220F help/short review

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First, a short review of my new 220F 20ga slug gun. It's short for reasons I'll get into in a bit. I opted for the camo model only b/c I would have painted the black stock anyway....saved me the time and money (duracoat ain't cheap) it would have taken to paint.

I added a Warne once piece rail, Burris Sig. Zee rings and a Nikon Slughunter 3-9x40 w/bdc. Overall, the package is light, shoulders great and feels just like a rifle. That's a huge change from the slug guns I'm used to.

Fit and finish are good. The camo stock has a nice finish that does seem to hide the mold lines. Can't really say the mold lines are better on this stock but they aren't as noticeable due to the camo. Accu-trigger is absolutely fabulous on a slug gun!! I mean FABULOUS! The oversize bolt handle is nice too.

The magazine is okay. I would have preferred a metal one but it works and it's light. Feeding was perfect from the mag but you do have to put the rear in and rock the mag forward and up to seat it. Not an issue once you get used to it.

Extraction was well....less than stellar. As long as you work the bolt like you mean it, it's fine. I also had a slight issue with fired shells hitting my front scope ring. I think a quick reposition of the front ring should solve that.

Now for accuracy and a cry for help:

Accuracy was okay. Nothing to write home about but I only got a chance to shoot Rem 2 3/4" Copper solids and the new Accu-tip. I had failure to fires with Winchester Dual bonds and Hornady SST's. At first, I thought the trigger might have been set too low. A quick change produced the same results....no boom.

At this point I'm thinking the Winchester ammo might be the culprit....tried another shell. Still no boom. Tired the Hornady SST's and still no boom. I'm getting frustrated so I go back to the Remington Copper Solid...BOOM! Hmmm......Throw in a Remington Accu-tip......BOOM, three times in a row.

The accu-tips shot very well too! Obviously, I've got an issue. I came back in a measured the firing pin protrusion. I got .031"

Overall, I'm happy with the gun. I think it'll shoot well and once I get this issue resolved, it'll get bedded and I'll try some 3" ammo along with the remaining 2 3/4" stuff I already have.

****Does anyone know what the firing pin spec should be on the 220F?

Oh crap! Finally got the rear bolt out to disassemble the whole bolt. To my surprise, the internals are far different from the Savage bolt action rifle.

Sharpshooter, I think I'm gonna need your help here!!!!!

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*Or should I be using nothing but 3" shells?

Had no failures to fire with mine or ejection issues as long as I worked the bolt like I meant it. Did take the bolt apart and managed to put it back together with no problems. I polished the black off of my bolt body. Seemed kinda soft and was dragging on the reciever and scratching it all to He!!, polished it to a mirror finish and now it's slicker than snot. Hornady SST's did not group well for me at all. Need to get some rem's and federals and give it another try.

EFBell,

Were you shooting 2 3/4" or 3" ammo? Oh, trigger guard is definitely metal...magnet sticks to it! ;D

May have to call Savage on the FTF issue......something is not right.

2-3/4" SST's and 3" winchester el cheapo rifled slugs to get on paper.

I took mine apart to clean and lube and put back together without a thorough exam but I dont remember seeing much you could do.

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I took mine apart to clean and lube and put back together without a thorough exam but I dont remember seeing much you could do.

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I know, I was hoping for something like the centerfire setup.....the shells that didn't go off only had a very slight dimple on 'em. I mean very slight.

I don't think there's any adjustment that can be made to the firing pin protrusion. It's all one piece with a spring at the back end.......weak spring maybe?

Oh well, I've got several actions in the safe and have never had an issue. Guess good 'ole Murphy caught up to me. I'm just glad I found the problem now and not real close to deer season!

Sharpshooter, I could really use your input here!!!

Shoot Fred a PM with a link to this thread as I don't think he looks in here very often.

looks like if you need more protrusion, you would have to take some length off the tail of the bolt head

My pin sticks out .050.

From the shoulder above the cocking pin it measures 5.755" to the tip. Should be a good reference number. My caliper is only a 6" so I could not measure total overall length accurately.

Wow! .050" vs. .031" is a very big difference.

Blue,

How would taking material of the tail of the bolt head increase protrusion? The bolt head is held in place by the pin......or does the tail stop the forward travel of the firing pin?

I am just guessing from your pictures, but it looks like the pin stops against the bolt head. If the tail of the bolt head were trimmed .o14 to let it travel more you would have .0450 protrusion. With out the parts in front of me to play with that is just a WAG :)

next thing to look at before doing anything, it there enough room for the cocking pin to travel that much in the decocked position?

I would contact Savage about it. Does the pin measure the same as mine? Either the pin is short, the bolt head is thicker, the slot is shallow for the cocking pin or other; such as bolt body too long, baffle too thick. on and on...

