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Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Right now I have a 110 on 30-06 and was looking for a flatter shooting build. 7mm rem ultra mag comes to mind. We shoot a lot on the power lines and shots presented can be from a few yards to up to 400 yds. We shoot a lot out of sturdy structures so it makes the long shot a lot easier. I have only shot the 30-06 so I am not too familiar with most other calibers that might be better suited. I like to hear opinions. I will be reloading and probably using Nosler bullets.
Thanks
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
a ultra will be like hitting them with a train. if 400 is the goal shoot a 6mm or 6.5. lots of good cases out there.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
243AI, 6mmAI, or 6.5x55 all sound like great choices
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Ive hunted Upstate NY, NC and SC deer. It dosent take too much to put them down w/ a proper shot. A good 6.5mm retains enough energy at that range. I took the biggest buck I have ever shot last year opening day here in NC at 320yds. w/ a 7-08, 22" skinny hunting barrel, 3-9x compact scope w/ a 140gr. Nos. bal tip, top of back hold and it buckeled, ran 25-30yds and that was it, shot clean thru it. The load was 2800+fps at the muzzle and shot clean thru it. I ran the numbers and my 260AI retains as much if not more energy at 1000yds as a 300win mag so, it would def. get the job done at 400yds.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
So the ultra might be a little overkill... ;D I will probably have the opportunity this weekend to shoot a 7mm reg mag. Most of the guys on the lease are using that. Im not writing off the 6mm but the statistics on paper seem to favor the 7mm for a flatter trajectory. The 7mm rem mag for a 150 gr bullet is only 1/4 inch lower at 300yds than what the 7mm rum for the same bullet so I cannot see why to go for the added kick and faster wearing barrel cartridge. Would love to be able to try a 6mm to have something to compare as far as recoil. Im loosing just 1/2 an inch between the 7mm rem mag and the 6mm using 2957 fps on a 95 gr bullet.
Thanks for the info.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
While I think everyone should buy a new gun once in awhile, I'd look into a quality scope with a mil reticle, save your money and load/buy ammo and learn your rifle. There's nothing a 7mag will do at 400yds that an 06 won't do. That is if you know what your doing, no amount of velocity makes up for not knowing your gun/load. If you are trying to use a mag/ultra hi super faster than speed of light catridge to make up for lack of long range shooting knowledge your not taking an ethical shot anyways.
That said I'm partial to the .270win.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
AKShooter, you make many assumptions with very little information.
You dont know what scope I have or what reticle is in it.
I can shoot to 325 yds without making a change on the scope elevation turret with the use of my scope reticle. With a 7mm rm I will be 2 inches low at 400 using the same reticle (assuming the calculator is correct). I cant do that with the 06.
You assume I dont know my rifle. I have a chart in my rifle just under the safety with all the amount of clicks needed to be zeroed from 50 to 400 yds in 50 yards increment and a drawing on my rear scope flipup cover with the rage of every markings on my scope, tested on paper. I shoot quite a bit, not as much as I like though, it is getting expensive and I find myself short on time.
The 7mm with the scope I currently have will allow me to shoot to 400yds without having to do any adjustment on my elevation turrets.
I rather change the barrel (and buy the associated reloading supplies) than the scope any day, specially when I almost paid 900.00 for the scope.
We will talk about ethical shots another day, this thread is about choosing a caliber for sc deer.
I see your partial so the 270 win, it looks ok on the calculator, I appreciate that input. I have been looking at a barrel in the classifieds here. I might get it just to play with it.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Easy choice would be a 280 AI. Same bolt head as the -06 with the performance of the 7mm Rem Mag (don't even consider a RUM for SC deer). A .260 AI, 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5x284, 7mm-08, 6.5x55, or .25-06 is more than enough to take a deer at 400 yards as well.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
25-06AI 108gr JLK @ 3500-3600fps
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I have a model 219-b 30-30 that would be good for deer if you are interested in it
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
@mpm you need to be a paid member to have access to the member classified section. The membership is well worth it, but the 30-30 at 400yds however is not.
