Strange grouping issue

Hi folks. I've realized something strange about my 110FCNS 30-06. My rifle shoots high and left by several inches, and groups terribly, for the first few shots until the barrel heats up. Once its warm I can hit bullseye repeatably with MOA or better grouping. I think I'm doing everything right on my part....dry-fire exercises, consistent cheekweld and grip etc. I'm NOT cleaning the bore between trips because it shoots better dirty. Is this normal? How can I rely on a rifle that doesn't shoot consistently on the 1st cold bore shot.

Just for clarification... does it shoot tight groups if every shot is from a cold bore (like a good 4-5 mins between each shot)?

Bedding issue. Make sure the Barrel is free floated, make sure to look around the tang to ensure its free floated also.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by foxx

Just for clarification... does it shoot tight groups if every shot is from a cold bore (like a good 4-5 mins between each shot)?

---

No, Cold shots group poorly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seanhagerty

Bedding issue. Make sure the Barrel is free floated, make sure to look around the tang to ensure its free floated also.

---

I'll double check the bedding. Its an Accustock and the last time I checked everything was tight. But I'll go back and look again.

Hand loads or factory?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by foxx

Hand loads or factory?

---

Federal blue box.

I don't know. Something sounds whack to me. If you hand load I would say try different bullet or powder. The fact you do get good warm barrel groups, but SEVERAL (?) inches away from cold barrel "slop" is mind boggling. It makes the whole thing worthless for hunting purposes. The fact it is an Accustock tells me you don't have a bedding problem.

Is it free-floated? (Can you slip a piece of paper under the entire length of the barrel?) Is the rear tang free floated (can you slide a business card under all sides of the tang)? If so, then I would remove the stock, reinstall it, and try again. Then try shooting groups with different amounts of torque on the action screws. Sometimes you'll find it likes more on the front screw, less on the rear screw. That can get expensive with factory ammo, I know.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SniperGoat

Federal blue box.

---

It might be the ammo... My 30-06 loves hornady american white tail for the range and superformance for hunting... I would buy a different brand like hornady for instance... Clean the barrel really good and try ... Some rifles dont like a particular brand... Ive seen it all the time... 4 of us went and bought all new rifles... 5 rifles were purchased and all kinds of brand of ammo... My buddy and i stucked to one brand and the rifles were excellent on that brand... Nosler and hornady... The other 3 rifles where all over the place with federal, win, and more... Until they found the ammo they were content with

I tend to agree with a problem in the stock. The fact that it shoots better warm tells me that something is expanding with the heat and either tightening or loosening. I.E. forearm screw is slightly loose so barrel warms and tightens up the barrel channel or the screw is overtightened and the resulting warmth causes screw expansion and relieves the tension. I don't know what is in an accustock, is it an aluminum bedding? If so, aluminum expands at a different rate than steel when warmed. I would check all of your stock screws first as mentioned earlier.

BW

On the homepage is a tutorial about the accustock and how to torque it properly.If all you did was tighten without the sequence ,it could be a real problem.The factory may not of tightened it correctly either.Read the article and try the rifle again.

The difference between cold and hot was about 5 inches high and 2.5 inches left. Last time I checked the a dollar bill would run under the barrel. Not sure bout the tang part. The accustock is an aluminum bedding block that is affixed to the stock. My manual calls for tightening one screw before the other but it doesn't say how tight to get it. I'm cautious about over-tightening aluminum threads so maybe I need to revisit this area. I'll check it out and report back.

you can look at the article/instructions on tightening the accustock, but that was written before changes were made to it such as removing a wedge on the front screw. The newer accustocks are not quite the same. For example, there are only 2 screws to tighten, the article refers to 3. But it does give you an idea that it may be better to tighten one part way before the other, then go back to the first, then the second, etc. Regardless, I think you'll find yours will shoot better with a particular amount of torque on one screw and less on the other. Which one might be different for everyone.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by foxx

you can look at the article/instructions on tightening the accustock, but that was written before changes were made to it such as removing a wedge on the front screw. The newer accustocks are not quite the same. For example, there are only 2 screws to tighten, the article refers to 3. But it does give you an idea that it may be better to tighten one part way before the other, then go back to the first, then the second, etc. Regardless, I think you'll find yours will shoot better with a particular amount of torque on one screw and less on the other. Which one might be different for everyone.

