Shorter barrel.308

My current project is going to be a lightweight left handed carbine style hunting rig.
I have recently acquired most of the parts I think I'll need. I'm thinking of cutting about 1"-1 1/2" from the rear of the factory stock that I converted to lefty ( I'm 6' but I took the recoil pad off and the length without it feels good. Yeah I'm a stock crawler), moving the sling stud back and cutting a couple of inches off the forearm and rebuilding the tip with epoxy, and then having about 4" cut from the end of the factory sporter barrel and recrowned and maybe even threaded.
Is anyone else shooting a 16" or shorter .308?
Any reason to believe accuracy will fall off much?
I would appreciate comments and experiences both pro and con concerning my plans
I was thinking of checking around for some .308 handgun loads to try to keep velocity up and tame muzzle blast so striker/TC or similar short barrel .308 data would also be appreciated. (Nosler claims 2484fps with N150, a 165/168 and a 14" barrel :) )
Thanks BHJ

The .308 Winchester is a better candidate for this than the "Ought 6". Muzzle blast is still gonna be stout. The faster powders, for caliber, will help with velocity and also the heavier, for caliber, bullets will keep energy levels up. I am thinking like the 178 grain A-Max and IMR 3031. I have a 20" barreled 788 and the Varget/4064 speed powders don't produce good velocities with the 150/155 grain bullets. Accuracy is typically unaffected by shortening the barrel and some claim it gets better depending on the contour. The bore condition seems to be the gage so I would expect similar results. I am with you on lightening up the load on a "Walking Rifle"!

Yeah, I'm trying to shed some of the bulk too. Long barrels just seem to snag on every limb when walking in the woods with the rifle slung, and are harder to deploy out of a shoothouse window or from a tree stand.
Typical stocks can also seem a little long and harder to shoulder with winter layers on as well.
Hmmm, Maybe I need to look into a winter style oversize trigger guard while I'm at it.
Any ideas on making one?
Any ideas or suggestions on improvements to this carbine concept are welcome
Thanks BHJ

For many years my hunting rifle was a custom light wgt Mauser on a commercial 98 Mauser action gold and silver inlaid by an old Danish gunsmith that escaped the Nazies in 1940. I got it and a 6 X weaver scope mounted from his son for $75. It had an 18 1/2 inch barrel as they like them light and short for the only hunting available in the mountains. It is in 7x57 and the first shots out of it with 160 gr. bullets went into a .75 group at 100 yds. The powder was BallC-2 which seems to work rather well with the heavier bullets. any loss of velocity can be made up by heavier bullets. I like that rifle because it is light and accurate for the type of hunting we have to do here in the dense hardwoods of Northern New England. Up and down hills is the norm as is average 50 yd shots. Have no fear about the .308's effectivness in those conditions. If I were to do it over I would go for a 20 inch barrel, that extra 2 inches wont hurt. Go for 18 inches and be happy, I am. And if you take a shot in sunup or dusk, be ready to wait awhile before your vision returns from the muzzle blast.
El Lobo

My rifle should be back from GAP next week, I had the barrel cut to 18" and had a badger fte installed.

Cutting a barrel down should, in theory increase accuracy, given it is done correctly. This is because you will now see less flex, but now we are getting into the issue of tuning...

The point was, don't worry about accuracy, it will be as good, perhaps better, though velocity loss may impact your performance at long range. (800+)

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Originally Posted by big honkin jeep

... Is anyone else shooting a 16" or shorter .308? ...
Thanks BHJ

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Yes I have a sporterized Swedish Mauser in 6.5x55 with an original 16 1/4 inch barrel. Very handy, quick to mount, and points like a finger. I'm a big fan of short barrels. Especially for shorter close-in hunting.

At the risk of being obvious.

Don't forget, a barrel length of less than 16 inches or overall length of less than 26 inches is a Short Barreled Rifle, and is an item regulated by the BATFE as an NFA firearm.

Yep, Fully aware of the barrel length and overall length regulations, But thanks for putting it out there for those that don't know. Definitely don't want to run afoul of the law with a National Firearms Act violation.

if it helps?
My Scar 17 H in 16 inch barrel is .5 MOA at 100 meters
I have shot out to 800 meters with ease on man size targets

I researched this question and could not find how to properly measure a barrel.
Is there a link where BATFE explains how to measure a barrel?
Sounds like a stupid question, but does one measure from the end of the receiver or from the end of the barrel recessed inside the receiver.
On the other end, if you have a recessed crown, do you measure from the outer or inner edge of the muzzle?

A link to the proper citation would be appreciated.

