rare find. savage mk 1 research and developement rifle

my girlfriends dad sold me a 22lr rifle that he believes is a research and development model of the mk 1. I have no idea what It is but it does have the savage info on it and it does have a weird marking on it where the barrel meets the receiver as well as a R D 91 stamped on the receiver. if you think you can help identify this as a real or fake savage gun please let me know I really want to know if it is a real research and development gun and if so how much is it potentially worth. thank you.

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Originally Posted by T-20E

my girlfriends dad sold me a 22lr rifle that he believes is a research and development model of the mk 1. I have no idea what It is but it does have the savage info on it and it does have a weird marking on it where the barrel meets the receiver as well as a R D 91 stamped on the receiver. if you think you can help identify this as a real or fake savage gun please let me know I really want to know if it is a real research and development gun and if so how much is it potentially worth. thank you.

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:welcome:
Pictures Please

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb5b1fd8.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9d9df1d5.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4ea47c6b.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...pse38a12fa.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps502b232a.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...psb30a283b.jpg

everything on it is original except for the sling. that he added. and only 3 shots were fired from that rifle that I know of.(but during research and development there could have been numerous rounds shot threw the barrel.)

When you get a chance you should really post up some pictures. I am sure I am not the only one wanting to see them.

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...psbb5b1fd8.jpg
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4ea47c6b.jpg

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps502b232a.jpg
http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...psb30a283b.jpg

http://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...pse38a12fa.jpghttp://i1294.photobucket.com/albums/...ps502b232a.jpg

Does this cock when opening the bolt or by pulling on the back of the bolt?

First of all...this is not a MKI, or a MKII or any variation of one. I'm not sure of the model, but it was made prior to 1988 at the Westfield plant. All of the MKI's and MKII's are made in Canada. The RD 97 is nothing more than an inspector and assemblers #.

opening the bolt

then wouldn't there be a serial number on the rifle?

there is no serial number and no caliber stamp on the rifle.

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Originally Posted by T-20E

there is no serial number and no caliber stamp on the rifle.

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Someone correct me if I am wrong, they didn't have to serialize until 1968, before that it was voluntary.

Looks like a 19 that had better sights(Anschutz?) and upgraded bolt.

Maybe someone should clue T-20E into who Sharpshooter is and that he just might know what he's talking about? Sure would eliminate a lot of specclation?

Might as well clue me in too because I haven't a clue.

The (SP) marks on the bbl and receiver appear to be the machinist hallmark which identify who worked on those components. Would Savage have imprinted the barrel with the company name and plant location for an R&D gun? It sure is a nice piece.

Irish

sharpshooter = Fred Moreo of Sharp Shooter Supply

That said, I think Fred's half right - it's not a MkI/II, or at least not anything remotely close to the production MkI/II. My catalogs are all boxed up somewhere right now due to a remodel so I can't pinpoint the specific year, but Savage didn't buy Lakefield Arms until sometime in the early-mid 1990's so a 1991 development rifle made in Westfield is quite possible (assuming Savage was looking at making an all new design before they started looking at buying Lakefield). Savage moved into the Westfield plant around 1960 so it could be a lot older than you think.

I have seen several other "R&D" Savages listed on Gun Broker over the years, but never have I seen one hand stamped "R D" with the year. Also, I can't make out what's in the circled stamp before the "R D" but it appears to be "SS" maybe? Savage jokingly refers to their R&D workshop as the "Savage Skunkworks" but I highly doubt they made up a special stamp for firearms developed there and would then also stamp them with an "R D" as well - it's just kind of redundant.

The circled "SP" stamp is the barrels proof stamp (Savage Proof) which just indicates the barrel was proof tested. Now why they stamped both the barrel and the receiver is a little puzzling, but maybe they were breaking in a new guy who stamped it in the wrong place the first time around. *shrug*

The safety is definitely not of the MkI/II style, nor is the rear of the bolt (that thing is about as fugly as the rear of the new B-Mag bolt). The sight wouldn't have been a factory installed piece unless it was built from the mid 1960's through 1980/81 when Savage was the official U.S. importer for Anschutz. My guess is that it's an owner installed sight - especially if it really was made in the 1990's (which I highly doubt).

