Model 12 LRP in 243 Win.

I recently purchased a new model 12 LRP in 243 Win and finally got a scope on it and all the reloading equipment I needed. Needless to say I was very excited to shoot and see what it could do. I have been extremely dissapointed with the performance. I have tried 105 gr. A-max and hornady 105 gr. BTHP's which I knew would be iffy since the LRP has a 9.25 twist rate. After measuring the OAL I put some loads together and so far everything has been about a 4" group at 100 yards. I then tried two brands of factory ammo and had similar results. I am just curious if anyone has ever had a similar issue or if I may be overlooking something? I shot my other guns just to make sure it wasnt me! I should mention that I tried Hybrid 100 and IMR 4350 for powder, I started at the starting load and worked up to max with both powders and I also tried several different seating depths. I have double checked all scope base screws, rings,and action screws to make sure they are torqued to spec. Thanks for any input!

How many rounds through that rifle? My most recent savage purchase (an Axis 30-06) took 60+ shots before it settled down. I have another savage that's still unfired. Going to put 100 rounds through it before I start load development.

I'd also make sure your barrel and barrel nut are floated. A little sanding may be in order.

I would suspect the scope.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

I would suspect the scope.

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^^^^This

It sounds like you have checked almost everything. Different factory ammo, different factory loads, everything is tight, etc.

Try it with a proven scope, and if it is still not shooting well I think you can safely conclude it is the rifle.

Have you actually measured the Twist, or is that just stated? It is common to have twists vary from stated by as much as half a turn.
In any case, the 9.25 twist isn't happily stabilizing that bullet.
So without having your specific velocity, it's tough to know.
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

Try the 87gr VMAX. I think the 105's need an 8 twist.

The gun has right at 90 rounds through it, and the 9.25 is the advertised twist. Velocities were between 2800 and 2900 fps with the imr 4350. I did not chrono the hybrid 100. I will try a different scope but it has a brand new vortex viper pst ffp on it so I would hope that isn't the problem. I was hoping to stay with as heavy of bullet as possible since this is the "long range precision" model. Thanks for all the replies guys!

I've ran all the way up to 42.5grs of H4350 with the 105 AMAX it like 3025-3050fps in my 8twist barrel. You're going to need more velocity to stabilize it. Just work up slow.

If you take LoneWolf's advice and over-load it, just remember that the 243 is infamous for random pressure excursions with heavy bullets and slow powders. You may find pressure spikes higher than anticipated, for no reason.

Be safe.

My 243 LRP will hold 1" at 200 yards with 105 Noslers and 41.5 gr H 4831. Worked well at a 800 yd F Class match.

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Originally Posted by crenollet

I was hoping to stay with as heavy of bullet as possible since this is the "long range precision" model. Thanks for all the replies guys!

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Take a look at the Sierra 95 SMK if the 105s don't work, that one was designed to be a long range option for "factory barrels", i.e. 9 twist barrels.

Thanks for all the tips guys, I will try a different scope and some 95gr sierras and post what I discover.

Well after trying a different scope and lighter weight bullets I still could not get the rifle to group. It seems like with every 5 shot group atleast 2 of the bullets would be up to 6 inches from the rest, there was no pattern to the direction they would go either. The gun is boxed up and I have a shipping label from Savage to send it back so they can check it out.

Try lighter bullets, 55 to 70 grain range, they work great for me in my stock Savage 243.

The problem I have with it is that it is marketed as a long range precision rifle and I would like to shoot the bullets designed for that, atleast as heavy as possible. This was my attempt at upgrading to a better setup for 600 yard shooting and farther when I could access a place to do so. I would hate to have to put a new barrel on a brand new gun so I could shoot 95gr and heavier bullets.

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Originally Posted by crenollet

The problem I have with it is that it is marketed as a long range precision rifle and I would like to shoot the bullets designed for that, atleast as heavy as possible. This was my attempt at upgrading to a better setup for 600 yard shooting and farther when I could access a place to do so. I would hate to have to put a new barrel on a brand new gun so I could shoot 95gr and heavier bullets.

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I understand. I have shot 55's, 70's, 95's, 100's, and 107's out of mine. the 55 & 70's held the tightest groups. The 107's weren't bad, but were no were near the others. Might try 105 Bergers or some JLK's. I have a few 105 JLK's (maybe a few Bergers) if you would like to try a few of these.

The 55's, 70's, 95's, & 100's were Federal Factory loads. The 107 smk's were hand loaded, probably the reason they did better than the 95 & 100's.

Just giving you my experience with my 243. I loved the rifle, I couldn't ask for anything better when shooting the 70 grain Federal NBT's. Pretty deadly on small game.

I appreciate the information, I have never checked out the jlk bullets but I just looked at the website and I will order some when I get the gun back but thank you for the offer! If savage can't find an issue with the gun I will suck it up and put a new barrel on it with a faster twist rate so I can enjoy shooting it.

Well if it were me, I'd be calling Savage, I have a 12 LRP in 6.5 Creedmoor, shoots Hornady 140 ELD M match Ammo 5 shots in .419. My 12 LRPV's in 22-250 and 6 BR both shoot under .5 MOA easily. I had problems with my 6 BR, they picked it up and now it shoots well.

Did they tell you what the issue was? I sent mine back a couple weeks ago and havent heard anything yet, just curious as to what it may be.

Send it to Savage. Assuming you and your equipment are good, it could be a bad barrel. Most likely the chamber.

