Replacement Stock Recoil Lug Cutout

I recently received a Boyds varmint Thumbhole stock to replace the factory plastic on my FV112.
I am also changing the barrel from a 22-250 to a 260 Rem (both varmint contour).

The Boyds stock had a few minor finish issues, I decided I could deal with myself. Anyone know what they use as their top clear coat? There are a few areas that look a little thin or need a little fill and I think it could have another coat and then a good rubout. But I don't want to use an incompatible product and end up redoing it from scratch...
After reading dozens of negative experiences dealing with their customer service... I considered myself a lucky with the types of minor oops I received... but that's another story.

What I'm concerned about today is the recoil lug cutout.
In my factory stock, it is only slightly thicker (back to front) than the 0.15" thickness of the OEM recoil lug.
I see that in another aftermarket stock below, it is also a thin cut.

Attachment 9846

In the Boyds stock I received, it is .46" -which leaves quite a big gap in front of the recoil lug when everything is in place. The barrel nut cutout seems ok, but the void would be underneath it (That wood fuzz is now gone).

Attachment 9847

When the action is in place, the recoil lug rides against the stock as it should. My concern is the large unsupported area in front of it.
Should I fill the void with something (leaving a 2 tape thickness gap) for removing the barreled action?
Acraglas, body putty...?

Another question is whether to install action pillars, glass bed the action, or do both.
I have never done either but have no hesitations about doing either (other than screwing it up)...

My initial thoughts were to just free-float the barrel as is for now but at this point I am wondering if pillars would be a good idea or if the area around the action needs to be bedded too.

Thanks...

Most would fill that with bedding compound while glass bedding the action to the stock. Also, sport on with the two layers of tape on the lug to allow clearance for removal. If glass bedding the action, many will also put two layers of tape under the rear tang where the safety is to float that area.

You could a Northlander recoil lug which is about .45” I believe, but to be honest you want the front and bottom of the recoil lug to be free from contact anyway, so leaving it alone won’t hurt anything as long as your barreled action makes good solid contact with the stock with the rear of the lug.

^ Like pdog said....

The action isn't going to want to move forward- so not a issue as long as good rear contact and the action screws aren't taking the load. Lots of aluminum chassis don't even have a cutout for the lug- just a surface for the lug to contact on the back side.

I would still bed it- but probably not necessary.

In order to get the most out of Your new stock, pillars should be added and the action bedded, IMO.

I did both to mine. In original .223 it made almost no difference. But, I was converting to .308 so decided it needed the works.

I would fill in the gap. Actually did that on my my Chassis. I shaped a piece of billet Aluminum & epoxied it in place. (Picture below) I’ve seen many times those who bed the Recoil Lug in the slot with just the tape as clearance. As you please.

As for bedding: If you care about this setup, I absolutely recommend Pillar Bedding. But if it’s just going to be a beater(which I can’t imagine), then a quick bedding job is fine. The enemy of wood stocks is Creep! Creep is the movement of the Action in the stock due to Action screws not maintaining torque. This happens because over time, wood compresses & holds that compression. The Aluminum or steel Pillars stop creep in it’s tracks! And any 2-part epoxy works. Acriglass, Devcon, JB, etc. I use Devcon Plastic-Steel exclusively.

https://i.ibb.co/BZ5qSrq/D1274123-C8...129-AF8-CC.jpg

Thanks for all the good advice...
I'm too old to be climbing rockpiles hunting, so this one will probably end up just a range toy.
Eventual movement in the wood is my concern... they may recoil in one direction, but they get stood and bumped all sorts of ways in the meantime...

I see Stockys has pillars for sale with the sear cut. I have a drill press, but will probably have to get a Fosner bit. So that looks like a good way to go.

Somewhere around here I have an unopened green/white box of acraglas I bought probably a dozen years ago that I never used, then sold the rifle...
I got part of a can of Johnsons paste wax I used to make bullet lube.. I think I can use as a release agent.

Acraglas, being 2 part, ya think it's still good after all these years? (If I can find it).

That spacer is a real nice Dave...