.031" is a bit short for a shotgun. Rim thickness will vary from brand to brand and I've seen the most problems with Winchester being the thinnest. If you look at the rim clearance cut in the barrel you will notice it is beveled. If a rim is slightly thinner and/or smaller in diameter it will change the heaspace more than just the difference in the thickness of the rim because it lets the rim drop deeper into the chamber. I would imagine the headspace is correct, even if it is on the big side of the tolerance.
The problem with the new fire control systym is there is no adjustment to the firing pins themselves. You will either have to turn some off the shoulder of the pin, or like Greg said, trim some from the back end of the bolt head, if you want to go that far. I'd call Savage first and ask about the protrusion, if it isn't right they most probably send you a new firing pin.
The firing pin spring is weaker than a centerfire version, that's why it cocks easier. Well, maybe not weaker, it's just shorter and has a different spring rate. Shot guns generate less pressure and need less support at the primer and that's why they can get away with that set-up.
I had an opportunity to visit with Chris Bezzina at the Shot show and he asked my opinion on this, as they were considering using the same system in the rifles.
He favored it because it make the guns cock easier, and cut pruduction costs. I made him aware of the fact that it may not work in a rifle from the standpoint of less primer support due to the fact of the difference in the spring. I also pointed out that it took away the adjustability factor which could compensate for problems just as you are having. Basically I was doing my best to talk him out of the idea.
No doubt that you have short firing pin protrusion, I'd bet on that for sure. You may have a weak spring, but I'll bet when the protrusion is correct the Winchester will light.

Great info Fred. Definately an interesting read.

Thanks Sharpshooter! Not ready to machine any parts at this time.

I'll get in touch with Savage asap to see if they can just send me some parts.

Will update once I get some info.

Thanks again!

Yeah, be sure to keep us updated on what they say, and the result of the fix too. I'm really considering cashing in on one of these(if I can sell my Remmy 870), just gotta have all you testers work out the bugs first...LOL

quick update: guess I'll call it part I

Called Savage this morning and explained the problem and advised I wanted to get a new firing pin and spring. No issue with getting the parts under warranty but Savage will only ship internal bolt parts to an FFL holder.

The lady I talked to was very polite and helpful. Soooo, I stopped off at the shop where I bought the gun and told the owner of my issue. He called Savage while I was there and faxed a copy of his FFL to Savage with a list of part numbers. Hopefully, I'll have the new stuff early next week.

While I was there, I took a peek at one of the new 220F's he had in stock. The firing pin obviously had more protrusion than mine and the tip was rounded....mine is flat at the end. Unlike NLPeaden, I don't carry a caliper in my pocket so I wasn't able to measure the protrusion but it was clearly longer looking at it with the naked eye. ;)

Part II update will have to wait until I get the new parts. So far, big kudos to Savage customer service.

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Originally Posted by trappst

quick update: guess I'll call it part I

Called Savage this morning and explained the problem and advised I wanted to get a new firing pin and spring. No issue with getting the parts under warranty but Savage will only ship internal bolt parts to an FFL holder.

The lady I talked to was very polite and helpful. Soooo, I stopped off at the shop where I bought the gun and told the owner of my issue. He called Savage while I was there and faxed a copy of his FFL to Savage with a list of part numbers. Hopefully, I'll have the new stuff early next week.

While I was there, I took a peek at one of the new 220F's he had in stock. The firing pin obviously had more protrusion than mine and the tip was rounded....mine is flat at the end. Unlike NLPeaden, I don't carry a caliper in my pocket so I wasn't able to measure the protrusion but it was clearly longer looking at it with the naked eye. ;)

Part II update will have to wait until I get the new parts. So far, big kudos to Savage customer service.

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Sounds like your pin was damaged somehow. Mine is rounded also.

Could somebody tell me the barrel thread and muzzle diameter on the 220F?

Couldn't tell you what the thread is but the muzzle "OD" is .808 by my caliper.

Ok, broken tip

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From the shoulder above the cocking pin it measures 5.755" to the tip. Should be a good reference number. My caliper is only a 6" so I could not measure total overall length accurately.

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Mine is 5.722"ish so I've definitely got a broken firing pin or something along those lines. If it did break, it's a clean break....very flat.

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Could somebody tell me the barrel thread and muzzle diameter on the 220F?

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Shank size should be the same as the large shank Savage. Although I can't confirm that or the pitch, etc.

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Originally Posted by trappst

Mine is 5.722"ish so I've definitely got a broken firing pin or something along those lines. If it did break, it's a clean break....very flat.

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I could be that is was turned on an automated machine and the piece of stock was slightly shorter than it was supposed to have been.

Well thats pretty close to "30 thou" shy. So I'm guessing we found the problem for sure.

Quick update: Part II

Got the new parts from Savage. I had them ship me a new firing pin and spring just in case. Got the new parts installed and the firing pin protrusion is now .051".

Unfortunately, I won't have time to do any more shooting for a few days so I'll confirm the fix once I put some more rounds down range.

Thanks again to all! BTW, Savage customer service was fabulous!

Steve, have you been out testing this bad boy yet?

Nope, I haven't had time. I did replace the medium Sig Zee rings with some high rings as the extracted shell was hitting the scope every once in a while.

I've got some 3" ammo ready to go but I just gotta find time to shoot.

Have you shot yours yet?

