Are any of the barrel makers chambering barrels in this caliber?
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Are any of the barrel makers chambering barrels in this caliber?
I bet someone will, I have not even seen anybody making reamers for it yet. I bet it won't be till late 2014 before we see one outside of the shot show. I wonder what it actually is, 375 ruger parent case maybe? I bet it is a barrel cooker, I can't think of that much speed not being one. the 6.5x284 is 2800-3000 fps and maybe stretch 1500 rounds though it. Picking up 400~ FPS over the Norma I bet that would be a short barrel life. I am still intrigued by the screamer, but I don't know if it is enough to try it.
I don't think its really anything new? These days everybody wants on the 6.5 bandwagon. Plenty to choose from already.
+1 plenty of other cartridges out there that meet or come very close to this performance already. 6.5-300wsm 6.5-06 ackley 6.5 saum. Heck even the 264 win mag is pretty close. I dont see the need for reinventing the wheel. 6.5s are growing in popularity though and I am happy to see that.
I didn't think it was anything impressive, my Sin gets ~300fps on it and the 6.5wsm will match it or better it. I will probably end up with a reamer if the demand is there. Shot show is in a month and I bet Dave has prints and probably grinding reamers for it.
I read a thread on the L/R hunting site, supposedly from an insider the round was based on a 404 Jeffery case. At any rate you'd better have a new barrel in your back pocket if you are prone to shoot it much. I agree with Sinman, do a 6.5 WSM and have no where near the issues. The advertised velocity of the Nosler may be fast, but who cares how fast you miss. Accuracy is the name of the game.
If that's the case, it's just a 6.5 Dakota with Noslers name on it. Nothing that hasn't been done before, yawn.Quote:
Originally Posted by EOD350
http://www.26nosler.com/_images/charts/cartridge.png
Here is the cartridge measurements directly from the Nosler web site. Go to this link and then scroll down past the video. http://www.26nosler.com Yeah.....I'm thinking a new barrel is "needed".
Dave
Well....except maybe you don't have to spend monster dollars on a Dakota....and you will now have a source for brass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotolds442
BTW, below is the Dakota 7MM that Dakota says MV is 3400fps from a 24" barrel:
http://www.ballisticstudies.com/site...ta%20final.jpg
7mm Dakota
A .545
B .545
C 30 deg
D .531
E .315
F 1.980
G .333
H 2.500
Max Case 2.510
Trim length 2.500
That's why I think my 6.5 build is going to be a 6.5wsm.
with what bullet weight on the 7mm dakota dave?
im in that area with my 7x300 weatherby with a 162 hornady.
about 3200 with a 180. that in a 27"barrel.
the reason my 6.5 wsm went down the road.
I went to the Dakota web site to find the info on the 6.5 Dakota and couldn't find anything. All I could find was the 7mm Dakota....so I figured it had to be somewhat close to the 6.5 Dakota. That's the only reason I posted it. Then I figured some 'inquiring mind" such as you would ask why I posted that!! :) I thought the 6.5 Dakota was their proprietary cartridge as I'm not familiar with it. But, from the limited search I've done it appears to be a wildcat cartridge. Resellable to those rifle loonies (like me) who get way too far into ballistic "stuff". Not a bad thing....less money that a '65 Mustang fastback!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
The 7X300 is a barn burner as well. I'm not a fan of any belted cartridge. Just for the reason they can get jammed up during a fast bolt reload. And when your hunting...when do you actually do a slow bolt reload? But, the dislike of a belted cartridge is just a personal preference on my part. Has nothing to do with the cartridge performance.
Dave
the argument over belted and non belted is a never ending situation. ive never had nor have i ever seen a stuck case due to a belt.
i have had cases stuck without a belt however. its the main reason i full legnth resize my cases.
i carry a rod with me in my jeep at all times for that purpose. also several size bronze brushes.
i make it a practice of chambering every round i take hunting with me on the larger rifles. the best thing would be to dispose of the
cases for hunting after the third firing at most. ill admitt to being lax about that. i have a hunting buddy who uses colored sharpies
for keeping track of times loaded by coloring the primer. i bought sharpies and intend to start doing that. i had 2 case failures this
past season while firing at animals. fortunatly both extracted without incident. i was never much of a fan about annealing but i am now.
age of brass is no doubt as much an issue as times fired. especially with the reshaped cases of wildcats.
Yeah, I don't really have an argument about 'em. A buddy of mine has a 7mm mag and a few years ago I watched his second round jam because of the belted case. Well...I don't wanna argue about it, but even he though it was the belt that was the issue. Meh!
If I were to move up to a 7mm, I'd probably go to the 7mm Ultra Mag. But...OTOH, I really have no use for such a rifle. In fact, I really don't "need" a Nosler 26....and honestly, it will probably be in the "future get" column anyway. But...I do like the idea of having a 6.5mm cartridge to load up and whack a groundhog or even a crow with a flat shooting 129 or 130gr. bullet.
