.17 Hornet Off to Factory

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08-24-2013, 11:17 AM
JLShipley

Rifle Off to Factory................

This last time gun was at Gunsmith, checked out the Headspace, over 1/4 "off, that seems to be the main reason, I'm having trouble extracting the spent shell. I'm also getting expansion of the case, about 1/4 " above primer, looks like a ring, resizing die takes care of it during reloads. Could be barrel was not threaded in enough or headspace was machine wrong.

Maybe new gun, or Barrel, I'll keep all informed, and get more details.

I know they'll take care of it, just seems it been a never ending story with this gun. :confused:
Jim

Yet, it shoots like a Tack driver.........
08-24-2013, 01:28 PM
davemuzz

Well Jim....once you get it back it should be a lifetime keeper!!

Let us know.

Dave
08-27-2013, 12:37 AM
plinkin

I'll be watching. Meanwhile my 3rd model 25 is en route. Not that I am getting as a replacement, just adding a caliber.
09-02-2013, 12:40 AM
robert de

Jim I seen the same ring on my 17 hornet was just wondering what you found out about that issue on your rifle. Thanks Robert . Also Jim What was your best working reload? If you don't mind telling me.
09-03-2013, 02:42 PM
JLShipley

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert de

Jim I seen the same ring on my 17 hornet was just wondering what you found out about that issue on your rifle. Thanks Robert . Also Jim What was your best working reload? If you don't mind telling me.

H110 , 20 V-Max 9.5 gr 35 to 3600 FPS.................. Still have not gotten full answer from Savage, they have gun, seems either going to redo barrel or replace complete gun, will keep all advised....
Jim

My other new gun, just back from GS , trigger pull set at 2.5 lbs...action B/P and barrel crown redone, should shot 3/4" groups all day.
:biggrin-new:
09-03-2013, 08:36 PM
robert de

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

H110 , 20 V-Max 9.5 gr 35 to 3600 FPS.................. Still have not gotten full answer from Savage, they have gun, seems either going to redo barrel or replace complete gun, will keep all advised....
Jim

My other new gun, just back from GS , trigger pull set at 2.5 lbs...action B/P and barrel crown redone, should shot 3/4" groups all day.
:biggrin-new:

That will take the smile off a squirrels lips at 200yds!
09-14-2013, 05:52 PM
JLShipley

UP-Date .17 Hornet still at Savage

Contacted Savage,
Gun still being looked into.............
1. Gun smiths replaced extractor, took to range, gun failed....:mad:
2. Back to Gun smith, check head space again, (Note case is not seating against barrel):confused:
3. Savage Gum smith's have given gun over to engineering department.:o
Should have answer next week?, will advise forum.:(
09-14-2013, 06:40 PM
davemuzz

I have some H-110 in the powder cabinet. I'll give it a try and see if I can burn the barrel out even faster!!! IMHO, I think all barrels in all guns should be worn out. That's a true indication that your shooting just enough to keep you busy!!!

Dave
09-14-2013, 09:19 PM
Dispatch1

JL, very interesting. I am waiting to get my mod 25 back from factory for the second time; bolt keeps freezing up. This time they told me they replaced the accutrigger and are now sending it back. I had it nib and first time to range bolt froze after about 30 rounds. Brass showing signs of excessive headspace. Took it to the range after I got it back and same problem again, bolt froze and brass had signs excessive headspace. I am thinking of trading it in on a model 10 or 12, it has spent more time at service than in my possession. Too bad, this gun was a real tac driver.
09-16-2013, 03:41 PM
JLShipley

Gun being REPLACED.............

Contacted Savage, .17 being replaced with new gun.:cool: Won't have for a few weeks, they have to put one together.
They'll contact me next week, with shipping date.:applause: They wouldn't really say what was exactly wrong, since there replacing rifle, not complaining.
09-16-2013, 11:04 PM
robert de

On your gun you sent back did you have any case separation after reloading and how many times did you reload the cases? I'm getting some bolt feel after three firings because I backed off my die to keep from working brass so much. I think head space problem is also a issue with mine but it does shoot well. A month and I'll know more. Hope your new gun shoots good.
09-17-2013, 12:14 AM
JLShipley

You want to run them through the FL sizer die, so far only ten cases that were not reloadable do to cracking of case, these were all re-loads, and loaded at the minimum for powder.
Many bulging of the lower case about 1/4 above primer ,this was due to bullet not seating against the barrel. and nature of the best.
Take it to a G/S to have checked out, mine wrote up letter with gun return.
Just started reloading o/f/brass, 225 all primer, 9.4 gr H110 with a 20 gr V Max. also have 200 rounds of .223 to do w/BLC2
09-19-2013, 10:08 PM
robert de