I personally shot a 7 remington for a couple years, it's a great round for when you run into some of the longer stuff and you don't want to have to worry about too much elevation. I enjoy not having to worry about drop estimation in the field, zero at 300 and you'll do fine. Not to mention it makes for a great excuse to take a magnum out chuck hunting for "practice..."
-Jake
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
All of the above sound like good suggestions to me. My 2 cents:
I'm a fan of 6.5 mm as a do-all caliber. With good shot placement with the right bullet, any popular 6.5 should have enough velocity and energy to 400 yds for deer. The trajectory of a 6.5 is about as flat as they get out to 400.
Try 6.5 Swede in long action or .260 Rem in short action. Factory loaded ballistics are identical up to 140 gr bullets. The 6.5 Swede has more room for growth if you're handloading.
One step below 6.5 is the 6.0/.243, but I think energy is on the lighter end of acceptable at 400. One step above is the 7 mm, but I think recoil is heavier than necessary. 6.5 is my happy medium.
Of course, there's nothing wrong with .30-06 as a 400 yd whitetail caliber.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Actually .243 Win has a flatter trajectory, but I'm in favor of the greater energy of 6.5.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I am going to go against the grain, and save you some money. Keep the '06, and reload it with the Barnes 110gr TSX. Now read this part carefully.....loaded with the Barnes data you can get OVER 3600fps. Now in case you're wondering about that little bullet, keep this in mind. It is a TSX and will not blow up on a 100yd shot, and at 400yds it still retains almost 1200ft lbs of energy and a little over 2200fps velocity.
Now the good part. According to ballistics charts, (mine and remingtons) their 7mm Mag, 140gr express loads, zeroed at 280yds give you a point blank range (6" target) of 330yds, and is 12.5" low at 400 with 1500ft lbs energy (slight advantage there, but not needed on deer), the 300 WM with the 130gr TSX is a twin of the 7mm Mag with the 140.
The 30-06 with the 110gr is only 10.5" low at 400yds. Better than either of the above in trajectory, and you keep the setup you have now.
Sooooo, you just need to go to the Barnes site, get their bullets and load data, and re zero rifle and you are all set. ;D
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Overkill seems to be the M.O. today but nobody needs anything more than a 260 to reach 400 with enought oomph! to take deer. I have shot a 270 for years and dropped a few past that target range but very rarely do you ever need to. The new 260 is a better choice IMHO. It hits your shoulder less but still packs the wallup at range. The monster 7's would be a better choice for shots way past 600 Plus, Plus.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Keep the 06 , start reloading get a 150 or lighter bullet that shoots good and call it quits
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I already reload nosler 150 grain ct sbt.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Drop in a 25-06 barrel and be done with it.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
After much advise here, in other forums and on person I have narrowed to a 6.5 or 7 mm. I'm going for the 7mm since I can get the brass mmore readibly and everyone in the lease has one and I can note my poi for the 150 ct sbt 150 gr they all use.
Will post more once I start the project. Im considering this thread done.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Nandy
Your choice is your choice, and I hope it does exactly what you want, but to me, looking at loading manuals, you will be gaining about 200fps, using a 150gr bullet, over the '06 and using 40-50% more powder to do so.
Now if you just want to try something new, more power to ya. Like I said, hope it does what ya want.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
For Whitetail I like the 270 Win as it's worked for me here in Arkansas and in Colorado for Mule deer. I also use a 308 in Arkansas and I dropped two does a week ago with my Stainless Steel Savage American Classic in 308 with one shot kills shooting reloads with Hornady SST 150 grain bullets loaded to 2825 FPS.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Why not a 25-06AI you can't get much flatter than that!!!
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I will update you guys once I have the stuff going, 7mm Rem Mag it is, no chance to go back now.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Nandy
I am sure the big 7 will reach out there. What bullet(s) do you have in mind to try out?
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I dont have my nosler book with me but it will play with the nosler silver ballistic tips and the nosler partitions. Somewhere from the 140g to the 150g for the sbt and from the 140g to the 160 on the partitions. I seen what sbt 150 does to whitetails on the 30-06 so I know that will work fine so I will start with the 140g on for both bullets then work a load for the 160g, if I have time and money left i will attempt to do a load for the 150g too but that is the last option. What will I end up using, still to be determined...