Bill

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Feel your pain. I finally gave up wasting components on mine and re-barreled with a McGowen in the AI version.It had been back to Savage twice with no change in performance.

Well after waiting over a month to hear back from Savage I finally called yesterday, they said they have already shipped to gun back and it should be here tomorrow. When I asked what they found out they said it shot 70gr bullets into a .6" group so they did not fix anything. I was a little upset since I was told they would shoot the heavier weight bullets out of it. The way I see it, it wasnt a valid test since they shot completely different bullets than what I was having issues with. If I wanted a coyote gun and to shoot light bullets then I definately would not have bought an 11 pound gun. I was told to send it back but I might look into putting a different barrel on it so I dont have to deal with Savage anymore and so I can shoot the **** thing.

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Originally Posted by crenollet

Well after waiting over a month to hear back from Savage I finally called yesterday, they said they have already shipped to gun back and it should be here tomorrow. When I asked what they found out they said it shot 70gr bullets into a .6" group so they did not fix anything. I was a little upset since I was told they would shoot the heavier weight bullets out of it. The way I see it, it wasnt a valid test since they shot completely different bullets than what I was having issues with. If I wanted a coyote gun and to shoot light bullets then I definately would not have bought an 11 pound gun. I was told to send it back but I might look into putting a different barrel on it so I dont have to deal with Savage anymore and so I can shoot the **** thing.

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Not enough twist for the heavier bullets is my guess. I think i am experiencing the same issues.

How did this end up? I would like to shoot the Amax as well. I'm looking into the best powder to get it 2900+ to stabilize it.

I don't have a lrp but have a model 11 vt that I'm running 105 amax over 40.9gr hybrid 100v right around 3000 fps with 1/2 inch groups.

Go to berger bullets website. They have a twist rate calculator. They recommend at least a 1 in 8.5 for their 105's. Stupid oversight by savage imo. Who wants to shoot medium bullets for long range? Not me. Rebarrel to a creed or lapua so you can seat the long bullets out. Maybe pickup a savage creed barrel for cheap here in the classifieds? That just sucks. I feel your pain.

Agreed on the Savage oversight. I wish i had realized the twist difference (iwas also looking at creedmor at the time). Myself, I want to avoid the Creedmoor band wagon and stick to 243 buy that means a custom barrel to get the twist I need. But if I'm buying, do I change calibers to 6.5c or not. I'm already setup for loading 243, can always sell those items. Ugh.

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I had a hard time going to 6.5 x 47 lapua. I too was a long time lover of the 243. I still am but shooting the long range bullets is not ideal for them in a short action simply because of the magazine length. Yes you can single load them but that limits you a bit. I am currently running 130gr bergers in the 2930-2950 fps range with the 6.5 x 47 lapua so compare that to the 105's in a 243....

If you rebarrel with a 243 go with the AI version. Fireform a box of Lapua and your set for alot of shooting!

I had no problems stabilizing 105amax from a 9.25" twist 22" bbl mod 11. During load work up they stabilized at all velocities. Start charge weight made around 2,550 fps in the freezing Canadian winter at nearly sea level. No problems

Try working up a load around 43gr of H-4831 / H-4831sc. If that doesn't shoot then the barrel is a paperweight.

Picked up LRP in 243 in 2012 and found accuracy node right away with H4350 using Hornady 105gr AMAX. Fed 210 primers and Federal brass. First and best node found with 36gr H4350, Jump 40-60 thousandths. Similar loads and results with Berger 105 and 107 SMK, each with slight variances in Jump. Muzzle FPS around 2850. Many have noted another accuracy node with higher powder charges but its nice to save barrel life being less hot. Has been reliable with no pressure signs, accurate and great brass reuse for over 5 years now.

Now, anyone made progress with loads for new Hornady 103gr ELD-X in .243 Win?

Always research reloading books from powder and bullet makers when reloading and stay between min and max charges which in my case was almost right in middle range.
Good luck, use reloading best practices and be safe!

May 2,2021 Update: After Lots of Load testing for last couple years, I found an operational Load for My Savage LRP(.243) with Hornady ELD-X Bullet. Using H4350 at 38.0grs seated 10 Thousandths off rifling, I found a load tested 100-300 yards, Sub-MOA. Unfortunately this load had to be loaded single shot as OAL was to long for magazine. BUT today I worked up a Load with a COAL of 2.795 that would fit and operate properly from my DB Magazine.
The LOAD uses 37.9gr H4350 with a Jump of ~95 Thousandths off the rifling. This yielded 5 shot group Sub-Moa at 5/8th Inch Center to Center. MFPS = ~2880.
Temp 66 Degrees, Altitude = 5,280ft. ( Boulder Rifle Club ) and Yes, the twist on my Savage LRP(.243) is 1:9.25. No tumbling with perfect holes out to 300yards.

So for all that said the Savage LRP(.243) could not stabilize Hornady 103gr ELD-x with out 1:8 twist. It can be done just like it can for Berger105, HornadyAmax105, HonadyMatch105 and SMK107(Each shot from this rifle in Bench Rest Competitions).
This Barrel has over 2000+ Shots already and with the New H103gr ELD-X Load that fits the DB Magazine - My LRP can continue as a High Accuracy Hunting Rifle and retire from use in Bench Rest Comps. More load tests for future from 37.5gr H4350 - 37.9 to check if OCW load.