Problems with new 11 Trophy Hunter

Hi, new to the forum here and I have a few problems with my rifle so far. First off, I have not fired the rifle as I just picked it up yesterday.

1.) My first problem is with the bolt. While cycling rounds through it the first time it was fine and worked flawlessly. Now it gets harder to close when a round is going into the chamber and when opening the chamber. When there are no rounds being cycled it opens and closes with ease. Dry firing it has a little tension coming back up but nowhere near as much as when a round is being cycle. It feels like as if it's grinding on something but I can't tell what it is. I have removed the scope mount and screws and even the front screw that holds the rifle to the stock and still the same problem. I even colored the bullet with a marker to see where it was scratching and it shows 1 thin line from a little after the tip and ends about 3/4 down and several scuffs near where the bullet meets the casing. (no pictures at the time since I am at work) Looking down the barrel from the chamber end with a flashlight shows nothing sticking out. (even with all the screws in tight.)

2.) Looking at youtube videos about the bolt disassembly i noticed that my internals are actually the same as the axis model and not the 11 shown here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoPtHPjt2c8
any ideas if the maybe changed the design?

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated
Thank you in advance

Cal? Reloads or factory rounds? Sounds like cartrige OAL is too long and you are pushing the bullet into the lands OR headspace on the cartrige is too tight. To test the bullets, you can smoke a bullet with a candle and chamber it, remove it and inspect for land marks in the soot. If it isn't that then it is more than likely headspace.

The ammo being used is Prvi Partizan FMJ BT 145gr .308
Would smoking the bullet be the same as coloring it with a permanent marker to see where it rubs off?. If not, how do I do it safely? I feel like fire and live ammo might dangerous.
Unfortunately I do not own calipers so I cant really check the OAL

Try an empty cartridge if you want to see if head space is the issue.

What do I look for with the empty cartridge? I'll have to take one apart since I don't have any spent casings.
I can easily push a round into the barrel and it will slide out no problem. It seems like when the bolt pushes it is when the problem occures. Don't know if that helps.

Espo it was suggested that the bullet tip may be touching the lands. By testing an empty cartridge this removes the lands issue and just look at the headspace aspect. You need to test for two issues. It helps to test individually. If it cycles easily with an unloaded cartridge then it points to the bullet hitting the lands. At least that would be my advice from my limited experience. Later today you may get some suggestions from shooters with more dealings with headspace issues.

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Originally Posted by Espo

The ammo being used is Prvi Partizan FMJ BT 145gr .308
Would smoking the bullet be the same as coloring it with a permanent marker to see where it rubs off?. If not, how do I do it safely? I feel like fire and live ammo might dangerous.
Unfortunately I do not own calipers so I cant really check the OAL

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Completely safe. All you are doing is sooting the datum of the bullet. Just hold your bullet portion of the cartrige directly in a candle flame and give it a twist. It will soot up nicely. Only takes a second and is completely safe. Perm marker may work but will take much more contact to show evidence. I would also pick up another box of something standard US manufactured as well and see what those do. A little cam-over with your bolt is fine as long as it is headspace and isn't bullet into the lands. This can cause irratic pressure situations that you just don't want.

Back at you... Is this rifle new? The empty case test will not work unless it has been sized to sammi standards. If you do the soot test and find it is NOT the bullet into the lands (which I would kind of doubt anyway using such a light bullet) and when you chamber those rounds you can completely close the bolt with maybe some cam-over but not having to overly force the bolt shut), next thing you want to do is test fire it and check the extraction. If extraction is smooth then you may just have a tight rifle headspace wise. That is fine but may be picky on some ammunition. If you have extraction difficulties then you need to have the chamber checked and barrel re-headspaced.

The rifle is brand new I just got it Saturday and went through the barrel with a jag and some hoppes #9 and lubricated it with remoil. I will try what u guys mentioned and report back later today as I just got off work and will need to catch up on some Zzz

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Originally Posted by Jetpig

Completely safe. All you are doing is sooting the datum of the bullet. Just hold your bullet portion of the cartrige directly in a candle flame and give it a twist. It will soot up nicely. Only takes a second and is completely safe. Perm marker may work but will take much more contact to show evidence. I would also pick up another box of something standard US manufactured as well and see what those do. A little cam-over with your bolt is fine as long as it is headspace and isn't bullet into the lands. This can cause irratic pressure situations that you just don't want.

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Okay so I did the soot test and all I see now is that single line from the beginning to the end of the bullet. It stops a little before it reaches the case. It also seems a lot easier to load and unload. I can now easily do it with my index finger and thumb. But not as easy as an empty chamber. Is this normal for a new bolt action,my only other experience with rifles is a Mosin but I cleaned the hell out of it and never had the sticky bolt issue.

