How To Fit More Powder Into A Case

Listen up boys and girls, I am asked this question often, how do you fit X amount of powder in a certain case, when I can only fit this amount no matter what brand of brass I use, Me personally I have found you can achieve more FPS and tighter groups, buy using more of a slower powder than less of a faster powder, and at the same time showing less signs of pressure, how I achieve this is by placing my reloading tray right beside my bench grinder, when I am pouring the powder into the the cases, the slight vibration that the bench grinder creates really settles the powder in compactly, that and pouring it in slowly and not just dumping it in the funnel, this of coarse really only applies to stick powder, I can usually get an easy 5% more powder and in most cases even more, which is a big factor in achieving the numbers that I do, just thought some folks would like to know, it is also a way around for those who don't like to compress loads, "Hey Frank"

Dean

Thanks

I wasn't sure where to post this, because it applies to standard, Ackley Improved, and wild cat cases,

Dean

FYI Chargemasters and other measuring instruments, do not cooperate at all with they bench grinders antics so take appropriate steps.

Dean

scope eye, by starting this thread you have proven to me that ESP is alive and well, because I have been thinking for some time about sending you a PM to see if you would consider enlightening us on your reloading methods, but here we are with a great place to start:) I am very interested in your statement that "book max loads are often your starting loads". I have great faith in the strength of the bolt action rifle, and I include Savage among the best of these. So I know the action is good and buy working loads up slowly pressure signs will show up in the case first. But it would be great to hear what you have already learned through experience. I will start with a few questions that I hope you will answer for us:)?

1. I shoot a 140grn PSP in my 260Rem touching the lands, and that bullet is a "bore rider" so there is no problem engaging the lands. I want to try some other bullets that may not engrave so easily so I think they should have some jump to the lands. For powders, I have considered using IMR 7828, Hybrid 100v, H 1000, Re 19, or maybe Re22, thinking of your suggestion "slower and fuller is better". Question-do you ever touch the lands "and" use a full or compacted load, or do you use some jump, depending on the bullet?

2. I use Remington cases and get good case life, but I haven't visited the "hot side of town" much yet. I want to see if a little more speed and "kick in the butt" will help my accuracy. Question- what brand of cases do you use with your hot loads and what kind of case life do you expect from them ?

3. That's enough for now, unless you can think of anything to add. Thanks Very Much:)!.....Jim

Scope Eye.....what a great money saving idea!! And here....I've been hiring a belly dancer to place my powder filled brass on in order to get the powder settled just enough to add a bit more powder. Those dancers get expensive after awhile!!!

Yeah! Messing with brass cases tends to keep me away from brass poles :) :) ... Less expensive !

A long drop tube helps to align the kernels of powder also.

Like this...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/293...long-drop-tube

Hey Jim I never touch the lands, not in any of my twenty plus calibers I load for, my minimum is 50 thou and up to 100 thou is not rare,
All my loads are compressed loads even with the powder settled in a la bench grinder,
As far as brass goes I use all brands they all have there pros and cons, by far the toughest brass is Privi Partisen, to be fair It's not real brass it's half brass and half old tanks melted in with it,LOL but it is by far the brand that can take the most abuse, come to think of it they should sponsor me, if you or anyone else has any other questions I will gladly respond.

Dean

Ok, 50 thou off the lands takes away some pressure. Do you have any problems with compressed loads pushing the bullet out in hot weather, or do you take them to the range in a cooler, etc.? Thanks Dean.....Jim

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Originally Posted by FW Conch

Ok, 50 thou off the lands takes away some pressure. Do you have any problems with compressed loads pushing the bullet out in hot weather, or do you take them to the range in a cooler, etc.? Thanks Dean.....Jim

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I have never had that problem of the bullets pushing out in hot or cold weather, I don't know what the term is for powder, but I compress the load but I don't hydro lock it, and when I am seating the bullet I seat it in SLOWLY to allow the powder a chance to conform into place.