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
The 160's are a hair heavy for whitetails why don't you try the 140 accubonds I really like them in my 7 mag.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I thought about them, they seem a bit more than what i need but they are not out of the question. I have shot 160g before and I like the bc on it but if they all perform close to the same as far as accuracy I will choose the lighter (and possibly the cheaper) bullet as I am sure they will take down anything I will have in my sights. I found a skull of a hawg this year, if we start to see hawgs then I will favor the 160 accubond being all the same.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Those 140 and 150 gr bullets gonna do more damage. The 160s are where it's at. I shot bergers ballistic tips in the 140-150 range and had some excessive meat damage so I went heavier. 160 gr Sierra gameking does very well and was pleased with the 162gr Amax and 168 gr hunting vld performance plus has very high bc. I will say all deer were bang flop with every bullet tried. Remember that lighter faster bullet is gonna shed velocity/energy faster as well.
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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.744553,-92.533682
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Only one supplier has replied back on my quote for the new barrel and brake and I have the option of chromoly or stainles. Other than obviously being different materials and the stainless being more rust resistance, what are the advantages or disadvantages? Also, seems I will be getting the barrel with the brake already installed. Any downside to that? This is the brake that I was quoted: http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/picts/muzzlebrake02.jpg. So far this is the only vendor that has contacted me so I am not holding my breath much for anyone else, im staring my project by the second week of February...
I dont seem to find a complete bolt head for the 7mm in midway usa, who else might have it? I dont want to be messing with springs, little pins and such, I want a complete bolt head so I can just swap it whole. I might even end up getting a complete bolt but im not sure if my budget will allow that yet.
Thanks!
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I have heard that the stainless barrels do not last as long. Heard that from a few suppliers, BUT, that would be more of a concern for a bench rifle than a hunting rifle. Unless you pump thousands of rounds a year through your hunting rifles, it a non issue.
I have no idea on the brake issue.
I think Fred at SSS (one of the forum supporters) has complete heads, and maybe bolts too.
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Alright, SSS will do the job for me. They will give me a call when ther are ready for me to send the action. This is what I am getting done:
Stainles stell 7mm Rem Mag, 26" 1-9 varmint contour 0.820", Brux barrel with Freds muzzle brake.
Tread protector for brake.
Time and truing the action.
Bolt body fishnet Fluting.
Im a bit excited to say the least... Will obviously report later as we move along in the project...
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
Now the tough part.....the wait!
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I know! Trying to keep myself busy picking the reloading stuff, searching for an elusive cheap short action and another project I have runing paralell to this one. Soon I will be plagued by sleepless night as the delivery time nears....
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
I shoot a 7 mm rem mag when I rifle hunt.
It is a lean mean killing machine
4350 CCI BR primers Hornady 139 gr SPBT with the cannulure.
They will shoot !
PSE EVO 57 Lbs.
Blacked out
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Re: Building a hunting gun for SC whitetail
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You guys are too serious. I think mpm was trying to inject some humor. Lighten up.
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Got the rifle, I have yet to shoot it, will post more later....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Nandy
Got the rifle, I have yet to shoot it, will post more later....
Do not forget the pictures.
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This is how the bedding job turned out.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...812_163935.jpg
There a few places that it did not turned out like I wanted. I might add more to the front of the recoil lug. I want to get lower rings also. Maybe a paint job in the future. Going to shoot it Friday. Will start with factory load but migth have reloads ready.
Here is how it looks now.
http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/n...812_183615.jpg
Will report later...
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I would work up a good load with the 165 gr BT in the 30-06 and try it.
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You are obviously not following the thread. I got it re-barreled to a 7mm rem mag and have not shoot it yet... why will I come back to the 06 without trying the $800 plus in upgrades?
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Went to the range today... It was one of those days that not much seems to go right... Spent there 5 hours being chased by big arse mosquitoes, I mean these things were huge! Larger than flies and had no problem stinging you thru your shirt. That on itself made me rush my shots as if you stay still they will eat you alive. The rifle is shooting high after the bedding of the base. I can't dial it down anymore so I need to put the base back the way it was before. I am about 12 inches high at 200 yards and like 8 inches high at 100 yds. The chrono only recorded 9 shots from the rl22 and none when I shot the rl19 so I have no good data. I did noticed that the shots I did get did not went up in speed like it should have. I shot them in order from the lowest load to the hottest and even when not all the shots were counted the shots that were clocked should have been up. Something definitely went wrong when I did my reloads. Never had that problem before. I had plenty of clover leaf groups but after revising the video ( I take video of the shots impact so I dont have to worry about keeping track of what shot when were) non of those clover leaf are of consecutive shots. I did have a few follow up shots that touch each other.