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Originally Posted by Jetpig

Completely safe. All you are doing is sooting the datum of the bullet. Just hold your bullet portion of the cartrige directly in a candle flame and give it a twist. It will soot up nicely. Only takes a second and is completely safe. Perm marker may work but will take much more contact to show evidence. I would also pick up another box of something standard US manufactured as well and see what those do. A little cam-over with your bolt is fine as long as it is headspace and isn't bullet into the lands. This can cause irratic pressure situations that you just don't want.

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Okay so I did the soot test and all I see now is that single line from the beginning to the end of the bullet. It stops a little before it reaches the case. It also seems a lot easier to load and unload. I can now easily do it with my index finger and thumb. But not as easy as an empty chamber. Is this normal for a new bolt action,my only other experience with rifles is a Mosin but I cleaned the hell out of it and never had the sticky bolt issue.
O and I can't get a good picture because my phone won't focus on the bullet

Thanks everyone for your help...I went through all the rounds and found that 13 out of the 40 I have are extremely hard to cycle. Looks like I won't be buying prvi partisan any time soon...too bad, its the cheapest around here in Los Angeles :mad:

O but that line still shows...maybe it'll go away after a few rounds

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Originally Posted by Espo

Thanks everyone for your help...I went through all the rounds and found that 13 out of the 40 I have are extremely hard to cycle. Looks like I won't be buying prvi partisan any time soon...too bad, its the cheapest around here in Los Angeles :mad:

O but that line still shows...maybe it'll go away after a few rounds

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I'm a novice shooter myself--but a long symetric line down the case/bullet sounds odd--my question would be does it do it on other brands of ammo/cases as well? Are the hard-cyclings/lines happening from both hand feeds into the chamber as well as the magazine--I'm thinking there may be a problem in the process of stripping the round from the mag and going into the chamber? When you extract there's a sideways torque anyway.

One other thing--I personally never use budget ammo to break-in a new rifle--odds of irregular production stuff causing problems early on go way up IMO.

Its the PPU ammo. The stuff is ****. I had the same problem with my .308 11VT.

Oddly enough their 5.56 battlepack ammo shoots great out of my AR's--and the brass is generally very good. I bought some of their 380 acp and it was terrible, flew every which way even at very close range and metal jacket fragments often came flying back at me after impacting the target.

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Originally Posted by thermaler

I'm a novice shooter myself--but a long symetric line down the case/bullet sounds odd--my question would be does it do it on other brands of ammo/cases as well? Are the hard-cyclings/lines happening from both hand feeds into the chamber as well as the magazine--I'm thinking there may be a problem in the process of stripping the round from the mag and going into the chamber? When you extract there's a sideways torque anyway.

One o ther thing--I personally never use budget ammo to break-in a new rifle--odds of irregular production stuff causing problems early on go way up IMO.

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Just tried it again by hand and it goes in easily but that line is still there. Whish I could post a picture but I can't get a good focus on it and they all come out blurred beyond recognition...what brand would you suggest? All I can seem to find during this shortage are prvi partisan, federal eagle, and the real expensive stuff that's about 36 dollars for a box of 20 down at big 5 and my local gun stores. And that's if it's not all sold out

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Originally Posted by Espo

Just tried it again by hand and it goes in easily but that line is still there. Whish I could post a picture but I can't get a good focus on it and they all come out blurred beyond recognition...what brand would you suggest? All I can seem to find during this shortage are prvi partisan, federal eagle, and the real expensive stuff that's about 36 dollars for a box of 20 down at big 5 and my local gun stores. And that's if it's not all sold out

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308 is getting a bit easier to find and you should really seek some good stuff out for breaking your rifle in--whats a few extra bucks compared to erratic breaking in of your 500 dollar or so rifle? You're probably going to want to get your scope zeroed as well. As far as factory ammo goes--the most consistently accurate shooting factory production ammo across all calibers I have ever used is federal gold medal matchking. Expense is a relative thing--quality ammo tends to take fewer rounds to get your scope dialed in. After that "good enough" can be used to get you to the 100 bullets down the tube--anything hornady, most of the better quality win, rem and federal can be used as well. Collect your used brass and get into reloading and you will discover your rifle's real potential.

Your line problem is funky--but it's interesting that you say the difficulty or "hardness" isn't there when you handload into the chamber. I'd get a different brand ammo with a different type of bullet--something like an A-max or Accubond that will likely have a different bullet profile. This is pure conjecture on my part--but repeat the same actions that you did with the PPU and then measure-- if the line appears again--where it is relative to the base of the cartridge. If it's exactly the same length and same position in the OAL as the PPU--then I'm guessing it's not your chamber's throat/lands doing the damage. But again--that's my guess. I'd also take a close look at your magazine and make sure you're fully engaging it front and back and that nothing is out of the ordinary with it.

