Am I asking too much from my rifle?

I've got a Stevens 200 action, Criterion 6BR, 28" bull barrel in a Devcon bedded Bobby Hart stock that I can't seem to find the sweet spot of. I've tried Sierra 107 and 85 gr using Varget and H4198. I load at my range and do 3 shot groups. I just shot 12 groups going up .2 gr of powder using forester dies and I'm extremely frustrated. It would shoot the first two rounds in the same hole then throw the third round maybe 1/4" off. It did this on 9 of the 12 groups. I measured all groups and averaged out to .457" which I know isn't bad but it isn't great either. I'll not be satisfied until I can shoot 5 groups in a row in the same hole or at least all 3 shots touching. Am I asking too much from this setup?

BTW, I shoot 3 shot gps to keep heat down and save time while load testing.

I would expect better from a 6br in a full bull. Have you tried playing with your seating depth? You might also try a burger in case your tube just does not like the smk. (I hear it can happen)

Seating depth is what I was thinking.

i always start with the bullet at the lands
then look for the best groups with your powder chgs.
then start adj. your depth

drybean

Am I imagining things? It seems to me everytime someone posts that has a few shots in one small group and suddenly there is a flyer and it happens consistantly almost always it is tracked down to a bad scope not holding zero. The larger and more powerfull the cartridge the worse the problem seems to be. Just to be sure, change to another scope of known ability to group. Its a cheap way to check for that problem.

Elo Lobo

My guess is you're probably only neck sizing. If this is not the case then you need to use smaller bushings. Assuming you are using bushing dies.

You're expecting short range groups from a long range rifle. Actually for long range, the groups you shot at short range are good. Typically loading VLD's and testing at 100 yds is a waste of time, as most won't fully stabilize till about 300 yds.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

You're expecting short range groups from a long range rifle. Actually for long range, the groups you shot at short range are good. Typically loading VLD's and testing at 100 yds is a waste of time, as most won't fully stabilize till about 300 yds.

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+1

I'll add that I heard nothing about a trigger. Upgrade the trigger before you do anything else.

Two things I would try: Let someone else shoot your rifle and see what his results are. Also, as ellobo suggested, try swapping scopes of known ability to group.

I agree with most that has been said. First thing I would do is start shooting for group at 200 yards and then adjust seating depth from there. Chances are you will find that it is actually shooting better at that range.

Just askin....but when you install your barrelled action onto your stock, you: First, just get the action screws to lightly snug against the stock, then Second, Hold the rifle in a vertical position and give it a light "bang" (off the floor or your bench) to set the recoil lug against the stock, then Third, Tighten the front screw FIRST to a given inch\lb of 40-45in\lbs, then tighten the rear screw to the same in\lbs? :P

Again....just tossing it out.

Dave

Also make sure the tang area is free floated, If there is tang pressure it will cause these results ;)

Tnslim, Just had a similar problem. Turned out the flyers were ME ! Shooting off a bipod with a rear bag that had stretched over the years not allowing the stock to nestle snugly in the bag. Refilled the ears on the bag to firm it up & went to free recoil. No contact to rifle except thumb on trigger guard, index finger on trigger BINGO!......... But don't overlook the scope as a possibility......... Keep on keepin' on :D

Forgot to mention that I did rework the trigger to almost a slamfire condition but it works pretty good. The scope up to now has no known problems as this is the 2nd rifle it's been on but could still possibly be the problem. As for seating depths the forester dies have been giving me fits. The depth will vary as much as .016 in 3 rounds when using the 85gr match Sierras. I'm seriously considering ordering a set of Lee dies as they work very well with my other rifles and are much more consistant. My plan is to take some 105 Hornadys and varget and will swap scopes for the next outing. The problem probably lies in the loose nut behind the trigger as the rifle is a bit front heavy and is harder to hold on target than my VLP's but I concentrate and honestly feel I'm doing my part. I may take about 4 or more inches from the length but only as a last resort. And as to using a long range rifle to shoot short range that most likely is the problem. I feel if I had ordered a 12 twist it would be more accurate at the range I shoot. I can only shoot to 200 yds at my cow pasture range. Thanks to all for your suggestions.

after everyone's suggestions here, if you still don't solve your problem...I would try a different powder than Varget and 4198. I had a very similar exerience with a .243 barrel, and finally tried a different powder and my flyers went away. Nothing wrong with Varget or 4198, just something to try.

And I quote....
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
"The scope up to now has no known problems as this is the 2nd rifle it's been on but could still possibly be the problem."

I said the very same thing about my Vortex.... After 3 weeks of banging my head on the concrete floor, I bought a Nikon, took it to the range with me. I gave the Vortex ONE LAST CHANCE. I even threatened it with letting the nitrogen out of it & filling it with moist, humid air.

Nada, nuthin, zip....

Did the 'ol switcherooo to the Nikon. Sonofagun!!!! Back to shooting 1/2" groups with my beloved 150gr Noslers in my '06!

Think about it.

All it takes is one little 'ol loose thingiemabob inside the scope & you loose your sanity trying to figure out what's happening.

Good luck with it. I hope you get 'er figured out.

Frank in Fla

I'da let the nitro out.....filled it up with farts, and then sent it back to the factory. ;D ;D ;D Yeah.....for sure!!!

YEEAAHH DAVE!!!! I LOVE IT!!!!

Let's go with it on the next scope sombody gets that goes bad.

I'm hip. I'll stock up on burritos & keep them in the fridge.

Frank "Gas Pains" in Fla

have you tried a different primer?

I've only used CCI mag primers so far but will possibly try regular CCI's.

I'm puzzled w/ the seating depth variation you're getting. Is it possible the pointy nose of your boolit is making contact (bottoming out) in the seating stem preventing the stem from contacting the ogive consistently? If this is happening you'll probably have some wild variations in run-out also. Something just ain't right if you're getting .016" variation in seating depth w/ the Forster. Just my .02 cents, Dale

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Originally Posted by Tnslim

I've only used CCI mag primers so far but will possibly try regular CCI's.

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The one you are using or the CCI BR primer is the one.

The new Forster dies had to be returned due to leaving bad scratch marks on the necks and the seater die left a ring around the bullet nose which they repaired by honing. I've had problems with them since new. I'm pretty sure the bullet isn't bottoming out as I've checked and seen no signs of touching. I don't own a run out gauge but I always hand roll the loaded round across my bench to check runout but it could still be a few thousandths out and I doubt I could tell. I plan on swapping to another scope before hitting the range plus will sonic clean, anneal, full size and trim the brass and also give the bore a good scrubbing. I'll start with 105 Hornadys and Varget and the bullet seated around .020 off and hope for that one ragged hole everytime. It's definitely trying my patience but I won't give up on it.

I have a similar rifle build as yours (CBI on a Stevens); it likes the Berger Target 105 over Varget and is not very sensitive to makeup of the load. Doesn't like the Amax or
Speer nearly as well so now I'm sticking to the Bergers. How are you measuring seating depth (LOA or with comparator)?

I use the Hornady comparator.

Wind Flags ....

Glenn