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Wondering about taking the stock bolt handle and heating it up to reshape it and forge out the ball to lengthen the handle. I am building an Axis bullpup and I would like to extend the bolt handle longer and angle it forward. Figured once it was drawn out, then I could thread the end and screw a knob on the end.
Just didn't know how that alloy would react to being forged and reshaped. Anyone know if it is cast or forged to make it?
:thumb:Final project pics towards the end:cool:
It is cast, I am almost certain. I know the 110 series Savage knobs are. Do a search here and read through the (probably) hundreds of threads on bolt handles. There are some options available to retro fit the Axis to a "Tactical" style knob that you seek.
I found the alloy somewhere on line....but I can't remember what it was. Some alloys respond better to being reheated and messed with after being cast.....but I don't know about this one. I remember it wasn't an alloy I was familiar with.
I found this on another forum I was thinking of sending mine in.
http://forum.pafoa.org/rifles-42/207...b-install.html
Not sure how they do it though.
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That looks pretty good but I would like it to angle forward....I'm afraid that is going to involve heat to make it happen. Wondered about cutting it at the bend, and repositioning it and TIG welding it back together. I still would like to draw out that knob into a longer stem and put a knob on the end.
I wonder how much that part is if a tear it up.
Take a look here. I just found these today and am thinking of sending my bolt in for some custom work. Look in the "bolt parts" section.
http://www.sharpshootersupply.com
Unfortunately those bolt handles don't work on the Axis......you can install them, but they don't work right from what I have read.
Is it because those are meant for the 110's?
Yes they will bolt on, but they aren't right when it comes to extraction....is my understanding. I haven't tried it myself, but it is covered in Axis FAQ.
That is my thread from above. Here is a better picture of the bolt knob.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y21...ps5d3a561f.jpg
The blued bolt handles are cast from 8620, the stainless are cast from 410. I've turned enough knobs off to know that it is very likely you will find a porosity void about the size of a BB in the middle of the knob.
Thanks for the info, I had found it once before, but I couldn't locate the source when I looked this time. I knew it was an alloy that was not familiar to me. I wonder if there is a chance of heating that up cherry red and just changing the angle of the dangle to slightly forward without messing up those cavities? Then I could turn the knob down and make big knob however long it needed to be.
You can do it.
They are only about $11 to order a replacement on the savage website. Was just looking today
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That makes it easier to experiment, I can risk $11.
I would order another just in case and if it works out well maybe you can hook me up too lol! I keep thinking about sending mine off to Phoenix Customs, but didn't really want to let go off $100 to do so.
Forging is usually done at temperatures quite a bit hotter than cherry red, which I think may be a dubious yardstick in and of itself. It also may be prudent to heat treat after forging to remove the stresses that forging imparts. The bolt handle doesn't really suffer too much abuse in normal operation, but the last thing I'd want is a broken one.Quote:
Originally Posted by daviscustom
Sharpshooter's right about the void in the knob. When I was tapping mine for my epoxy knob project, I could feel the empty space with both the drill and tap.
Yes I am a little concerned about it getting brittle after it cools. Thinking at this point I may just try changing the angle in that skeletonized area and just grind down the ball and thread the end. Probably try to have a container of hot sand to cool it down in after I'm done.
This is a great way to draw attention to yourself from the moderators and/or get a thread like this shut down fairly quick. Not only does it put the OP in an uncomfortable and probably unwanted position, but you've also set him up to potentially violate the rules here depending on his response to that request.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Understood, I will leave it at that!
I am hoping to get time this afternoon to try reshaping the bolt handle.....will see how it goes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Rebel
LMAO.... Thanks Stang.Quote:
Originally Posted by stangfish
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Well the answer is "YES" of course the bolt handle can be forged and reshaped.
I heated the handle at the different bends that were cast into it, and first took the bends out that I didn't want and then curved it forward. I started out to try and draw the knob out into a longer stem, but it was pretty hot today and everything had gone so well up to this point I decided to stop before I tore something up. I did forge it into something close to a cylinder before I quit, but I don't think I gained much length. I made a quicky aluminum knob for it, but I think I will likely make some changes to it before I call it done. It makes the action much easier to cycle and the extra leverage pretty much eliminates any concerns about the bolt lift issues.
I will take some pics and get them uploaded ASAP.
Here you go.....going to take it to work and bead blast it tomorrow and then reblue it with Oxpho-blue.