---

Yeah; that seems like a good place to start. Luckily mine doesn't have the wedge because that seems like a big PITA.

SG -

I have an older 110 that acts the same. I always thought it was a "fouling" issue. After the original owner told me that the rifle HATES to be free floated. I went to the range in cold weather and shimmed the front of the stock and it was dead on. I guess my range time in the Texas heat allowed the barrel to warm up enough after 1-2 shots that it started to contact the stock and group well.

Maybe you have a barrel that doesn't react well to being free floated. Might be worth a try to shim it. I have mine shimmed permanently now (until I get around to replacing the barrel).

Hmmm interesting. Thin profile barrel "whipping around"?

Ok I had a few minutes to spend with my rifle today and the barrel is free floated. The rear receiver area seems to stand off from the stock uniformly everywhere EXCEPT for one little spot where it very slightly touches. I can work a piece of paper in that spot but it meets some resistance. Now the problem: I was checking the tightness of my action-to-stock screws and noticed that although the front screw was relatively tight it did still have some turn in it. But I didn't stop there....I decided the remove the stock and have a look under it and when I put it back together I stripped the hex head part of the front action screw. I was using the proper 5/16 allen wrench but it has always felt a little loose in that particular bolt. Anyways I'm able to put a metric on there and finish but I'm not sure if its tight enough. As far as I know there is no specification of torque; now I need a new screw :-( I'll take it to Bayou City Bolt tomorrow and see about a better quality replacement. My goal is to shoot it again this Saturday.

Please let us know the outcome

I would try what Thallos said, I have seen that also and new a guy who put bedding material all down the barrel channel

Got my rifle back together after a little sanding inside the stock. Hopefully I can hit the range tomorrow if the weather allows. I'll report back.

Get bolts that use a larger hex. Install both bolts (just snug). Bump butt of rifle on floor lightly but firm to move the lug tight to the stock. Then torque the bolts in 15 inch pounds starting with the front screw until you reach 45 or 50 (inch) pounds. Make sure it is floated at the very tip of the stock. I make sure there is a lot of clearance there. Way more than a dollar bill. Especially since the dollar bill has gotten so thin lately (just joking) but it still isn't worth the paper its printed on!

I sold the rifle yesterday. I've had it long enough to put 360 rounds through it but I just could never get satisfied with it. I'm not happy unless I'm hitting bullseye at 100 every time, and that is expecting to much from an off-the-shelf hunting rifle with a thin sporter barrel. Luckily I found someone that wanted to buy it for hog hunting, so I made him a good deal. From here I'm going to get a heavy barrel bolt rifle and start from scratch again. Maybe a Savage 110FCP with HS Precision stock :-)....or just build a custom Remington 700.

I'm not necessarily blaming the gun either; it could be the scope, rings, base, or just me :-) Either way I just decided to do something different.

Well I ordered a new rifle....another Savage :-) This time I'm going with a .308 caliber Savage 10FP with a threaded and fluted heavy barrel with 5R rifling, mounted onto an H&S Precision stock.

My thought was possibly the barrel nut was a wee bit loose, and the small amount of slop between the barrel and the action threads tightened up as the barrel warmed up.I guess we'll never know now, good luck with the new one.

The barrel nut loose on a factory Savage! That would be the day! :-))

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by FW Conch

The barrel nut loose on a factory Savage! That would be the day! :-))

---

Yup, probably at least a bit far-fetched. Then again, so are the symptoms.

Try a few types of ammo next time. Since its a 30-06 gest some federal gold medal match ammo and run that through there, it should shoot that well. When handloading you can customize the ammo to the rifle but when buying factory ammo you can't so you have to try a couple different types to see what the rifle wants. Ammo manufacturers use different bullet, powder, and seating depth combo's in their ammo and this makes a huge difference in how it shoots.

Sounds like barrel needs a certain amount of cooper build up before it starts grouping.....a lot of shooters will clean carbon out of barrel, but do not use cooper solvent until accuracy starts going away....I would bet if you cleaned bore with just an oil and no solvent rifle would remain accurate.....