I would make my own pillars, but if you just want a ready to go set, look at Desh’s. https://deshind.com/product/savage-m...dding-pillars/ And yes, you can use a Forstner bit, but a regular drill works fine as well. Another option is a Brad point. For these I’d go 7/16” bit to allow plenty of epoxy around the circumference. And you don’t need the ultra expensive bits either. Not for wood. Brad Point would be my choice. Here’s a decent, inexpensive bit, made in USA. https://www.amazon.com/Drill-America...9&sr=8-32&th=1


As for the Epoxy, I’ve used 2-part that was several years old even after it was opened. It does lose a bit of over time, but even the several old stuff I used was still incredible strong. If it hasn’t been opened, it likely hasn’t lost much if any performance. You can always test it. Find a piece of scrap aluminum or steel & bond it to some scrap wood. Let it cure 24hours and test holding.

Thanks for those links, I'll check em out...
I did finally find the Acraglas... it was in the last place I looked...:o
the price sticker is from Vances in Columbus, OH $19.95... I left there in 2003
but the cellophane is still intact.... I'll test it like you said...

If you need to replace it, this is the Devcon Plastic-steel I use. Its awesome stuff for bedding.

https://www.amazon.com/Devcon-62345-Plastic-Steel-Epoxy/dp/B000H5S8KC/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3RFVTBU75705X&keywords=Devcon%2Bpl astic-steel&qid=1695687787&sprefix=devcon%2Bplastic-steel%2Caps%2C86&sr=8-1&th=1

EDIT- Googled for the answer.

I just used spacers sold in the hardware store, 1/4" IIRC. Cut to length. I do rough the outside up with a file to get a better bite with the epoxy. I've used JBWeld for years on various things so that's what I use for bedding as well.

I've had trouble with Forstner bits 'drifting' in deep holes with some wood (even with a good drill press). I like the brad point too for this kind of thing.

PS I don't think epoxy ever goes bad unless exposed to high heat. I've had some West Systems with the pumps on the cans (so not really air tight) and they were good for over 10 years.

Well, this simple barrel switch has turned into its own project... an example of the 'ol slippery slope.

The 23yo Acraglas kit is all dried up... who'da thunk? The box says it has a shelf life of 10 years, so now I'll get some fresh Devcon as mentioned and look around to see what kind of aluminum lug spacer I can make.

But first I need to finish the Alumahyde job I planned for the barrel, and Brownells is out of spare clean-out nozzles (just too many nightmare stories on that stuff not to be a prepared), so i may have to make those too...

Then the idea came to me that I might want to practice bedding on another stock before working on this one... I have a couple candidates I can mess with.

If I really wanted to make a project out of it, I'd put it back together, shoot a few groups with the factory stock, shoot some with the new stock then bed it and shoot a final group to compare if all the work was worth it... Looks like it's turning into a bigger project... I'm in no hurry... Winter is coming...

Thanks for all your help and guidance, your suggestions will be very helpful in the coming weeks, and I'll try to remember to update this thread as I progress through this...
I usually try to read as much as I can about a process beforehand, but inevitably I'll probably have a few questions...

al

You don’t have to use an aluminum spacer. That’s just how I did it because I have the tooling to shape it to perfect dimensions & a surface grinder to make it perfectly flat to within .001”. You can simply use the epoxy to fill the void. Tape the front side of the lug, which is the side against where the epoxy will go. Or you can bed the Recoil Lug as well. But you don’t need any kind of spacer like I used.

I just don’t want you to feel trapped into doing things one way. Many of the things I do is because I’m a DIY hobbyist, & I have the means. But I likely would have simply just used the Devcon epoxy on its own otherwise.

Dont forget the release agent on the action and anything you dont want the bedding to stick to. Otherwise you project takes another turn…lol

Yeah, I figure I could just fill the void with epoxy and be done with it, but if I get one of the small syringe applicators it might require too much of the epoxy, so my thought is not to make a precision fit spacer like you did but instead to just get a rectangular block to fill the extra space with something solid, then epoxy around it, to below the level of the nut.

I thought about using a couple recoil lugs and cutting the tops off to make the spacer w/cradle, but they add more cost. It takes a lot of effort to make a spacer with radius from scratch when epoxy is so much easier and more exacting.

My current dilemma is to go with a liquid epoxy like mentioned or to use a thicker putty/paste form. The liquid will squeeze into the nooks and crannies better, but can run & drip and become a mess, while the putty may be cleaner to work with it will require more attention to getting it to spread uniformly where needed... decisions, decisions...

heh heh, I can just see the look on my face when done, and it dawns on me I forgot the RA...