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps313c8fc6.jpg
Here is a pic in the action and the bullpup stock "in progress".....going to try to do all the inletting I can before doing any final cosmetic shaping, so no it won't end up looking much like a funky shaped 2" thick board.
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps018e93c8.jpg
That looks sweet man. What length of barrel do you intend to use in the bullpup design?
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BullPUP Wolfman Bull PUP!
"Bullpen" is probably the least unflattering "bull-" adjective he could've used!
Nice work on the handle and cool project! I'm not a fan of bullpups, but I am always amazed at how people get projects like that to work. Is that an AR magazine too?
Thanks guys.......it should end up being a 16.5" barrel. Subsonic 458 Socom doesn't really benefit from a longer barrel so OAL on this little thumper is going to be just a little over the 26" minimum.
DrThunder88: yes it is an AR mag and AR mag latch with a redesigned mag release button. Planning to make the forward trigger hardware so that it will accept standard AR pistol grips as well.
Bullpen.....guessing predictive text on his cell phone nailed him on that one and he didn't catch it.
Auto correct got me again!Quote:
Originally Posted by stangfish
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daviscustom- make sure you post up final pics of that project, looks pretty sweet!!!
Hello sharpshooters correct on his info But the casting was in ceramic molds. This changed the steel to be very pour is and light. if you reheat it I'm sure it will brake. (the bb sized opening ) the ones that were done by phoenix arms are TIG welded on bead blasted and slick coated. There price is not to bad for the work involved. I've had one of 4 bend that I felt good about giving to my customers. the others I welded new ones on. I also sent one to phoenix arms and had them leave it ruff so I could see there process.. They are Good...
I need a smart phone. I misspell everything and can only blame myself. Some of my darling daughters text make no sense to me. She blames it on the phone.
The sad thing is you spell something correctly and the phone thinks it should be something else so it just changes.
I do try to reread and edit before posting though.
Anyways, back to the thread!
I wanted to know if you got the action screwed down and if the bolt still feels good and solid during operation?
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Yes it feels good to me. I don't doubt what navyman is saying, but in the process of bending and reshaping the bolt handle I never felt or saw any signs of anything giving like it was about to fail. Resistance to bending when it was heated and being reshaped felt pretty constant throughout the process, and during grinding filing and threading I found no signs of pourosity or cracks/seams in the metal. Guess I will see if anything shows up when I beadblast it.
Maybe I got lucky, but I didn't find any flaws in my bolt handle.
That's why I posted this question, I was leery of trying to mess with a cast part like this, but in general the handle was much softer then I expected ( the finish part).... didn't appear to be brittle at all.
Great Job!! It may have been just me. I have one in the shop now to move forward now. I'm going to change my gas to natural and see if a cleaner more even heat works better. will post a picture tomarrow
I was using an acetylene torch and I just clamped it a heavy vise....holding it by the ring where it attaches to the bolt (trying to use the vise as a heat sink to keep from getting that ring too hot). I just heated the spots where it was bent and straightened each bend individually...tried to keep the heat localized to only the area I wanted to change. As I said, I may have gotten lucky and just got a handle that was a good solid casting. I don't think I really did anything special to make it turn out right....that I know of.
it may be the castings I had were bad the one I did last night and the savage slug gun I bent this morning worked perfect.
Good, I was starting to second guess my instincts on mine going well.
Very nice. I was fooling around to see if a Pmag would fit in an 11, but the opening in the receiver as too narrow. I imagine an Axis' receiver would be a bit more generously proportioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by daviscustom
As long as you are using them as a center feed mag they work great. They don't present the cartridge high enough for use with 5.56.
How is this project coming along? Been long since an update!
I was going to post an update...but then I thought it would be better to just do a separate thread, since this one is really just about the bolt mod......and it is done until the rest of the project is complete and I am ready for the final finish, or possibly a redesigned knob if needed.
I just haven't gotten around to posting the build thread.....been working on the trigger guard/grip mounting plate and it isn't ready for prime time yet.
Always interested in seeing work in progress!
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I don't have time tonight, but I will try to get a thread up this week some time. I can show you guys pics of the bullpup stock from walnut plank to it's current form and all the inletting, parts mods, fabricated parts, and the trigger guard I am working on.
I will probably just do a picture thread to get everyone caught up on the project up to this point and if anyone has questions about the pics I can answer them as needed.
The current mind bender I am working on is the forward trigger assembly and the linkage to the rear trigger (the actual trigger on the Axis action). I am trying to fabricate the trigger guard/grip mounting plate so I can move on to the linkage.