From the closed breech face to the end of the barrel or permanently attached muzzle device.
Darn hard to find but here is the citation you seek. As it applies to a rifle see section 2.1.3 Enjoy
http://www.atf.gov/publications/down...-chapter-2.pdf

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Originally Posted by thomae

I researched this question and could not find how to properly measure a barrel.
Is there a link where BATFE explains how to measure a barrel?
Sounds like a stupid question, but does one measure from the end of the receiver or from the end of the barrel recessed inside the receiver.
On the other end, if you have a recessed crown, do you measure from the outer or inner edge of the muzzle?

A link to the proper citation would be appreciated.

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You measure the BARREL. The portion inside the receiver counts as part of the barrel length, as would any muzzle brake that is pinned or soldered to eliminate quick removal. Threaded tight is not permanent!
The Part of the receiver that holds the bolt and trigger dose not count as barrel length. It dose count as total length of the gun, as will the stock when installed.

My 15" striker .308 will put 3 touching with 46gr varget and a 150gr hornady 3031

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Avenger

You measure the BARREL. The portion inside the receiver counts as part of the barrel length, as would any muzzle brake that is pinned or soldered to eliminate quick removal. Threaded tight is not permanent!
The Part of the receiver that holds the bolt and trigger dose not count as barrel length. It dose count as total length of the gun, as will the stock when installed.

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Perhaps a bit more precisely, for a rifle, shotgun or closed breach handgun (single shots, semi-autos) the length of the barrel includes the chamber since it's measured from the closed breach face. For a revolver, the barrel length does not include the cylinder.

One simple way to check barrel length is to make up a dowel rod marked at the exact minimum length (16" for a rifle, 18' for a shotgun) and drop it down the barrel until it hits the closed bolt. If the mark is inside the muzzle, you are legal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cycler

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Avenger

You measure the BARREL. The portion inside the receiver counts as part of the barrel length, as would any muzzle brake that is pinned or soldered to eliminate quick removal. Threaded tight is not permanent!
The Part of the receiver that holds the bolt and trigger dose not count as barrel length. It dose count as total length of the gun, as will the stock when installed.

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Perhaps a bit more precisely, for a rifle, shotgun or closed breach handgun (single shots, semi-autos) the length of the barrel includes the chamber since it's measured from the closed breach face. For a revolver, the barrel length does not include the cylinder.

One simple way to check barrel length is to make up a dowel rod marked at the exact minimum length (16" for a rifle, 18' for a shotgun) and drop it down the barrel until it hits the closed bolt. If the mark is inside the muzzle, you are legal.

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+1.......

I think a dowel rod is actually how they check them. quick and simple!

Thanks guys. I appreciate the answers.

NO! You guys are forgetting that there is about .100" or so that will have to be accounted for with respect to case protrusion when measuring the barrel. This is why many cut their barrels to 16 1/4". Ask Randy Weaver about how anal the ATF is about short barrels...
I would make it at least 16 1/4", that way if you have to re-cut a crown or anything, you won't have to trash the barrel because of it. 1/4" is not gonna make or break the build.

Kevin

if they are measuring with the barrel installed on a closed breach they are ok. case protrusion means nothing on and installed barrel.

The bolt face doesn't go right up against the barrel. Therefore you have to take into account what normal case protrusion is, or you will be slightly short of legal by about .100" or so.

Kevin

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Originally Posted by Aircraftmech76

The bolt face doesn't go right up against the barrel. Therefore you have to take into account what normal case protrusion is, or you will be slightly short of legal by about .100" or so.

Kevin

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That's only if you are measuring a barrel that's not installed in a rifle or shotgun. Then, you do have to make allowences for the fact there is a gap between the very end of the chamber and the breech/bolt face. If the barrel has been installed, that gap is taken into account already.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cycler

One simple way to check barrel length is to make up a dowel rod marked at the exact minimum length (16" for a rifle, 18' for a shotgun) and drop it down the barrel until it hits the closed bolt. If the mark is inside the muzzle, you are legal.

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This is the post I was referring to in which the poster states to use this method on an installed barrel with the bolt closed.

Kevin

Then I don't see your objection. If the barrel is installed, the dowel method gives the correct barrel length by the ATF definition.

If you pull that barrel, and it's 15.9" in length, are you willing to take it to your ATF office and say you've installed it without a tax stamp for a SBR? This is the point I'm making here. The barrel length is not measured from the muzzle to the bolt face, it's measure from the muzzle to a closed breach face (meaning the very beginning of the barrel).

Kevin

You guys need to be careful unless you want to take showers with soap on a rope...

If you think the ATF won't put you there, you shouldn't be shortening barrels.

Kevin

Aircraftmechanic has a point. Never trust some government beaurocrat to interpret the rules in your favor but the governments or his personal desire to make it tough on a gunowner. They know it will take a fortune for you to get a ruling reversed. Lawyers ain't cheap.

El Lobo.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net...50245746_n.jpg

15 3/2" it is then. ;D

Well played sir!

Kevin ;D

[quote=Aircraftmech76 ]
Well played sir!


Indeed.

El Lobo