Besides....I can just stock up on one caliber of bullet!!!
Dave
Now what kinda fun would that be dave only one caliber of bullets , sometimes you need to let the mad scientist in you loose, besides everyone needs more quaility time in the labratory. seriously though the 26 nosler looks interesting shoots flat to 400 more research is most certainly needed I do like the 6.5 so l am sure if it can do what there sayin a new barrel is in the future
well it certainly is stirring up some excitment and that cant be all bad.
it all depends on what your interest are as to how these things work for you.
my guns are all for hunting and fall into two catagories. one for varmits and one for larger animals.
for me the 6.5 is appealing but falls into sort of a grey area. maybe more than needed for varmits
and not quite enough for the larger animals at the distances i shoot. years back before all the technical
stuff we now have we had a simple approach for picking the best gun.
sight them in at a hundred then dont touch the scope. now lets go shoot at a rock on a hillside at about a 1000 yds.
if mine lands higher on the hill than yours i win. that tends to seperate the bc from the bs.
Hey guys I'm a new member to the site... I'm from oklahoma and I'm a huge deer and turkey hunter. I'm wanting to build a custom rifle but have never even attempted to start one... I really need some help from you guys! I want a rifle that is very accurate and One that can reach out to 600-800 yards comfortably... My email is dromines14@gmail.com... I would greatly appreciate someone working with me and helping me out. Thanks
reaching out to 800 yds would be relativly easy for many of todays cartridges. its from that point out that would
be more challenging with cartridge choice and frankly shooter ability
assuming were on the same page and you are talking about hunting? you certainly couldnt go wrong with any of the 6.5 offerings from savage and others for what your describing.
as for a custom gun i wouldnt reccomend doing that at least initially. once you get your legs under you and find
out for sure where your needs are that could change. then again it may never change. the rem sendero has been
extremly popular with long range shooters. some of the savage models could do likewise. you will spend far more time
"hunting" than shooting. how you do that will be far more important than the gun you use. its a totaly different concept
and thought process. it can also get very boring which is why some very good hunters dont like doing it.
if you like marlin fishing you could well like long range hunting. sometimes days maybe a whole season seeing nothing to shoot at.
hopefully the boredom will be occaisionaly interupted by chaos. controlling the chaos is the important part. go slowly, try to go with
someone else on their boat first before ordering one of your own.
http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/w...h/375Ruger.jpg
Here's the case dimensions (above) of the 375 Ruger
And below are the case dimensions of the Nosler 26.....
http://www.26nosler.com/_images/charts/cartridge.png
I'm not the guy who did the research.....but thru Google I did find where someone of a gun background stated this was the rumor.....that the N-26 parent case is the 375 Ruger. Looks like it's close....and perhaps could be made from the 375 brass.
BTW....go to this link: http://www.26nosler.com/_media/26Nos...ts_Low-Res.pdf and you will get the N-26 velocity\energy and bullet drop comparisons to a pile of different calibers....including 7mm with heavier bullets. Compare the bullet drops using the 200 yard zero chart and the results are impressive.
Dave
That chart is pretty flawed as it fails to give any kind of apples to apples comparison. First of all they are using their overly inflatted bc for the ALR and comparing that to standard accu bonds and partitions which are completely different bullet designs. If they were to compare to bullets of similar designs and use an actual bc the numbers would not be so bent in favor of the 26 Nosler. But they are trying to sell the public on their fancy new cartridge so they are going to do what they can to make theirs look better.
Just like back in the day when only gun rags had chronographs. Technology is too far advanced today for a manufacturer to make outlandish claims. Many people have chronographs now, if a manufacturer stretches claims of velocity, it's not too long before they're busted. Same thing holds true with a given bullet's BC. There's software out there that can calculate the BC of a bullet with only the starting velocity, the zero point, and the drop at a given range. Exaggerate too much and you're busted!
I would agree with you. But I'm not sure if your saying that Nosler is putting out false information on this new cartridge? Really? Anything is possible.....but I would seriously doubt a company with this recognition in the shooting industry would come out with false information on the introduction of it's first cartridge. Really?.....Really???Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotolds442
Dave
No, what I'm saying is they're not going to toss their reputation by making false velocity or ballistic claims.
Its been proven on more than one occasion that Nosler does in fact inflate BCs. The last winters issue of the varmint hunter magazine being the latest and most in depth article on the subject. Issue #81 if memory serves me correctly. Simple math reveals that the ALR requires a much lower form factor than even the slickest vld design to achieve the claimed .561 bc. On average Nosler over estimates bc by over 6% and as high as close to 20% in some cases. They even go as far as listing the same bc for ballistic tips and accubonds of the same weight and caliber even though they have different boat tail angles and bearing surface dimensions. Nosler is in a word lazy and by far the worst in the business when it comes to trust worthy ballistics data. No company is perfect but at least the other companies try to do a reasonable ammount of testing.
