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I received my EGW scope mount today and wanted to shoot my Model 10 FCP this weekend BUT as soon as I start one of the bolts it feels really tight.
Does anyone know if this is normal?
Does anyone know what the thread count is supposed to be?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Look in the hole and make sure there isnt any old dried locktite in the threads. If so you may have to clean the threads up.
It definately shouldnt be tight. It may not thread in with bare fingers just because they are virgin screws, but dont force it.
Do your old ones screw in OK?
wait a minute. Which bolt feels tight when you put it in. Just wanna make sure it isnt the from one and you're bottoming out against the barrel. Some bases have one screw that is shorter than the others so that dont happen.
This is a brand new gun and a brand new scope mount
None of the screws will go in more then one thread before they get tight
Shouldn't EGW be smart enough to put the right screws in with the mount?
I believe the standard screw holes are 6-48 thread.
Sure they are smart enough, but accidents do happen. I've never had an issue with their products.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boba Debt
Do you have another scope base screw you can try to see if it fits better? Maybe a spare or one off another gun?
They're 6-48s.Quote:
Originally Posted by pdog06
Bill
Thanks Bill. I just came back to edit it and you beat me to it.
I measured my bolts and they were 6-48s so I just forced one in. It was tight all the way but screwed down.
It didn't seem like these were going to stop turning so I just stopped when they were tight.
Watch that first one (over the barrel). They are often too long and bottom out before tightening against the base. Thats usuall the one I put in first so I'm sure it draws down tight.
This sounds very much like the wrong threads on the screws.
Well they fit my 6-48 thread gage. I had no way to check the rifle though.
hope this helps. i went thru several allen head screws before i bought a tap. savage does nothing to protect the threads when they coat the model 10s
if you have a model 10 you may have this stuff in the holes...
here it is before. notice the holes are dark, the threads are loaded with the coating they use on the rifle
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4387744217_0c15bbed65_b.jpg[/img]
so i run the tap thru and as you can see, there is quite a bit of schmootz in there. very few if any metal flakes came thru
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4387747743_ce6c540a7a_b.jpg[/img]
plenty of stuff still on the tap after taking it out.
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2774/4388507550_ab7b12daf6_b.jpg[/img]
notice the threads are now bright and shiney, all cleaned up
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4388531512_3df8312e1a_b.jpg[/img]
i dont worry so much about a certain torque setting going in. the nice thing about all that gunk in the threads is you never needed loctite. now i may use purple on it
[quote=Boba Debt ]
Well they fit my 6-48 thread gage. I had no way to check the rifle though.
[/quote
Go to the hardware store and get a 6-48 tap, they are cheap enough. There are different classes of fit (tolerances) in taps and hardware stores stock the loosest fit. Run the tap into the holes 1/4 turn at a time then back them off and turn in again, repeat that until your tap is through (except on the one over the barrel) to clean them out. Having one around to clean out loctite and crud when installing or changing mounts is handy to have. Blueing salts get in the holes and hardens when they dry off. Usualy has a white powdery look.
El Lobo
Have you tried to just thread the screws in without the base? The reason I ask is because I had the same problem yesterday with my fcp-k and EGW 20moa base. Turned out the holes didn't line up well at all, and it doesn't look like it's the EGW that is off, but rather the holes in the bolt carrier itself!?!?!? When I took the base back off and just screwed the screws into each hole they don't form a straight line, so it seems obvious to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boba Debt
Anyway, all I had to do was enlarge the two forward holes in the EGW base to a #21(5/32"). Then you have to get each screw started before attempting to tighten them down - takes a little finessing and sometimes turning the screw counter-clockwise to find the start of the threads can help a bit. Then snug the most aft bolt and most forward bolt, then torque them down then tighten the two inner bolts. Once I did this the base was securely mounted and straight.
buy a tap. clean out the holes. problem solved. its the coating from the barrel and action. you wont find a 6/48 in your hardware store either. i got mine off ebay. $6 delivered. dont mess with half assing it. i tried just running the screws in and out over and over. buy some torx head scope base screws. i heard from a few people that EGW was sending them out instead of hex heads now. if not brownells or ken ferrell sells them
So I guess the reciever is harder then the bolts?
I hope so. I'll remove the scope mount, get a tap and clean out the holes. then I'll replace the screws and hope my gun isn;t damaged.
Why did Savage select such a fine thread size?
At the very least a 6-32 would have been just as good and not as likly to get damaged.
hard to say which is harder, but since you have the barrel mounted you will need a bottoming tap to clean the front two holes. if you think a 6-48 is hard to find, a bottoming 6-48 is going to be fun. go slow, and get a tap handle. but a set and use the handle then return them if you have to. just watch how it goes in. you may get some of the gunk out by running the screws in and out. i did that and it was easier. until the screws had to come out, then i stripped out the heads on a few.
Tap. Torx. Ta-daa!
fine threads are stronger thats why fine threads exist and are used.
6-48 scope mount screws are the firearms industry standard. Not many hardware stores will have them, let alone know what they are for. They can be had at Brownells and many tool distibutors. Don't buy a cheap one, you'll get your moneys worth and alot more headaches.