I feel confident you'll figure this out and all will be well. There are many great calibers that do many things well--but there is nothing as versatile and adaptable as 308 win IMO. : )

PS: while I'm throwing wild guesses out--I'm beginning to think (asumming you're positive the chamber itself has no irregularies--keep in mind it's not unusual for machining filings to remain in a gun upon delivery) something might be going on with the bolt on extraction--you eliminated the magazine possibility with the hand-feed.

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Originally Posted by thermaler

308 is getting a bit easier to find and you should really seek some good stuff out for breaking your rifle in--whats a few extra bucks compared to erratic breaking in of your 500 dollar or so rifle? You're probably going to want to get your scope zeroed as well. As far as factory ammo goes--the most consistently accurate shooting factory production ammo across all calibers I have ever used is federal gold medal matchking. Expense is a relative thing--quality ammo tends to take fewer rounds to get your scope dialed in. After that "good enough" can be used to get you to the 100 bullets down the tube--anything hornady, most of the better quality win, rem and federal can be used as well. Collect your used brass and get into reloading and you will discover your rifle's real potential.

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True. You pay for what u get. That's why I went with the 11 instead of the axis. As far as the reloading goes that is something I wanna get into but after I've collected enough brass. I guess I'll cough up some extra money and try it out. Thanks guys for your advice

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Originally Posted by Espo

True. You pay for what u get. That's why I went with the 11 instead of the axis. As far as the reloading goes that is something I wanna get into but after I've collected enough brass. I guess I'll cough up some extra money and try it out. Thanks guys for your advice

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Well, don't knock the axis 308--mine does this without to much work LOL
[IMG]http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...psb55a9d74.jpg[/IMG]
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...ps73e45d12.jpg
http://i1049.photobucket.com/albums/...ps41bd239c.jpg

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Originally Posted by thermaler

Oddly enough their 5.56 battlepack ammo shoots great out of my AR's--and the brass is generally very good. I bought some of their 380 acp and it was terrible, flew every which way even at very close range and metal jacket fragments often came flying back at me after impacting the target.

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Lol! You must have angered the Gods earlier that day.

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Originally Posted by Mach2

Lol! You must have angered the Gods earlier that day.

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Have you ever shot PPU 380 acp? It's the only ammo I know of that you have to use dental floss after shooting. : )

Espo after reading this thread I think your new rifle is not the problem at all.
Also: I know from recent experience polishing the bolt lug guides on an old Mauser that even the slightest bit of metal dust or just plain dust period, will result in sticky bolt cycling. I was shocked how little dust it took to cause rough bolt cycling. Just wiping off the bolt and bolt rail guides with an oily rag will still leave enough impurities to make the bolt cycling rough. I started spraying out the action and the bolt before I retested the cycling.
In fact, just the usual amount of dirt or dust contamination in the typical rifle carry case will make cycling act sticky.
I'll bet if you try some quality ammo and spraying out your receiver/bolt you will find you've fixed the prob.

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Originally Posted by thermaler

PS:-keep in mind it's not unusual for machining filings to remain in a gun upon delivery)

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He is dead right. In fact, since it's new just the repetitive bolt cycling probably circulated enough micro filings to gum up the cycling. Spray that sucker out and enjoy your finely crafted Savage.

Thanks guys...wil do. I'll be in front of the t.v cycling it till my arm gets sore lol
Ima head out to ammobros and see what quality ammo they have in stock since the turners near me is bone dry.(except for some surplus and 12ga)
Hopefully with a good amount of practice I can post up some groups like yours...thermaler...

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Originally Posted by Espo

Thanks guys...wil do. I'll be in front of the t.v cycling it till my arm gets sore lol
Ima head out to ammobros and see what quality ammo they have in stock since the turners near me is bone dry.(except for some surplus and 12ga)
Hopefully with a good amount of practice I can post up some groups like yours...thermaler...

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The good news is--I'm not even a very good shot--have bad eyes and not the best technique. But persistence in hand-loading will get you there--and beyond. : )

I too have a new Trophy Hunter .308 and had this exact same problem the other day. I was shooting it for the first time the other day and was shooting Remington Core-lokts and Hornady Whitetails. The Core-lokts chambered very smooth, while the Hornadys were noticeably harder to get the bolt to close. I'm glad I found this thread and and confirmed my suspicion that it was just the ammo.