Help with brass sizing

I have a target new 6.5x55 that I built. I'm planning on building a 6.5x55 to hunt with as well. I also have a collection of Swedish military rifles that I have been shooting cheap plinker prvi ammo in. I planned to save my lapua brass for the target rifle and use the prvi brass in the new hunting rifle. I'd hate to lose lapua brass is the woods! Tonight I sized the once fired prvi brass and it won't fit in my target rifle. I can't close the bolt. I know I have my chamber set tight, but I still figured I could reuse the brass. I bottomed the die on my the press plate and using my case comparator I was still 0.004 from being sized down to the once fired lapua brass size. I guess this is due to the enlarged/worn military chambers. Is this brass useless now? Any suggestions on how to get it to size back down enough to be used? Before somebody asks, I can shoot the factory prvi ammo in my target rifle with no problems and it sizes back to where it should.

I had a similar problem with a .243 sizing die a few months ago. I took the shell holder, locked it up in the vice & ground about .010" off it so the die would come down further. After a few months of needing the "special" shell holder (and losing it once in a while) I sent the die back to Lee Precision & they cut the bottom of the die.

By the way, the shell holder is some pretty hard stuff so of you decide to grind it, take your time & grind slowly. You can dress it up with a file to make it smooth if necessary...

Well I have a Forster press so no shell holder for me. Any other suggestions?

This is not a smart Ummm, posterior answer....but have you considered picking up a Lee press that does use a shell holder?

Not a smart posterior answer. No I haven't. Hate to buy a press to save a few hundred brass.

No shell holder to cut down?

Hhhhmmmmmm....

How about cut down the base of the die? Know anyone with a machine shop?

Or consider a Lee Press...

You don't need a machine shop to shorten a die. (I had to do this with every Redding die I have ever owned.) Take the die apart, and using various weights of sand paper, you can shorten the die. Start out with some 220 , and work down to 2000. Take the sand paper, and place it on a surface you know is flat. Some will tape the paper down, some would just hold it. Flat surfaces are glass, like a cutting board, I have had great success using the coffee table. Hold the die absolutely straight on the sand paper, and work in a figure 8 motion, rotate the die to a different position every few strokes. Watch doing this as material will be removed quicker than you think. once you work down to 2000 grit, wash the die out in a good cleaner, like acetone. Reassemble and see what your set back is. May take a few times of working and cleaning and checking to get it right.

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Originally Posted by 82boy

You don't need a machine shop to shorten a die. (I had to do this with every Redding die I have ever owned.) Take the die apart, and using various weights of sand paper, you can shorten the die. Start out with some 220 , and work down to 2000. Take the sand paper, and place it on a surface you know is flat. Some will tape the paper down, some would just hold it. Flat surfaces are glass, like a cutting board, I have had great success using the coffee table. Hold the die absolutely straight on the sand paper, and work in a figure 8 motion, rotate the die to a different position every few strokes. Watch doing this as material will be removed quicker than you think. once you work down to 2000 grit, wash the die out in a good cleaner, like acetone. Reassemble and see what your set back is. May take a few times of working and cleaning and checking to get it right.

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+1 This works!

+2 you can stuff cotton in the bore to keep the dust from climbing up in the nether regions of the die.

A few more questions. What dies are using IE... full length or neck, Lee or RCBS yada yada. When you size the lapua brass does it fit you chamber? If one type of brass works then we need to consider the hardness of the other non working brass, If you are neck sizing with a lee collet we need to look at the die setup and maybe lose it all together.

I'm using Forster FL die. All brass fired and sized from my savage fits. Only the brass fired and sized in my old military swedish mausers won't fit.

+1 to sanding the die. It is pretty easy and works well.

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Originally Posted by 82boy

You don't need a machine shop to shorten a die. (I had to do this with every Redding die I have ever owned.) Take the die apart, and using various weights of sand paper, you can shorten the die. Start out with some 220 , and work down to 2000. Take the sand paper, and place it on a surface you know is flat. Some will tape the paper down, some would just hold it. Flat surfaces are glass, like a cutting board, I have had great success using the coffee table. Hold the die absolutely straight on the sand paper, and work in a figure 8 motion, rotate the die to a different position every few strokes. Watch doing this as material will be removed quicker than you think. once you work down to 2000 grit, wash the die out in a good cleaner, like acetone. Reassemble and see what your set back is. May take a few times of working and cleaning and checking to get it right.

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Coffee table, sandpaper of various grit, acetone. Sounds like a machine shop to me.

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Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla

Coffee table, sandpaper of various grit, acetone. Sounds like a machine shop to me.

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Yes, but there is not a single machine in it.

Have you measured the case headspace? If the case headspace is the correct length then you may have a brass/body issue. If you case headspace is too long and you are using the exact same setup to size brass from both guns you may have a brass/hardness issue. Then again you may just be neck sizing the savage stuff without sizing the body but I doubt it. If you go sanding on your die the consequences are possibly oversizing your lapua brass the next time you resize. I think you need to know what your case headspace is.

I used my hornady case headspace gauges to measure the unforced new lapua, once fired lapua from my target rifle, and the once fired prvi brass from the military rifles. I have my FL sizing die set to resize my once fired lapua 0.002 less and 0.002 which is 0.002 more than the new lapua brass. I can not get the once fired prvi brass to size to that. The smallest I can size it is 0.003 more than the once fired lapua brass.