Dean

A vibratory tumbler can be used as well.

I am a small volume reloader so I like to seat my bullets with a Lee hand press in order to get a good feel for neck tension. This can be advantageous to keep from over compacting the powder while I'm learning this new process. Thanks ... Jim

Everyone needs to remember that Mr Scope Eye does not believe the muzzle velocity of any cartridge should be under 3700fps.

And to think, all this time I have just been using a bigger case to hold more powder :)

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Originally Posted by stangfish

Everyone needs to remember that Mr Scope Eye does not believe the muzzle velocity of any cartridge should be under 3700fps.

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That sounds about right, and I am working on upping that number, I was wondering when you were going to chime in, by far the best brass to use are the pieces that are so thin, you can see daylight through them, they hold the most powder.

SPANKY

That's why I like Remington and Winchester brass. It fire forms easily and has more volume. Give me the thin stuff:)!

My interest in this subject is not to achieve any certain velocity number, but to achieve better accuracy through a bit more velocity which is a little outside the "standard" reloading suggestions. After all, "Wildcating" has brought us some of our most successful chambering's, and learning from those who have put the time in to learn what is possible is certainly beneficial to me and others. Dean is not the only one who has found better accuracy through more velocity.

Question Dean-when I buy a barrel, it has to last me a while. Do you experience rapid barrel ware or throat erosion with your reloading methods? Does your garden have a lot of steel "tomatoe stakes" :) ! .... Thanks - Jim

"Question Dean-when I buy a barrel, it has to last me a while. Do you experience rapid barrel ware or throat erosion with your reloading methods? Does your garden have a lot of steel "tomatoe stakes" :) ! .... Thanks - Jim"

Hey Jim, I have covered this before, I am not what you would call a volume shooter so that's not an issue, the big thing I have found is never overheat the barrel, that and as I was saying slower powders seem to be less harsh on throats even though you are using more of it, if you want a number I have never got less than 1000 rounds on anything I load, and then I only have to rethroat it that's about 100 bucks, a good example I have a 22-250 then I rethroated it, then I went to an Ackley Improved version also about 100 bucks, now it is a 22-243, same 100 bucks keep in mind that there was over 1000 shots between changes, and they did not necessarily need it some times I did it because I wanted to and not out of necessity, just like my 30 calibers I had a 308 I turned it into a 30-06 which then became a 300 Win Mag, I was recycling be for it was cool. so I guess I could figure in 10 cents a round for barrel wear, with bullets 30 cents apiece thirty bucks for a hundred count, 30 cents worth powder 30 bucks a pound 100 rounds average per pound, primers a nickle each 50 bucks a brick of 1000, less than 10 cents a round to make it all happen that's a bargain in my book.

Dean

PS: Someone asked me this about slow twist barrels, but I forgot who, so here you go, this is what I have concluded from having almost every configuration of barrels possible, that all things being equal for every one number slower twist you gain about 100 FPS, as far as medium to light bullets are concerned, I don't know if that also works for 300 SMKs out of a 338 cal or the like, I have not tried it, but it has for the 160s TTSXs and nearly every other combination and caliber I have tried.

BTW I was kidding about the brass, the brass gets that thin from growing and having to trim it so often, and is well past it's life expectancy.

Dean

Thanks very much Dean! Site searches seem to come easy for some folks, but not for me. I apologize for asking questions you have already answered and I will work on improving my search skills :) ..... Jim

Don't worry about it, but it is by far the question I am asked the most often.

Dean

Oooohhhh... you're a sly one, Mr Grinch. ;)

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Originally Posted by aka:Cliff

Oooohhhh... you're a sly one, Mr Grinch. ;)

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I will take that as a complement due to the fact that I have been called worse,LOL Oh here is a tip for ya, the more out of whack your grinding wheel is, the more powder you can fit in true story.

Spanky

PS: you know I have watched that Christmas special every year, since it came out, first as a kid then as a father and as a grandfather, it came out in 1966 so I guess that's 46 times, WOW I had never thought of it until now.