I measured my case length after 2 reloads 2.530 looks like they have stretched about .018 I don't think they will male another reload. What length were your cases when you noticed cracking I'm pretty sure I'll have to send this gun back also. Seems some savage comes good some do not. I Have 5 first 6-5-284 had 6inch of rifling missing they had me a new gun in a week the next one was great . no. 2 youth 7.08 great gun shoots 3/4 groups 3rd 6.5 longrange it went back they fixed extraction but gun not up to par. 4th 17 hornet now looks like it will go back. 5th 17hmr this is a good gun. It seems that we have to do the quality control and I think a lot never get sent back do to lack of knowledge. But I still buy savage hopeful they will fix this one.
09-19-2013, 10:30 PM
JLShipley

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert de

I measured my case length after 2 reloads 2.530 looks like they have stretched about .018 I don't think they will male another reload. What length were your cases when you noticed cracking I'm pretty sure I'll have to send this gun back also. Seems some savage comes good some do not. I Have 5 first 6-5-284 had 6inch of rifling missing they had me a new gun in a week the next one was great . no. 2 youth 7.08 great gun shoots 3/4 groups 3rd 6.5 longrange it went back they fixed extraction but gun not up to par. 4th 17 hornet now looks like it will go back. 5th 17hmr this is a good gun. It seems that we have to do the quality control and I think a lot never get sent back do to lack of knowledge. But I still buy savage hopeful they will fix this one.

What are you trimming the 1ST fired brass to? Are we talking .17 Hornet.....
My trim is 1.340 to 1.350, COL 1.714 with a 20 gr V-Max
09-20-2013, 01:34 AM
plinkin

What I don't like about the new 25's is all of them, Walking Varminter or not, come in the satin finish not the high gloss. I don't think that was a swift move for Savage but who am I?
09-20-2013, 06:22 AM
davemuzz

My only complaint (left) about my 25 in .17 Hornet is the feeding of the cartridge. I do notice that if I put 4 rounds in the magazine, the first one will not chamber smoothly. IF I put 3 in, the first round will chamber smoothly about half the time.

Now, for brass reloading I'm not having any problems. I've already taken a small segment of brass and reloaded this "group" 4 or 5 times with no problems. I took my Nosler 20gr. loaded over 9.0gr. of H-110 to the range the other day. Accuracy is excellent at 100 and 200 yards. I just forgot to bring along my chronograph. Grrrrrr.

Plinkin....as far as the matt finish, these rifles are purpose made for varmint hunting. Sun glare (or at night, light glare or moon glare) is not good when your coyote or fox hunting. The matt finish is the best for this purpose made rifle.

MHO

Dave
09-20-2013, 09:13 AM
plinkin

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemuzz

.

Plinkin....as far as the matte finish, these rifles are purpose made for varmint hunting. Sun glare (or at night, light glare or moon glare) is not good when your coyote or fox hunting. The matte finish is the best for this purpose made rifle.

MHO

Dave

Dave, I understand that but the Walking series in the 25 has always been matte finished and I feel it was partly because it is a price-point rifle in as much as it is lighter. I know the syntha-stock and 2" less barrel shed the weight but the syntha-stock & matte finish shed the cost too. The Axis and B.Mag are also price point rifles, same finish. I didn't whine about the finish on the B.Mag because the rifle is what it is and it is not a bad rifle for the new rim fire round. The Savage M40 Varminter, 22 Hornet, hi gloss finish and the laminate stocked M25's the same or were until January. I have 3 M25s and when I ordered my 22 Hornet I fully expected to get the matte finish and when I did not I was very pleased. I understand the idea of "purpose built" but I am fairly certain they didn't make this change because hunters were complaining the sheen on their rifle was a distraction. They did it to lower the manufacturing cost.
09-20-2013, 11:05 AM
JLShipley

Quote:

Originally Posted by plinkin

Dave, I understand that but the Walking series in the 25 has always been matte finished and I feel it was partly because it is a price-point rifle in as much as it is lighter. I know the syntha-stock and 2" less barrel shed the weight but the syntha-stock & matte finish shed the cost too. The Axis and B.Mag are also price point rifles, same finish. I didn't whine about the finish on the B.Mag because the rifle is what it is and it is not a bad rifle for the new rim fire round. The Savage M40 Varminter, 22 Hornet, hi gloss finish and the laminate stocked M25's the same or were until January. I have 3 M25s and when I ordered my 22 Hornet I fully expected to get the matte finish and when I did not I was very pleased. I understand the idea of "purpose built" but I am fairly certain they didn't make this change because hunters were complaining the sheen on their rifle was a distraction. They did it to lower the manufacturing cost.