Yep, burnt up about 100 bucks in slugs already and it did not take long. Nothing spectacular yet, shooting about 1-3/4" at 100 best to date with federal 3" slugs. Got some 2-3/4" Barnes tipped remmys and some "big dollar" winny's to try next. Hornady's were all over the place at about 3-1/2 to 4". Swapped scopes as the bushnell 4200 was hitting me in the forehead. Put a VXII 3x9 on it and that solved the eye relief problem. Pretty stout recoil off the bench with this little bugger.

Ed,

Got out and shot the 220F a little yesterday. Firing pin problem is solved...every round went boom.

Ejection issues were solved with the high Burris Sig zee's.....still gotta work the bolt like ya mean it though.

Accuracy has been like yours. Nothing spectacular but mine likes the 2 3/4" Remington Accutips the best so far. Everything else I've tried has been kinda all over.

I'm still waiting on some 3" Accutips to try as well. I am gonna bed this one as the barrel isn't centered in the stock and I'll bet the recoil lug isn't making full contact on the pillar.

I'm looking to bed mine too. At least at the front pillar and lug.

Well, yesterday I joined you guys as a 220 owner. Course, you guys already know that cause Ive talked to you about it already...LOL Still gotta get the scope base for it, and may buy a Sightron S1 2.5-10 scope for it too.

First thing Im doing when I get home from work today is checking my firing pin protrusion ;). My bolt is dragging badly also from the matte finish on it, so Ill probably polish it this weekend like you did Ed.

Probably wont shoot it till I get to the Pa Shoot on June 26th though, as theres too much going on and I need to do some reloading for my other rifles in my spare time.

Anyone else on here have one of these guns, and if so how you likin it?

Finally took mine out to try it yesterday. I put a EGW base, Burris Sigzee medium rings, and a Leupold UltimateSlam 2-7x33 on it.
I tried the Remington 2 3/4" Accutips and it didnt like them at all. It shot a group of about 3-4".

So then I tried some Federal Premium 3" with the Barnes Expander, and it really likes them. They shot about 5 inches higher at 100yds compared to the 2 3/4 remmys, and man did it make this gun bark!!!! It shoots a 3foot flame outa the barrel and recoils noticable harder than the others. My group with this slug was an amazing 1.34" (center to center)@ 100yds. Not too bad for a shotgun, huh!

So with 1 slug left I let Pahog try to shoot the 15" metal gong out at 300 yds, using the ballistic reticle in my scope. TING!!!!!!!!!! He connected even though I had the power at the wrong setting for the drop reticle for that bullet(had it on 7x and it need to be on 4x). That was very promising for sure!! Come on deer season!

For you 220 owners, is the receiver itself a long action centerfire receiver with different internals? Or are the actions screws and trigger/magazine area different? I'm curious if you could restock one with a long action stock .....

Daaam! Mike, I shoulda had you shoot mine for me!

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Originally Posted by Tackdriver

For you 220 owners, is the receiver itself a long action centerfire receiver with different internals? Or are the actions screws and trigger/magazine area different? I'm curious if you could restock one with a long action stock .....

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It is based off of a long action, and I believe even has the same action screw spacing. But the ejection port is more like one on a target action, but longer. The bolt bodies are larger than a centerfire also.

Im not sure but I think you could restock it, but havent pulled mine apart yet to compare.

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Originally Posted by EFBell

Daaam! Mike, I shoulda had you shoot mine for me!

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No thanks. With those 3"ers shooting mine in was enough for me. Justin may have wanted to though.

Here ya go. I still have to adjust my windage, but wanted to see how it grouped so I left it like that and made the adjustment when I was done. Coulda made it a 5shot group, but wanted to use my last slug to hit the 300yd gong.


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How was the feeding and ejection?

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Originally Posted by EFBell

How was the feeding and ejection?

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feeding and ejection was perfect as long as you pulled the bolt back like you meant it. You couldnt go easy on it or it wouldnt spit it out. The bolt was stiff due to the matte finish on the bolt body(like yours), but it did ease up a tad after working it for a while. I will still polish it though.

Overall I really like it and am excited to hunt with it.

Hitting the 300yd gong with a 20 gauge slug was pretty sick to..!!! ;D

OK, what was that scope you bought again? LOL... I may just have to look into that.

Dang it guys! Mine is currently all taped up after bedding the front pillar and lug.......will be ready to come out this weekend. Hopefully the weather will be decent so I can get things sighted back in and continue my slug testing.

pdog06, weird yours didn't like the remington accutips......mine shot the federal 3" barnes like yours shot the remington. Was your barrel centered in the stock? Any idea on the torque you put on the action screws?

300 yard gong with a slug gun - that's impressive!!!!

How are you guys shooting from the bench? Are you holding the forearm at all?

***Hey pdog, I just noticed something. Were you shooting the regular Fed barnes load or the tipped barnes bullet loads? I've only shot the tipped version.

He forgot to mention the gong was about 36" in diameter. ::)

;D LMAO!

Well, the action came out of the stock. Now I just gotta do a little clean up and get this thing back together.

Is it November yet?

20" gong Ed-- There you go added inch's again.

Bwwaaaahahahahahahahahaaa!!!!! That's what she said......








oooops! ;D

You guys would know.... :o