Yes Sir. a complement. (sorry if it was not clear)

I enjoy a good determined mind solving a problem.
Very sly at making more room.

Its like filling a bottle with marbles. Then Sand. Then water.
Always room for a little bit more.

Being born in '64 myself, I've seen it a few times myself too.

Just use a 4-6 inch drop tube.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scope eye

Hey Jim I never touch the lands, not in any of my twenty plus calibers I load for, my minimum is 50 thou and up to 100 thou is not rare,
All my loads are compressed loads even with the powder settled in a la bench grinder,
As far as brass goes I use all brands they all have there pros and cons, by far the toughest brass is Privi Partisen, to be fair It's not real brass it's half brass and half old tanks melted in with it,LOL but it is by far the brand that can take the most abuse, come to think of it they should sponsor me, if you or anyone else has any other questions I will gladly respond.

Dean

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I too really like PPU rifle brass--and their rifle ammo is a bargain for the price and quality IMHO. However, I recently bought some of their 380 auto FMJ ammo and it's the some of the worst stuff I've ever shot--I don't think their rifle quality carries over into their pistol stuff unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by thermaler

I too really like PPU rifle brass--and their rifle ammo is a bargain for the price and quality IMHO. However, I recently bought some of their 380 auto FMJ ammo and it's the some of the worst stuff I've ever shot--I don't think their rifle quality carries over into their pistol stuff unfortunately.

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I use to be able to buy that ammo so cheap, that I would buy it to pull it apart.

Dean

so is there one thread that contains all of Scope Eye reloading secrets and tips or is it all spread in this reloading forum? I always like to read other reloaders procedures and such. It helps improve one reloading process. My problem is not having ES and SD numbers....

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Originally Posted by Nandy

so is there one thread that contains all of Scope Eye reloading secrets and tips or is it all spread in this reloading forum? I always like to read other reloaders procedures and such. It helps improve one reloading process. My problem is not having ES and SD numbers....

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It's not just all over the reloading forum, it's all over the forum in general, so if you have any questions feel free to PM me, or just start a new posting, never to busy for a fellow shooter especially a forum member.

Dean

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Originally Posted by thomae

A vibratory tumbler can be used as well.

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I didn't see it on here yet, but there was a story a few years ago about some guy in europe who put his loaded 44mag rounds into a tumbler to polish them up. The tumbler made the powder into finer pieces, which overpressurized the gun and blew it up. Fact or fiction, I don't know, but I would think the factory makes the kernels, sticks, and flakes a certain size for the intended burn rate.

http://yarchive.net/gun/ammo/tumble.html

Rich...Good point.
I didn't mean to suggest that anyone place their loaded rounds into a tumbler, although there are some who insist on doing just that.
From a safety perspective, I don't think I would do that.

I am Guilty of it, there is some running as we speak, hey what can I say, I like my Bling Bling, I even add wax to the tumbler, and that makes them real shiny, plus the slickness of the case eases they extraction when running those nuclear fusion hot loads.

Spanky jr

Oh great, now the cases don't hold in the chamber and the bolt lugs are holding ALL the presure. Can you say BOLT EYE.








Morning Buddy!

Yeah but, just think of how nice & shiny they'll look glistening in the sun...

Happy Thursday, Gents.

Folks always do comment on them, and ask me how to achieve the same results, when I tell them, it becomes a deal breaker, just like when folks ask me "I would love to achieve the speed you do" when I tell them how apparently that's a deal breaker also, I have had folks ask me several times the same thing, did you actually think I was going to say something else or have a different answer, go away and don't bother me any more, Fish I am sure I have plenty of chamber "grip", and I don't have to worry about bolt thrust, I can tell by how bloated they cases are when I full length size them after every firing.

Spanky jr

I spin my cases in the drill & clean them with a little 0000 steel wool. There was a time I concerned myself with the cleanliness / shininess of the cases.
Now, I'm happy if I can see the target. Sometimes I can even HIT it.....