Given the lack of a serial number I'm guessing this is a pre-1968 gun. Any firearm made post-1968 that ever leaves the factory has to be issued a serial number under federal law - even an R&D guns. That includes leaving the factory for range testing and evaluation by the engineering staff.

Any gun they use for testing, research and proof of concept, use a serial # with a QA prefix.

any idea on how much is a good price for it? because I bought it for 1000 and did I pay too much for it. also thank you all for helping id this gun

If you were a paid member I would offer you 30 dollars. Anything unidentifiable is worthless. :(

1000$.... Really?? It would not be worth that much if it were a bonafide R&D gun AND gold plated. Sorry you got hosed.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

1000$.... Really?? It would not be worth that much if it were a bonafide R&D gun AND gold plated. Sorry you got hosed.

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Maybe he accidently added a ZERO (or 2) or else his girlfriend's Dad hates him. Either is possible being the father or 3 daughters. I told my one daughter I am all set to meet the boy friends. I have 2 semi auto shot guns and could sling the pump over my back. My daughter replied, OK Dad but a side by side double looks more intimidating.

Who can argue with that?

how much would it be worth then and no I did not accidently add a zero.

$100 if it shoots good.

You guys are brutal. I would consider a refund based on the misrepresentation of the product. Can we see a picture of the complete rifle?

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Originally Posted by stangfish

You guys are brutal. I would consider a refund based on the misrepresentation of the product. Can we see a picture of the complete rifle?

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StangFish,
YOU are brutal...that picture is the complete rifle LOL j/k T20

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StangFish,
YOU are brutal...that picture is the complete rifle LOL j/k T20

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I resemble that... BTW, I would call that a collage. I meant a picture of the rifle in its intirety captured in one photo.

heh heheh heh You have a point.

Am I wrong in stating the rifle is worth about $100? New Savage rimfires can be had around $200.

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Originally Posted by JCalhoun

Am I wrong in stating the rifle is worth about $100? New Savage rimfires can be had around $200.

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Well I think it is a matter of perspective. IN April I bought myself a nice used Mark II G for $159 and they sell for $229 but his rifle is old, or I think it is. Value depends on its collect-ability OR how bad someone wants it. Take the Marlin 39a I bought as a yout, $189. Today it sells new for $700 and is a real POS and yet one in good condition, even what I would consider poor condition on GB, sells between $400 - $700 of the same vintage mine was.

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

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Originally Posted by JCalhoun

Am I wrong in stating the rifle is worth about $100? New Savage rimfires can be had around $200.

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You are if it said Suhl or Anschutz. I love my suhl 150.

But it doesn't. It doesn't say anything other than Savage, Westfield, MA.

Sorry if comes off as sounding harsh.

T20E, I'm thinking your girlfriends dad doesn't like you much.

i am sorry for not posting a full complete photo of the rifle because I have been dealing with collage and have not had much free time but this weekend I hopefully will be able to get a photo up soon and also it has card cutting accuracy with cheap Winchester 22lr ammo. I will also post a pic of my best shot at a card from 20 paces away(mind you I am 6ft tall and have long legs)

and to be honest I do think he doesn't like me much because when I first went shooting with him he took out his .50 BMG rifle when I took my puny savage model 10 predator hunter in .204 ruger.

T20E, I don't mean to rip on you but anyone who drops a grand on an old Savage without doing any research on the rifle, just takes the sellers opinion on the value, who is also his girlfriends dad kind of deserves to get hosed.

And it's "college" not "collage", unless you have just been really busy with your artistic side. :p

I'm just teasing dude but really think about it. :o

After reading this thread, i got to thinking " wow ! what a tough crowd " . Hey T20E keep your chin up and remember , believe only half of what you see and NONE of what you read on the internet ....

Tough crowd?.... how?....

No one has determined with any accuracy at all.... what the provenance or history of this gun is. To tell someone he was unwise in handing over *any* amount of money....without first determining what you have.... deserves to be told it was an unwise purchase ( regardless how polite or crude the admonition was).