LRP build Tried 4 different scopes run out of left adjustment

I’m puzzled. My new Douglas barreled 6mmAI build on an LRP action. I’ve had 4 different scopes on it Nightforce NXS, Weaver V24, Konus & Simmons. Each scope runs out of left adjustment.
I know for a fact the nightforce, weaver, & simmons are good scopes, I have Warne bases and rings on each scope. I have even flipped ends with the bases I done that before I mounted the nighforce no change. I think my holes are off.
Any ideas
This pic is with the nightforce mounted at 100 yards.
Thanks
[img width=512 height=768]http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac161/Zx-14guy/IMG_2619r.jpg[/img]

was this a new action or did you remove a barrel from it? may have warped it.

Remove the barrel and check the nut the lug and the action for for dings on the mating surfaces. Some methods of assembly/disassembly can cause proud metal. Don't ask me how I know.

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Originally Posted by keeki

was this a new action or did you remove a barrel from it? may have warped it.

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New action from Jim briggs

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Originally Posted by stangfish

Remove the barrel and check the nut the lug and the action for for dings on the mating surfaces. Some methods of assembly/disassembly can cause proud metal. Don't ask me how I know.

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lol

Now i can put my gun in a rest from bedroom wall to bedroom wall. It's 18 yards.(lazered) I have a orange dot stuck on the wall you can take the bolt out look down the barrel and see the dot you just run out of adjustment on the scope before you get close to the dot on the wall. Make any sense?

If there is a high spot on one of the mating faces....yes.

Sounds like the holes could be drilled off center. Burris Signature Zee rings could be your new best friend.

Millett Angle Lock rings would be the easiest cure for this problem.

I had a similar problem with a Weaver picatinny rail mounted on my Model 10FP. Tried various scopes, all known performers, to no avail. Took the rail off to look for burrs as stangfish pointed out above, and after finding nothing, proceeded to reinstall. That's when I discovered that the mounting holes in the rail were not the beveled, self-centering
type, but had a squared shoulder for the screws to tighten down on. There was enough slop in the holes that when the screws were just slightly loosened, you could wiggle the rail side to side a little bit. I apparently had it cocked to one side when I first mounted it. I shifted it a slight amount in the needed direction, retightened, reinstalled the scope, and found that I was now close to center. I was somewhat worried that this thing would shift under recoil, but I've got probably 300 or so rounds of .308 through it with no shift in POI. Keep in mind too this was a very slight amount of "slop", but it still made a big difference at 100 yds.

BTW, did you say your bedroom is 18 yds. wide? ??? ;)

Lots of windage adjstable rings out there.

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Originally Posted by efm77

Sounds like the holes could be drilled off center.

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Somewhat unlikely given its a new LRP i.e. Target Action - done in two passes on a CNC machining center. Difficult to get *just* the scope holes 'off' in that environment.

Possible something warped a bit during heat treat following machining, though.

BTW, did you say your bedroom is 18 yds. wide? ??? ;)
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LOL I wish. From my master bedroom wall, through dinning room,through the kitchen,through the hall way into the other bedroom wall is 18 yards.

"Possible something warped a bit during heat treat following machining, though."
That's possible too. But nothing's perfect CNC machined or not. Stranger things have happened.

Are you saying you've tried 4 different sets of bases and rings? If you haven't tried different bases and rings that would be my next move. If you have tried different bases and rings I would tear the rifle down and start looking for problems. This is my suggestion if you decide to tear the rifle down. Mark the barrel so you know how it was indexed then tear the rifle down to look for anything obvious if you don't find anything obvious reinstall the barrel with the index mark in a different location and go shoot. If the POI changes you will know it is a barrel problem and can take the necessary steps. Hope this helps. Brian Brown.

I would center the reticles in one of the scopes, then try a set of adjustable bases.

I would try another set of bases AND rings. If that doesn't help, I am sure Jim and Savage will look at it.

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Originally Posted by Ramdiesel

BTW, did you say your bedroom is 18 yds. wide? ??? ;)

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LOL I wish. From my master bedroom wall, through dinning room,through the kitchen,through the hall way into the other bedroom wall is 18 yards.
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Whew! If it was, I was gonna suggest you might be more at home on the Blaser Shooters Forum! :) ;)

Did you try loosening the base screws, and shifting the bases in the direction you need to go,(if possible), then retightening?