Meh
Give it a test and see. Shoot a Nosler bullet of your choosing out to at least 600 yards using the advertised bc and see what happens. Ive done it and I know what happens. I even have a pdf copy of the article if you would like to read it for yourself.
http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA554683
this pretty much sums up what Stomp is referring to.
That report is 4 years old.
I am kinda interested in the 26 Nosler, but it looks like a large action would be mandatory, if not a 110BA action.
Yep nosler uses their BC only at highest velocity. If you look at Sierra bullets for example, G1 BC changes with velocity. An example of sierra bullets would be that the say(for a given bullet) that BC=.5 over 3200fps, .486 between 2800-3200, and .445 below 2800. Nosler only uses the high number. so you shot long range and think you BC is a .5, but averaged over 800 yards it is .46. So they are telling the truth, they just leave out the little fact that G1 BC changes with velocityQuote:
Originally Posted by stomp442
Problem is that when they only list the high number its still ungodly high because its pushed as fast as they can get it to go. I called them one time looking for more information on their 25 cal 85 grain ballistic tip as I was wanting to load some in my 250 savage. I was interested in what velocity the BC was tested so that I could see if I could achieve that with my little savage. They told me the bullet was tested using a 25-06 at a velocity of 3400fps out to 100 yards. So in other words I had no hopes of even coming close that with my 250. Nosler really needs to at least start implementing bullet testing at median velocity ranges to better give us an idea of what's actually going on. Because as it is now, anyone shooting that bullet in anything smaller than a 25-06 is only fooling themselves and Nosler is laughing all the way to the bank.
Yep this is basically the same article that was published in the varmint hunter magazine. It may be four years old but it remains just as true today as it was then as Nosler has changed nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotolds442
Wow are you serious? I knew they fudged the numbers a little, but didnt know it was to that extent. After i realised about noslers bogus numbers, i havent bought any of their bullets since. makes me wonder how game animals were wounded or missed due to this? Stomp- Go look at the published BCs for the new accubond long range bullets if you want a good laugh. They are just so unbleivable its almost funny. They probably tested thier bullets at 10000 feet altitube in 100 degrees and necked 50 BMG down to the different bullet diameters to get 5500 fps for ttesting
Oh I know. I've been calling bs on their numbers ever since the press release came out on those.
Another one that's really bad is the 55gr 6mm ballistic tip. They claim a higher BC for that bullet than the 22 cal ballistic tip of the same weight even though the 22 cal is a longer and smaller diameter bullet. I called them on this as well and they told me the BC is so high because it was tested at a higher velocity than the 22 cal bullet. When I asked them what velocity and cartridge they told me .243 win and 3900fps. Wow. Nothing like making apple and orange comparisons. I've since tested this bullet and its 22 cal counterpart out to 600 yards using a 24" 22-250 loaded with a published max load of Varget and a 24" 243 loaded with a published max load of Varget . The 22-250 gave me a velocity of 3683 and the 243 gave me a velocity of 3633. With both rifles zeroed at 200 yards the 243 shot about 3-4" lower at 600 yards than the 22-250. According to my results I gustimate the BC of the 6mm 55gr ballistic tip having a BC somewhere around .227-.230 a far cry from the published .267
you can hardly blame Nosler for a missed or wounded animal if someone didn't test their load before trying it on game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke45
Yes very true. It still is very annoying that they embellish their numbersQuote:
Originally Posted by the Ranger
agreed.
I talked to a couple guys from Nosler at the shot show and the round has been Sammi approved; Iirc I was told by them that is was based of the 404 Jeffrey but since it is Sammi approved it's not considered a wild cartridge.
The round would require you to have it built around a long action and it is most definitely a barrel burner! We ordered a reamer for my work and it came in last week, I am working on getting a 700 magnum action to build one with, once I have it done I will post the results here.
Russell
I wonder how much Nitriding might help the barrel burning.
I am not sure of a round count, but having it nitrided will without a doubt extend the life of the barrel, keep in mind that the coating only penetrates the surface a small amount!Quote:
Originally Posted by sha-ul
Stomp is right-on in his thoughts on this(in terms of false advertising). I did a post about this on another board,with trajectory charts posted as well. The thing that is really funny to me, is Noslers velocity numbers. Ignoring the velocity claims about the new cartridge, the velocity numbers for the other cartridges are notably lower than their own data shows...
I'm all for someone wanting something new and exciting to them, but at least look at your own reloading data first.
Don't pander the sheep by telling them this will shoot so flat that you suddenly don't have to learn your trajectory, or drops. Just be up front, and say the truth; something like: if ultra flat trajectory excites you, this is flatter shooting than several other choices.
Just got my issye of Shooting Times. Big cover pix of the 26Nosler. Way too much for anything I'd ever use it for,,,,,,
FYI
ron