I have met the gorilla!!!

I have taken off more than a dozen factory barrels for myself and friends. Some harder than others to break lose. I picked up a pawn-shop beauty 110 a few weeks ago. Started the barrel off a week ago... barrel in the blocks and a few good pulls on the barrel nut wrench tell me this isn't the typical barrel. So I the soak the threads with Kroils for 3 days. Mounted it barrel blocks tonight few hard pulls on the barrel nut wrench and no go. So I break out the Wheeler action wrench. Tighten it down good. No good. Holy smoke how tight can this be? I add a 24" of 2" pipe of the barrel nut wrench and through the weight to it... No freaking go.... I am 284 lbs. Your kidding me. I break out the 4 lb shop hammer. It took a dozen hard blows on the barrel nut wrench before it moved. I flatten the heck out of one side of the wrench before it broke lose.

I humbly bow.... I have finally met the legendary Savage gorilla that tightens barrel nuts...

May you forever avoid meeting him, Tim

I ended up using a grinder with a cutoff wheel to get mine off.

3' of cheater and a 5lb dead blow wasn't cutting it.

First savage I changed the barrel on was unreal. I put the heat to it and it came right off. Looked to have Loc-tite on the threads.

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Originally Posted by Lbass

First savage I changed the barrel on was unreal. I put the heat to it and it came right off. Looked to have Loc-tite on the threads.

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That would be salts from the bluing process.

BTW. It is a she. Jim has pictures of her straightening a barrel with a mini arbor press.

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Originally Posted by geargrinder

That would be salts from the bluing process.

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Savage 116, First owner. Could be anything, Loc-tite was the quickest conclusion.

On the good side of things, most barrel removals are easy unless the front screw for the front scope base is to long. I've done it, I've seen several barrel that have had it done.

I never thought about salts from the bluing process? I guess I always thought the components were blued before assembly?
The worst one I ever had, I hadn't learned about the "cap screw against the recoil lug trick yet". With a 4' pipe on the wrench,
it was twisting the action in the wood blocks, so I "heated" the nut. It came loose right away, but after the nut cooled on the
barrel threads, it still wouldn't come off by hand, because there was something black and sticky on the threads. I think it was
"Loc-tite" that burned up with the heat? I, personally, don't like the idea of exposing a "precision" piece, like the action, to the
dead-blow hammer, or the heat, for that matter. On another build, I cut the nut off with the Dremel tool, because I had a spart
nut handy. Much less violent! If, someday, I buy an action wrench, I'm still going to drill & tap for a 1/4" allen head cap screw
for the recoil lug to ride against, so there's no way the action can twist. Then when I put the 3' pipe on the 18" breaker bar
I'll just have to be careful not to "upset the work bench" ? ! :) :) :) ..... Good Luck ..... Jim

Using a propane torch with just enough heat will work good.If you use an acetylene torch you would have to be more than careful,I wouldnt advise it.Always use a reciever wrench to stop the reciever from twisting.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

BTW. It is a she. Jim has pictures of her straightening a barrel with a mini arbor press.

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LOL.....wouldn't want to P.O. that woman.....crush yer head like a grape !!! Imagine her with P.M.S and a handgun.:yield:

I recently encountered this issue. Getting the relationship of the action wrench handle and barrel nut wrench as close to paralell to each other is critical. Once I had the barrel in the barrel vice (with rosin) with the action wrench handle parallel to the floor, an ammo can was put under the handle for it to brace against and hold it horizontal. The barrel nut wrench (NSS with 1/2" drive receptacle) is installed onto the barrel nut as close paralell with the action wrench as possible. This will allow the forces to essentiall cancel out any ancillary axial force. Additionally,te closer the action wrench, barrel nut wrench, and barrel vise are to each other, the better in this respect. Then a 1/2'" breakover bar is indexed into the barrel nut wrench and a 30" long piece of 1 1/4" pipe slid over the breakover bar as an extension. With this setup, it has never taken more than about 50-60 lb of force to break the nut loose.

I don't know much about "ancillary axial force" and that there stuff......