As has been said, the bolt bodies do warp after heat treatreating if all I have heard over the yrs on this forum. If you can determine that a straight line through the centers of the base mounting holes point to the right or left then you have a warped bolt body. 2 solutions; call Savage and ask that they take a look, they may pay shipping, or send it to Fred Moreo at SharpShooterSupply for straigtening.
Stretching a straight edge across the centers of the holes will show if they are on a warped bolt body by pointin ther straight edge away from the cneterline of the bolt body. Simple enough to check bafore going bonkers spending bucks on a new set of scope rings and bases.

El Lobo

just lay a broom handle in your scopebases. it should be perfectly parallel with your barrel

that was a joke by the way

Did you try loosening the base screws, and shifting the bases in the direction you need to go,(if possible), then retightening?
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I just did this very thing. I bet I’ve bought 15 sets of Warne bases and NEVER had this happen before. Sure enough you could loosen the bases and move them around. I pushed the front base and pulled the rear one to me. I now have 43 clicks left adjustment in my weaver V24. It will be at least a week before i go back to the range.
I'm off to the Blaser Shooters Forum. Do they like Savage rifles over there? ;D
Thanks for all the help guys
http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/IMG_2627.jpg

++++ ;)

Any bases that use fillister type screws have this problem. It's not a matter of "IF" they will move, it's just a matter of when.
Good bases use the tapered Weaver style screws that center in the hole when drawn up.

Can you recommend some good ones?
Thanks

I prefer the Picatinny rail to traditional bases. It's stiffer and gives you more flexibility in scope/ ring placement. EGW makes good, reasonably priced rails.

Thanks again Barrel-nut

Windage adjustable rings are a band-aid for a bigger problem. Who would build a nice rifle like this and put crap rings like Millet or Burris Z's. The Warnes are about as economical GOOD ring as there is,,There are lots better,go up in quality not down. Like I said if running out of windage you have other problems .... ???

+1 for EGW. I really like their stuff. Brian Brown.

EGW's are nice and I have a couple but they don't make steel bases for the long actions which is why I put Warne's on my long actions. Just personal preference. As to Burris Zee or Signature Zee rings being crap? That's a new one on me, I think their quality is very good. Of course there are other more expensive rings out there though but I've never had a problem with Burris rings to make me think they're crap.

neighbor is a champion shooter he swears by burris z rings he doesnt go for the grinding of the scope bases to accomplish what a burris ring will do!

he has shot for many many years.

bob

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Originally Posted by efm77

As to Burris Zee or Signature Zee rings being crap? That's a new one on me, I think their quality is very good. Of course there are other more expensive rings out there though but I've never had a problem with Burris rings to make me think they're crap.

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+1

i had a similar problem when a changed barrels i also swapped bases and rings the old rings and base centered good at 300yds.but when i put a egw 20moa base on with burris xtr rings the thing shot way right (1 1/2' @ 100yds) i turned the front ring around and got it close to center(good for right now ) i believe the base may be off after my feb f class match i'm going to replace it with something else. also going to lap the rings this time.

As others have mentioned before, "stacking tolerances" can lead to this sort of problem; ie if the base holes are off just a tiny bit, but still in spec, and then you happen to get a scope base that is off a little in the same direction, and rings likewise, suddenly you have a problem, even though no one piece may be truly out of spec for that manufacturer. Wow, what a run-on sentence!?!

I have a Weaver picatinny rail type base that I described in my previous post that uses filister head screws(thanks SS). Because of this, it has some inherent slop when the screws are loose, so in effect you can use this to your advantage to effect rough windage adjustments when setting it up, thereby canceling the effects of stacking tolerances. Just make sure to tighten these very well.

As SS stated above, with this type of design, there is always the risk of the base moving when the screws work loose even slightly. But, it hasn't moved yet after about 2 years, and the quality is very good for a $40 base, so I'll stick with it. I think it's actually a good choice for someone who's having problems such as what the OP described, as long as you're not depending on the rifle to defend life and limb. Or money.

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Originally Posted by winstsa1

Windage adjustable rings are a band-aid for a bigger problem. Who would build a nice rifle like this and put crap rings like Millet or Burris Z's. The Warnes are about as economical GOOD ring as there is,,There are lots better,go up in quality not down. Like I said if running out of windage you have other problems .... ???