Check with Savage, New gun will be shipped 3 weeks?...Also there sending a M25 LWT .17 , will have the Satin Blue finish on Barrel......both the M25LW and LWT (Laminated Stocks) will have Stain Blue finish, others will have Matte
09-20-2013, 12:09 PM
plinkin

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

Check with Savage, New gun will be shipped 3 weeks?...Also there sending a M25 LWT .17 , will have the Satin Blue finish on Barrel......both the M25LW and LWT (Laminated Stocks) will have Stain Blue finish, others will have Matte

When I spoke to Andrew in Savage CS last month and asked about the matte finish on the M25s and asked if there had been a running change he said since January there had been.
09-20-2013, 01:40 PM
davemuzz

Well, I suppose to each his own. If I were to order one I would want exactly what I have now. A matte finish barrel and receiver because of glare, and a plastic stock.....because I for sure am darn hard on wooden ones. Heck....I'm tough on plastic ones!!!

Dave
09-20-2013, 09:19 PM
robert de

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

What are you trimming the 1ST fired brass to? Are we talking .17 Hornet.....
My trim is 1.340 to 1.350, COL 1.714 with a 20 gr V-Max

Yes the 17 hornet sorry about miss info. started out 1.350 after first fired round measured 1.45 second reload went to 1.48 to 1.50 I just think this is a lot of case growth. I think I'll trim back to 1.35 and reload again. I'm using 9.8gr lil gun with good groups this load started at 9.3 and work up groups got better as I took them up at 9.8 I am starting to flatten the primer so this is max for me. I have not speed check my reloads yet, but the factory loads clock about 3700 with my chronoghraph.Sometimes I have feed problems but most the time common failure is extracting extractor lets go of shell about half way out the barrel This is going to be a good gun for a lot of the shooting I do if I can get the bugs worked out. thanks for your reply.
09-21-2013, 10:20 AM
JLShipley

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert de

Yes the 17 hornet sorry about miss info. started out 1.350 after first fired round measured 1.45 second reload went to 1.48 to 1.50 I just think this is a lot of case growth. I think I'll trim back to 1.35 and reload again. I'm using 9.8gr lil gun with good groups this load started at 9.3 and work up groups got better as I took them up at 9.8 I am starting to flatten the primer so this is max for me. I have not speed check my reloads yet, but the factory loads clock about 3700 with my chronoghraph.Sometimes I have feed problems but most the time common failure is extracting extractor lets go of shell about half way out the barrel This is going to be a good gun for a lot of the shooting I do if I can get the bugs worked out. thanks for your reply.

I would de-prim, clean & size them, trim them to 1.34, at least under 1.35. Then try annealing 25 rounds, then reload and set at Hornady spec's C.O.L for the Bullet type, your using it seem to much powder, cut back to 9.5, that most likely the reason your getting such case growth.
I've never had that much case growth, maybe after 1 ST fire, 1.37+ then trim to 1.34, I always trim my 1st case reload to low Case length number, after that just keep it under 1.35, normally only have a some that I need to re trim, most of my 3 RD reloads were in spec's.
Your case feed problem might be you C.O.L., what is your total case/bullet length COL after reloading?
09-21-2013, 06:08 PM
robert de

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

I would de-prim, clean & size them, trim them to 1.34, at least under 1.35. Then try annealing 25 rounds, then reload and set at Hornady spec's C.O.L for the Bullet type, your using it seem to much powder, cut back to 9.5, that most likely the reason your getting such case growth.
I've never had that much case growth, maybe after 1 ST fire, 1.37+ then trim to 1.34, I always trim my 1st case reload to low Case length number, after that just keep it under 1.35, normally only have a some that I need to re trim, most of my 3 RD reloads were in spec's.
Your case feed problem might be you C.O.L., what is your total case/bullet length COL after reloading?