I just put'm in this getup then go have a beer!:p
http://i41.tinypic.com/24ys4l2.jpg

Bill

Hey BillPa,

Sorry about the technical terms, guess its just the engineer coming out in me. What I was talking about isnt far from your setup. The barrel and action are held solid by the barrel vise and action wrench and force is applied to the nut in the middle, that way the force available to the action is minimized. Note how your barrel nut wrench is at 3 o-clock but your action wrench handle is at 1 o-clock?. Having the two of them as close to paralell is what I was referring to.

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Originally Posted by BillPa

I don't know much about "ancillary axial force" and that there stuff......

I just put'm in this getup then go have a beer!:p
http://i41.tinypic.com/24ys4l2.jpg

Bill

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that is a very nice set-up you got there

I believe Bill has them available in oil finished walnut for $724.99, plus postage and handling of course. Checkering or highly figured claro is extra :)

FYI... they *do* put LocTite on the threads.

LocTite *Thread Sealer*, intended to keep out the chemicals from the finishing process, not to 'lock' the threads.

Considering how much more difficult the blued/matte-black finish barrels seem to be to remove than the plain stainless barrels... I'm guessing it ain't working quite as well as planned.

Nevermind

Just had a SS barrel I was taking off. Got it loose, then the nut froze down. I was able to remove the barrel from the action. Now i am working on getting the nut off the barrel. lol

LOL got it off. This was a large shank barrel and I was trying to unscrew the nut toward the muzzle. Can not do it that way. Has to go over the threads toward the shank end of barrel. Unscrewed with 2 fingers that way. lol

Mark Twain said "a boy that carries a cat by the tail learns a lesson he can learn in no other way."

These threads are always funny to me! I have changed quiet a few barrels out now, and the first one was still the worst! Was a used .270 that was definately put together by the same Gorilla that you speak of. Took an unbelievable amount of effort and techniques to get that one off. Everyone since then has been a piece of cake in comparison.

jonbearman wrote:

"Using a propane torch with just enough heat will work good.If you use an acetylene torch you would have to be more than careful,I wouldnt advise it.Always use a reciever wrench to stop the reciever from twisting."

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Would it be possible to use a heat gun instead of a torch?

Also, would a barrel vice be safer to use than an action wrench because the barrel would be the only thing that could be damaged that way? Is grinding the barrel nut off a better solution if you have a spare?

I don't know what I am talking about having never done it or seen it done; I am just looking for guidance because I expect to be buying a bull barrel for my Model 11 .260 Remington soon from Jim @ NSS.

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Originally Posted by expfcwintergreen

jonbearman wrote:

"Using a propane torch with just enough heat will work good.If you use an acetylene torch you would have to be more than careful,I wouldnt advise it.Always use a reciever wrench to stop the reciever from twisting."

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Would it be possible to use a heat gun instead of a torch?

Also, would a barrel vice be safer to use than an action wrench because the barrel would be the only thing that could be damaged that way? Is grinding the barrel nut off a better solution if you have a spare?

I don't know what I am talking about having never done it or seen it done; I am just looking for guidance because I expect to be buying a bull barrel for my Model 11 .260 Remington soon from Jim @ NSS.

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In my opinion, the heat gun would be preferable to a torch if heat really is required. The heat give would give a far greater level of control over how hot the steel gets.

On my last one, I stripped every last stud off my nut wrench.

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Originally Posted by GUNFANATIC

On my last one, I stripped every last stud off my nut wrench.

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Holy cow!!!!!

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Originally Posted by GUNFANATIC

On my last one, I stripped every last stud off my nut wrench.

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They must be giving the gorilla steroids with the bananas.:frusty:

We've already heard "it's a LADY, not a "Go-rilla" ! ... and we've also heard, it's probably "thread locker", not torque ! ? :(