There is no "coating" on the receiver, they are black parkerized. The reason the holes are gimped up is because the receivers are shot peened before finishing to give the matte look. Shot peening is similar to sand blasting, only they use steel shot instead of abrasive media. It has a tendancy to deform threads.
well i would still have to say its a coating of some sort. it came out of the threads on my tap. the threads were black before and shiney silver when i got done. but i am only familiar with the model 10FCP. i didnt think parkerizing was as textured as this, but that could be the shot peening. but there was some sort of something on the threads in my rifle
before
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4387744217_0c15bbed65_b.jpg[/img]
during
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4387747743_ce6c540a7a_b.jpg[/img]
after
[img width=600 height=400]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4388531512_3df8312e1a_b.jpg[/img]
it came with nothing in the holes to keep them clean. after i ran the tap thru them i could put the new base screws in with my fingers.
The screws come out of Connecticut
They are made from 4037
6-48 Rolled thread cold headed bolt 3/32 allen wrench.
We heat treated locally 39 to 41 Rc. Same as a US made socket head cap screw or grade 8 bolt. The last run was 1/4 million screws.
6-48 as stated is the industry standard for Rifle mounts. Std spread is often .862 from center to center. Dates back to Unertal blocks, maybe even before that.
We have run into this even in our own shop. We borrowed a rifle for a photo shot of the mount on a Savage and we could not install the mount without re tapping the holes. As with this gentleman it mostly removed gunk and a smig of metal.
Sorry to hear the guy that had to open up his holes to get the mount on his rifle.
Brownells, Ebay and MSC carry 6-48 taps, probalby Midway also. Of course if your on here good chance one of your buddies is a gunsmith and would have one for sure.
Thank you for your support. We have been fortunate to sell Many Many Savage mounts Most popular is the 20 moa SA for us.
We do offer the older Flat back mounts also if you are in need. The short medium and long action flat back.
have the print on the new Savage EDGE for a mount. It is Unique and no other Savage that we know of matches the bolt pattern.
If you get stuck, feel free to email if you need to check a bolt pattern or if you have a screw strip out and need a replacment.
best regards
geo
www.egwguns.com
i had no problem with the mount and went from a 0 moa to 20 moa and both were well finished. when i first got my mount i called and got screws. my first thought was my wrench then screws then i looked closer and the threads had this stuff on it. $7, a week and a positive ebay rating later, i had my tap. glad to hear EGW is making steel. i also like the longer mounts that you offer now. keep it up. oh and i heard there were torx heads in some mounts now. great idea. i like that better than hex, im sure im not the only one
The Tactical mounts include hex screws and a wrench with the mount packaging all for 39.99. They are machined from 6061 extruded T6 alunimum and anodized.
The HD mounts are Machined from solid, include torx screws and wrench, are a little lower and hard coat anodized for 69.99.
All our mounts extend past the receiver typically 5/8 of an inch or more.
Thank you
geo
www.egwguns.com
I ended up taking my rifle back to the shop I bought it from.
They tapped the holes, provided new Torx bolts and mounted it for $10.
Not a bad deal considering the cost if a tap and screws would have exceeded $10.
Glad you got it worked out. I wish I would have taken a picture of mine. the holes were clearly off, and it didn't appear to be the EGW base. Regardless, I got it sorted out...now, if only I can get better than 12 inch groups at 200 yards with this FCP-k ??? ???
if thats the group size you are getting i would call savage for some warranty work or somewhere i recall reading a guy had to take his action out and found that a screw was too long and was hitting his barre i think? there is a specific way to re-assemble the action and i am sure someone will post that link. but after he ground a screw down and put it all back together, his groups dropped to what they should have been. i read way too much stuff to recall the specifics and i dont have an accustock so i dont commit as much data regarding the accustock to memory. i would not think ammo would cause that big of a group, but i could be wrong. anyway taking the action out is free and a good place to start. maybe it was a sling stud screw?
Turned out it was the ammo, not the gun. Turns out that, while my PMC 223 ammo works great, considering the price, their .308 stuff is useless. Don't know if 147 grain bullets are too light for the barrel twist or what.
Took the gun back to the range and warmed up the barrel with about 15 rounds of PMC for a 3-4" group at 100 yards, then switched to Hornady 168g match ammo. What a difference!!! Shot 5 groups, one 5 round, the rest 3-round. The first 3 round group was almost 1MOA, two more were sub-MOA, and one was close to 1/2MOA! The 5 round group woulda been a 1 MOA had it not been for that one flier, but I was shooting off a bench with a bipod up front and just my left hand for elevation. Gimme a some sandbags and some padding on my cheek rest to absorb some of the displacement from my heartbeat and I could probably shoot sub-moa all day long - Love this gun!
Nice presentation AxemanQuote:
Originally Posted by axaviere
thanks, anytime i can combine two or more hobbies i jump at the chance. plus if i can save one person the hassle i went thru. how much would the 4 screws cost savage to keep the holes clean?? i let them know how i felt about dropping that much coin on something i had to buy a tap to clean up