With factory round case is 1.35 after this first fire case grows to 1.44. or 1.45 this alone seems too much its like the chamber is to long the case is stretching just above the rim. On my three reloads I started first round 9.1lilgun second 9.5. last load was 9.8 I don't have any loaded right now but I have some once fired factory that I will work on and give your advice a try but I don't think 9.8 is too stout hodgdon says 10 gr lilgun max but i'll go back to 9.5 and see. I have what is called a 17 cut. That is almost identical to the 17 hornet. And I don't get this excessive growth in this gun. My overall loaded length is 1.715
09-21-2013, 09:03 PM
robert de

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert de

With factory round case is 1.35 after this first fire case grows to 1.44. or 1.45 this alone seems too much its like the chamber is to long the case is stretching just above the rim. On my three reloads I started first round 9.1lilgun second 9.5. last load was 9.8 I don't have any loaded right now but I have some once fired factory that I will work on and give your advice a try but I don't think 9.8 is too stout hodgdon says 10 gr lilgun max but i'll go back to 9.5 and see. I have what is called a 17 cut. That is almost identical to the 17 hornet. And I don't get this excessive growth in this gun. My overall loaded length is 1.715

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...ert402/006.jpgThis is the steps for my 17 cut.
09-21-2013, 10:42 PM
JLShipley

I Know, they seem to be about 1.35, had some from factory 1.338 to 1.35, I'm just going off Hornady Re-Load Book for the .17 Hornet, shows case length 1.34 to 1.35, I trim them short, 1ST reload, they don.t seem to grow as much,.
like your 17 cut.......COL is right in there, but if your re loading with a longer case than let say 1.35, bullet might be in further, which might bring up pressure? just a thought, might be off base on this one, but it seems I heard this before.
Keep it safe, I'll let you know how replacement gun is, once I get it.:applause:
09-22-2013, 12:07 AM
robert de

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

I Know, they seem to be about 1.35, had some from factory 1.338 to 1.35, I'm just going off Hornady Re-Load Book for the .17 Hornet, shows case length 1.34 to 1.35, I trim them short, 1ST reload, they don.t seem to grow as much,.
like your 17 cut.......COL is right in there, but if your re loading with a longer case than let say 1.35, bullet might be in further, which might bring up pressure? just a thought, might be off base on this one, but it seems I heard this before.
Keep it safe, I'll let you know how replacement gun is, once I get it.:applause:

Your right Jim I back my new loads off to 9.6 in these small cases .1gr. can be a lot when close to top end better safe than sorry. My daughters deer season is about to start so we will be working with her 7.08 for awhile now.
10-09-2013, 12:01 PM
JLShipley

New gun just arrived.....................

Savage Arms:usa2:, came through, new Model 25 .17 Hornet, gun just arrived at Gunsmith. Mounting scope and taking it to range, as soon as I can and check it out. Will advise on how it shoots, chambers, and extracts cases.
SAVAGE:first:

DO TO CALIFORNIA LAW, EVEN THOUGH GUN WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR A GUN BOUGHT IN CA . HAVE ANOTHER 10 DAY WAITING PERIOD..:confused::mad:
10-25-2013, 05:38 PM
wlleven

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLShipley

Savage Arms:usa2:, came through, new Model 25 .17 Hornet, gun just arrived at Gunsmith. Mounting scope and taking it to range, as soon as I can and check it out. Will advise on how it shoots, chambers, and extracts cases.
SAVAGE:first:

DO TO CALIFORNIA LAW, EVEN THOUGH GUN WAS A REPLACEMENT FOR A GUN BOUGHT IN CA . HAVE ANOTHER 10 DAY WAITING PERIOD..:confused::mad:

When I was a kid I use to live in the great state of California, some 60 years later I live in Kalifornia !!!

I think you get my drift !

wll
10-26-2013, 07:16 AM
Dispatch1

JL, just wondering how long it took Savage to send you a replacement. I was told I was also getting a replacement rifle and about a month later still waiting for notification of it being sent to my local range(FFL transfer) for pick up. I have called them about three times to follow up and told it takes some time for paperwork at their end. Also, I noticed that my 25 had been made at Ontario, Canada plant and was thinking if maybe that had something to do with bolt/headspace issues.
10-26-2013, 11:38 AM
JLShipley

It took a little over 6 weeks , for turn around plus the 10 day waiting period, and you know I'll have to check and see were my 25 was made?
10-28-2013, 06:03 PM
Dispatch1

On the other hand, my MarkII BTVS was made in Ontario and I think it is hands down one of the best and most accurate 22lr out there for the money.
11-27-2013, 10:55 AM
GaCop

I've been thinking about getting a model 25 but, since reading about all the problems, I'm beginning to wonder...........

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