However, that brake is super sweet!!!! I would have no problem resting that rifle in my head and shoot it. The last shot was without the brake and the difference was there and it was close to painful... Also it was not that loud with the brake, at least not to me. I had no one shooting close enough to me to ask. The barrel cleaned good and quick. I need a longer cable to be able to control my chrono. We shoot thru concrete pipes and my chrono is about 40 feet from the muzzle, im not sure if the problem was low light or distance from the muzzle.
Will order 200 or 300 more bullets and will try again in a few weeks, will check in back then unless something else happens...
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Ya know, it is late at night and I may not be thinking straight but you may wish to remove the carpet under your benchrest items. I would think that there could be subtle movement in the fiber that could be altering you POI. I believe the Anton Polyester might be the affecting your stability.
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When I was doing a gun full clean Saturday I found that the most rear screw in the base was loose and the one next to it was not torque properly. I am taking it tomorrow to a closer range (just 100 yards) and see if it is not shooting high anymore but I seriously doubt that will cure it, but it could be the reason why my groups were not as tight as i wanted. Waiting on midwayusa to deliver the next batch of nosler accubonds, I got them in 140 and 160... Also, I went to Bass Pro Shops and got me a new Hornady Lock-N-Load Bench Scale Electronic Powder Scale to compare to my scale side by side when loading to see if there is anything wrong with my RCBS RangeMaster 750. I did some mock charges and the Hornady was constantly .1 grain high but that was the only discrepancy I saw. I was expecting to find that my scale was messed up but I am happy to see it dont look like that at this time. If that Hornady is no better it is going back...
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My first guess, second one too, as to why you "can't dial it down anymore" is either the bottom of the recoil lug is touching bedding material or the bedding is lifting the rear of the receiver when you torque the screws down. As for the scales if you read the fine print they usually say they are accurate to within one tenth of a grain.
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It is a 20 moa base, I should have added that. Before I bedded the rear of the base I had about .04" inch gap at the rear. I used the base without bedding for the past 5 or 6 years, it is just now that I made the change and bed it, I wonder if that could have made this worst. It is a 57 moa scope, took 20 moa out of it already then maybe that .04 inch that it is sitting higher now might have taken the rest of the moa?
Of course, if that dont solve the problem tomorrow I will be looking in to relieving the sides and bottom of the lug or ultimately take all bedding out of this choate varmint stock to see how it works back to stock. I used tape around the lug while bedding it and torque the action to 30 in/lbs.
As far as the scales, Im aware of those being accurate 1/10 or a gr. What I was looking for was to see if the number varied drastically between the 2 scales. I have a beam scale from lyman but I dont have much faith on that one... I will get me a 5-0-5 in the near future...
Thanks for your input, I did not thought about the possibility of the recoil lug stressing the action up.
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Reading over my response I now wonder if when they say 57 moa scope they mean 57 moa over the mechanical zero or 28.5 over the mechanical zero... Will count once I get home.... If it is the latest I might have to remove that base...
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My guess is the 57 MOA is from one end to the other.
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Nandy this might be a stoopid question, and not meant to insult, but I have to ask it. Are you 100% sure the bases were not reversed front to back, assuming they even CAN be. This could easily account for the "shooting high" issue.
If those are correct, and the bottom of the recoil lug is clear, my guess is the bedding in the forward part is too thick. I know you torqued it down, but if the bedding glass is thick, and there is no place for it to squeeze out when torqued, it will not give. Unless the stock was sloppily cut, the bedding is usually a very thin, like 1/8", or less layer. Figure the stock was meant for the receiver to touch it, even when no bedding was in it, so the bedding is just to make it a smooth, 100% contact, so no shifting takes place. being too thick can be worse than too thin.