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Care to substantiate that claim?? The Burris Z rings are fantastic. I use them on a few of my competition rifles (both centerfire and rimfire), and I would have no second thoughts about putting them on every rifle I own.

I was zeroing one of my 30-06 rifles yesterday that I had installed leupold scope base and rings on and at the range I ran out of scope adjustment and couldn't get the rifle to hit far enough to the right. I just loosened the rear windage screws on the mount and moved them in the direction needed and was able to zero the rifle and have adjustment left in both directions. So maybe the shooter needs to get a scope base with windage adjustments in it because there is a lot of side to side adjustment just in that part of the setup.

[img][/img]


Tried to post picture guys, not too good with this stuff...
I really like the Burris Extreme Tacticool rings. Pic is these rings on an EGW 20MOA base. I have to disagree about the Burris rings being "crap". They don't have to cost $150 to be "quality". I bet if Burris boosted the price on these by about $100, suddenly a bunch of these guys would be singing their praises about these "quality" rings...

I hope Burris is not listening!

lol i here that all the time barrel-nut even at the gun club i'm in when i go to the line some of the guys kinda look down at my savages (when they were stock) these are the same guys i beat in f-class each time. on my 223 i have a egw base (heard i should have gotten a farrel) burris extreme rings and a vortex crossfire (told its a cheap scope and will not hold up to get a leupold) holds true tracks true not as good as my sightron i have on my lrpv but cost 1000 less(i will replace in the future). oh and my red accutrigger that beaks at a smooth 8oz. .thier thinking is if you dont spend 3k on a custom gun its not a shooter .on thing i did start doing is use a scope alignment tool and lap the rings.

One thing I discovered (the hard way) is that if you're gonna lap aluminum rings such as the XTR's, it better be a very LIGHT lapping job! Ask me how I know! :'(

I really like the rail system with these rings because it makes swapping scopes as easy as loosening two 1/2" nuts, swapping scopes, and retightening said nuts.

Keep whippin' em with those cheap savages lal357 ;D

i guess my picture didn't make the journey.... I never have figured this out.. HELP!

A couple of my rifles have the fillister type screws. I bedded the 1-piece base to the rifle. I insert all four screws, but barely and I mean barely snug them down, so as not to warp the base, until it cures. Time will tell in my case if this is going to work.

Luckily my set-up worked the first try. If yours is off when you bed them, then I guess you are SOL..

I suppose you could bed the base and use a bore sighter to line up the scope before it all cures. Then when it is cured and you torque everything down, your scope has enough adjustment to put a true zero on it. My thought is if it is bedded it shouldn't move.

Hope you find a good answer either way.

Coyotejunki,
Attach your base and scope and sight the rifle in to make sure everything is working like you want. Mark the base and action so that when you bed the base you can line the marks up and you're good to go. Brian Brown.

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

One thing I discovered (the hard way) is that if you're gonna lap aluminum rings such as the XTR's, it better be a very LIGHT lapping job! Ask me how I know! :')

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Dont have to. Messed up a set of Warnes' that way. Now I us never sieze to lap aluminum.

"I just loosened the rear windage screws on the mount and moved them in the direction needed and was able to zero the rifle and have adjustment left in both directions. So maybe the shooter needs to get a scope base with windage adjustments in it because there is a lot of side to side adjustment just in that part of the setup."

True. And on a mild recoiling rifle they're fine. I wouldn't trust that rear ring though on something with a lot of recoil since there's very little there holding it in place. The front reing takes the brunt of the recoil in that setup. With a Weaver/Picatinny style base and rings you have a much stronger setup for withstanding recoil due to the cross slots and bolts albeit with the lack of windage adjustment you have with the Leupold/Redfield style. But that's where the beauty of the Signature rings shines.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

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Originally Posted by barrel-nut

One thing I discovered (the hard way) is that if you're gonna lap aluminum rings such as the XTR's, it better be a very LIGHT lapping job! Ask me how I know! :')

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Dont have to. Messed up a set of Warnes' that way. Now I us never sieze to lap aluminum.

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Good idea stangfish! I actually never tried it again with aluminum rings after that initial mishap- but it would probably work a lot better with never sieze, or even Flitz polish. Just be careful- if you lap too much, the scope won't be properly SQUOZEN by the rings! ::)

Happy New Year to all!