By the way Dean, you're not concerned with higher pressures being hard on the brass and / or rifle?

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Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla

By the way Dean, you're not concerned with higher pressures being hard on the brass and / or rifle?

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No I am not very concerned, since I have never seen any I'll effects on my rifle, whether it be they barrel or they action, I could not allow myself to do that, as far as the brass goes lets just say, I don't get they amount of cycles I could get, if I wasn't so enthusiastic or generous with my powder portions, lets just say the brass takes one for the team, I equate it to when I use to build High performance racing engines,
I would say to my clients do you want an engine that will last all season, or do you want to win races.

Spanky jr

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Originally Posted by stangfish

Oh great, now the cases don't hold in the chamber and the bolt lugs are holding ALL the presure. Can you say BOLT EYE.







Morning Buddy!

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This issue of Handloader Magazine addresses this issue. I was pretty surprised to read that the bolt face gets quite a bit less pressure according to that article. Good read this issue.. and I have tumbled loaded ammo to get the lube off of it. I left some in overnight by accident once, disassembled it and looked at the powder and didn't see any degradation of the powder grains. Had an encore in that caliber and shot it without any problems. Blitzfike

I tried they tumbler approach, but I guess my work bench is over built, that and the new tumblers are quieter, although I think my old one caused a crack in the foundation, but this morning I did manage to fit 33gr of H335 in a 223AI case and still seat a 40gr Vmax, with this method,COOL

Spanky

OK Dean, let's talk about accuracy, as it relates to this screaming velocity. Do you always get better accuracy using your methods, or just better terminal performance? Thanks ....... Jim

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Originally Posted by FW Conch

OK Dean, let's talk about accuracy, as it relates to this screaming velocity. Do you always get better accuracy using your methods, or just better terminal performance? Thanks ....... Jim

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How can I put this, OK if you are punching paper at 100 yards you could probably tighten up the groups a bit, but where my loads really shine is 200 to 600 yards, where the time of flight is so short that there is almost no chance and time for the bullet to deflect from it's path, a bullet that is dropping in it's flight is not a bullet that is "charging" in it's flight, like I always say a bullet that spends less time in the wind, will be less affected by the wind, I don't punch paper I am not good at it, and have no qualms about it, although I am really good at getting a shot off within a second or two, none of that breathing, repositioning, getting comfortable, back and forth and trying to get the scope perfect focus all that stuff, and when I shoot, I shoot at things and when I do I never have to stop and think about how I am going to go about taking that shot as far as windage, elevation, whatever, I have missed shots, but it's just that I missed, I have never said to myself if only my groupings would have been tighter, I would have got it, my way of loading is more accurate than I will ever be, I know that from other shooters that have tried my loads in my rigs and in there's, and that they all agree that there is something to my approach, but are to set in there ways to change, hope this helps and clears things up a bit anyway.

Dean

Thanks Dean. The only reason I shoot paper is to be ready and confident when I put the cross hairs on my next buck. When that time comes, I don't consider anything else, put the cross hairs on the vitals, know that is were the boolit will hit, and touch it off. Because of prior preparation, that's been working for a lot of years. The next month or so, I will get the opportunity to try some of your methods. Of course I will work up slowly, but it will be interesting. I think it could be just the thing to get some of the boat tails I have, grouping better.
Thanks again ...... Jim

My pleasure Jim, I tell you I don't know why, but I can't seem to keep my concentration long enough to put 3 holes in a piece of paper, but I tell you if I sweep across a varmint or some other target, as soon as it hits the crosshairs it's just a natural reaction I pull the trigger, I never sweep back and forth or up and down that is when you really start wondering, when me and my buddies are squirrel hunting, and when he starts running and tapping trees, and everyone has there rifles down, waiting to see where he will stop, that's where I come in and get him in on the fly, then that's when the belly aching starts, "hey that one was suppose to be mine" well it didn't look like you were after him just watching him get away. Tough

Dean