Just one question before you start grinding; you say you screwed the die all the way down to the shell press plate. To full-length size, you must now screw the die in 1/8th of a turn,while maintaining contact with the plate to keep the die "square," to take up slack in the various hinges of the press. You may be doing that, but I don't remember reading it in your original post.

yes, i am screwing the die down correctly

Since it is sizing your lapua brass correctly and not the privi brass...and I say this not knowing anything about the privi brass, but it sounds like it is springing back which leads me to believe the brass is too hard. Try anealing one piece and see what happens.

If the Lapua brass is sizing down correctly then the answer is to anneal the prvi brass before sizing. Try it on a few pieces and see if that fixes your problem. It really sounds like hard brass with too much springback.

Sorry for the repete Stang

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Originally Posted by stangfish

If you go sanding on your die the consequences are possibly oversizing your lapua brass the next time you resize.

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The Lapua brass is problem not being sized by the die, so worse case scenario, it will stay the same. Even with all of that, all you have to do is measure and just back the die out a bit, and everything goes back to normal.

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all you have to do is measure and just back the die out a bit, and everything goes back to normal.

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I am not disagreeing that he could possibly fix his problem by removing material off the base of the die.
If it is bumping the shoulder of the lapua brass to -.002 with the current setup, then the die is doing its job the way it is. And if he can leave the die set in one place for his rifle for both brands of brass in my opinion he is better off rather than tuning the die for each headstamp.

Taking .002 to .005 off the die is easy enough but possibly unnecessary. Adding steps to my reloading process is something I try to avoid.

So, my question is, do you fix the problem with the privi brass(or at least do a test on one piece), or do you forgo any experimentation and mod the dies. Im my mind you are doing that to over size the brass trying to get it to spring back to where you want it and hope for it to be somewhat consistent at best.

Your posts have helped me in the past and your experience has helped many others as well. I just asked a few more questions and took a different slant. I am not saying modifying the die is wrong I am just saying do some tests and find out why. I may be overthinking it, but that is the approach I would take. The barrel nut in my opinion has made removing material from the base of a die obsolete. If there is a disagrement there it was not intentional on my part.

Well I'm just going to hold on to the brass til later and get new brass for the rifle I'm building. Just not worth all of this for a couple hundred pieces of brass. If anything I may make a shim to put beneath the brass and resize it, but it's going in my brass bin for storage for now.

For understanding, it sounds like (this is as much question as observation):
1. The headspace for the Mauser is quite a bit longer than the Savage
2. Headspace on the Savage is tight
3. Fired Lapua brass fits fine without sizing, and the die is probably only sizing the neck
4. Since the die is not working for the long head space Privi brass, whenever the Lapua stretches more the die probably will no longer size it enough either.

So how did you set the headspace on the Savage? Maybe the answer is to increase it slightly??

My opinion for 1 and 2 is the same. For 3 the OP stated that he bumped the lapua shoulder back .002 loose in the chamber.

Number 4

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Since the die is not working for the long head space Privi brass, whenever the Lapua stretches more the die probably will no longer size it enough either.

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I have found that if the brass is in reloadable condition that spring back is minimal. There may be some people that size hardened brass by adjusting the die to account for springback of the shoulder but I have never known anyone or seen anything written that advocates this. Accuracy suffers. Unequal neck tension and inconsistent shoulder length is a biproduct of such practice as well as split necks etc....

There is always a die or chamber that missed inspection and was shipped out that may not be in spec. Due to the success of the lapua sizing I do not see this as the case here. The experiment of annealing one or two pieces of brass will answer all of the questions though.

Headspace was set with a go/no go gauge. It is a match chamber. Headspace was set with very little tolerance between go and no go (0.002") per jim briggs recommendation. My dies are set up to bump the shoulder back 0.002" from fired lapua brass. My dies size any brass lapua or cheap stuff fired from my savage without any problems. If anything I need to check the headspace on military rifles. I think the issue is the brass is blown out from the opened chamber of the military rifles. They may have just been stretched beyond what my dies will size without modifying the dies, or the brass is spring back too much after sizing and need to be annealed. Either way it is a moot point as I'm just getting new brass.

How does not being able to size the Privi to spec reconcile with the ability to size brass either up or down to form a different caliber? Does this perhaps relate to the Privi not being sizeable due to being overworked and therefore needing annealing? I'm still learning about this brass stuff!

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Originally Posted by fgw_in_fla

Coffee table, sandpaper of various grit, acetone. Sounds like a machine shop to me.

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Or a mess the little lady will KILL me for makin!!!
back to learnin from you guys

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Originally Posted by CharlieNC

How does not being able to size the Privi to spec reconcile with the ability to size brass either up or down to form a different caliber? Does this perhaps relate to the Privi not being sizeable due to being overworked and therefore needing annealing? I'm still learning about this brass stuff!

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Well.....Yeah....Kind of. If his sizing die is set to size the datum line of his brass (the datum line is the line half-way between the bottom of the neck, and the shoulder---well....kind of) to provide a clearance of a "selected rifle" of 2-thousands of an inch.....and then he attempts to size a piece of brass that is work-hardened, and for this example let's assume this brass piece is 6-thousands over (longer) than the sizer die is set for. So, the brass is sized, and pressure is applied and the user "feels" the brass being re-sized. However, perhaps what has actually happened is the piece of brass was pressed down to the die setting of the 2-thousands less than the "selected rifle" chamber setting, but when the brass was removed it "sprang" back to "even" or perhaps +1-thousands more (longer) than the selected rifle chamber setting. Therefore, when the attempt was made to chamber this now re-sized brass, it still will not fit because it is not yet to size.

See?

At times if the brass is too overworked it will simply crumple or crush during the resizing stage.

Dave