Stripped all the teeth off your nut wrench? I hope that's a joke?:( ... If not, you should have shifted to one of the alternant methods mentioned above before that happened. When we put a 3' or 4' pipe on the breaker bar and the nut doesn't come loose, we are applying " 200 or more #'s of torque! "I don't believe anyone @ Savage is torqueing the nut that tight"? As mentioned above, the "blueing" process, or thread locker("Lockite") is more likely the culprit. Sometimes, the face of the nut is "rough". I always "stone" mine before assembly. A rough nut face could contribute to the binding? Yes, a good heat gun can produce enough heat to do the job. Even when "Red Loc-tite" (permanent) is used, heat will bring it loose. Bill Pa has a really good set up!:) But the worst teardown I had would not have come loose with his set up without putting a 4' pipe on the action wrench handle, or hitting the handle with a hammer! "It took the heat to get that one loose"! There's a link out there showing Lane Pierce of "Shooting Times" doing a teardown, and he had the "entire kit" @ his disposal, including the action wrench. But he didn't even use it! He just used the "wood blocks" on the barrel ! "That" was an "easy" one! Not the problem teardowns we are talking about on this thread! I think Savage worked with him on that project to make it work like it's "supposed to" ! I'm sure from week to week Savage is worrying about getting sued, so they tell the Lady to "hit the nut wrench" with a 4# hammer, or "Red Loc-tite" is used in the threads to keep trash out, or whatever, etc., etc. But one thing is for sure ! We have enough information on this site to "get that sucker loose" ! ! :) :) :) Good Luck .... Jim

I have been fortunate to not encounter one yet. I did have to get my 1/2 torque wrench and put it in my barrel nut wrench to break a nut free though. But then again I am 6'4 300# so it put up a small amount of resistance.

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Originally Posted by FW Conch

Stripped all the teeth off your nut wrench? I hope that's a joke?:( ... If not, you should have shifted to one of the alternant methods mentioned above before that happened. When we put a 3' or 4' pipe on the breaker bar and the nut doesn't come loose, we are applying " 200 or more #'s of torque! "I don't believe anyone @ Savage is torqueing the nut that tight"? As mentioned above, the "blueing" process, or thread locker("Lockite") is more likely the culprit. Sometimes, the face of the nut is "rough". I always "stone" mine before assembly. A rough nut face could contribute to the binding? Yes, a good heat gun can produce enough heat to do the job. Even when "Red Loc-tite" (permanent) is used, heat will bring it loose. Bill Pa has a really good set up!:) But the worst teardown I had would not have come loose with his set up without putting a 4' pipe on the action wrench handle, or hitting the handle with a hammer! "It took the heat to get that one loose"! There's a link out there showing Lane Pierce of "Shooting Times" doing a teardown, and he had the "entire kit" @ his disposal, including the action wrench. But he didn't even use it! He just used the "wood blocks" on the barrel ! "That" was an "easy" one! Not the problem teardowns we are talking about on this thread! I think Savage worked with him on that project to make it work like it's "supposed to" ! I'm sure from week to week Savage is worrying about getting sued, so they tell the Lady to "hit the nut wrench" with a 4# hammer, or "Red Loc-tite" is used in the threads to keep trash out, or whatever, etc., etc. But one thing is for sure ! We have enough information on this site to "get that sucker loose" ! ! :) :) :) Good Luck .... Jim

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Nope. Not a joke. I didn't try another method because I had never had one I couldn't break free out of probably 50 or more. In the past, I always used a barrel vise just to hold it in place, attached an action wrench, nut wrench and gave the nut wrench a couple good whacks with a dead blow. This last one, about 5 hard smacks and stripped my wrench. Since I had an extra nut, I used a big pipe wrench to break it loose.

Don't use a dead blow hammer, use a big ball peen or brass hammer. The utter shock is what breaks the nut loose. I have busted 1000's of nuts loose and never used an action wrench or heat. I still use the very first barrel nut wrench that I made, and it still works. Now if you've seen it, it's beat up on the edges from hammer blows, but all of the teeth are still there.

I dont like the idea of using a action wrench.... I built a barrel vise and use the nut wrench. When I use a brown paper bag wrapped around the barrel between it and the aluminum shims it wont even mark it. If it does its just aluminum marks on steel. I made a lead hammer and a couple whacks and its loose! I have lots of friends come over to use my vise. even works good on glued in rem barrels. I need to post a photo... Matt

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

Don't use a dead blow hammer, use a big ball peen or brass hammer. The utter shock is what breaks the nut loose. I have busted 1000's of nuts loose and never used an action wrench or heat. I still use the very first barrel nut wrench that I made, and it still works. Now if you've seen it, it's beat up on the edges from hammer blows, but all of the teeth are still there.

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Well, there ya go. Mine was a Wheeler, and an old one at that.