I'm a DIY too... here is one of my hair brained ideas I did from scratch about 5 years ago...

Attachment 9850

You will like the Devcon Plastic-Steel. It’s not a liquid. It’s more like putty. But not super-super thick. And it settles & fills voids very nicely. As I’m seeing it, it’s only about 1/4” of void you have to fill. That 1 dual syringe tube of Devcon I linked (25ml), or the squeeze tubes (1-ounce), should be enough to fill the void, install Pillars & completely bed the rifle. It goes further than you think. But if you’re worried,just grab 2. It’s inexpensive enough.

I agree. Definitely covers more area than you think and one tube should be enough.

For the action screw holes go to the hardware store and buy a couple 3” long 1/4-28 screws and cut the heads off them. Tape up the shaft so they fit snug into the pillar so no compound gets pushed down there. Screw them into your action before bedding and spray release agent on them as well. It will help you align everything when setting the action in, plugs the pillar and action screw holes, and also gives you something to tap on with a mallet to pop the action loose from the bedding the next morning. Works great

Good points. You can also use PlayDough to plug the small holes. Some even use it to plug the Magwell. I also strongly encourage watching some tutorial videos specifically on bedding the 110. Explaining in text, like we’re doing, is great. But a tutorial video is worth so much more than the written word alone.

There are many videos. I like this one by Vaughn Precision. He seems to know what he’s doing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUcVuytNER8

Videos are a fantastic way to learn. Just need to know how to weed out the good from the bad; the knowledgeable & well… not so knowledgeable. A person who can do that could learn open heart surgery from video today. It’s a different world from even 25 years ago when I was a very young adult. LOL! I know some of the older enthusiasts here don’t like that. Especially the Professional gunsmiths. They think people like myself are hacks or bubbas. hahahaha. That’s ok…many very “seasoned” Bladesmiths thought the same of me once. How dare a one armed cripple with no professional learning think he could what they, The Masters, do! They thought that because I learned to make the knives I do by reading & watching videos. Until that is, their work was put up against mine. Yeah.. they stopped calling me a “hack” or “bubba” after that. Good times

In the past few years I have done 3 Boyd's stocks and a Richards Microfit stocks for Savage. One was a Boyd's Spike Camp for a Blind mag Model 10. The second stock was a Richards Field Trekker for a DBM Model 11.. 3 and 4 were Boyd's At-One for the Model 11.

The Richards was completed and had it outside to take some finished pictures. I had the rifle leaning against a deck rail to set up bags and as I turned to grab the rifle a heavy wind gust picked up and blew the gun. It fell between the rails 4' onto a concrete pad. The stock split between the bolt notch and between the Trigger and mag well cutouts. That stock also had pillars installed. The rear pillar was broken out. After that I replaced with the At-One.

I have gone thru 2 At-One stocks for this Model 11. The first one I pillared and bedded. It shot very well for about a month then became erratic. Pulled the barrel and action to find the stock de-laminated between the mag well and trigger cut-out, yes on both sides of the pillar. Boyd's replaced the stock. The second one I only added a pillar to the front action screw. So I have had bad experience with Two Savage Stocks that have the DBM and trying to Pillar them. My opinion for what it is worth is there is not enough material between the mag well, action screw and the trigger cut-out to add a Pillar w/o weakening the stock.

When I started this venture I was getting help from a member on another form that had been a Stock maker and gunsmith for almost 50 years and he tried to warm me of this. He also stated that he did not pillar any stock that was less than a Magnum Caliber or being and old Mauser Action. The second Boyd's stock is now just over two years old and still tight. So this is something you might take into consideration.

Attachment 9853Attachment 9854

What epoxy did you use? I’ve never seen any of the epoxies I use split like that. And yes, while any 2-part will work, they do have different types & strengths. Also mixing it properly & thoroughly is crucial.

I’m sorry but your pictures are telling me a completely different story than simply a problem with Boyd’s stocks. And I’m no fan of wood stocks either. Any of them!

That's eye-opening, to say the least... Thanks for posing those pics, i'll have to look into that area...

I had considered their pillar option but didn't like the fact they would only install one, so I asked Boyds why. They told me there wasn't enough wood between the rear action screw and the trigger cutout so they wouldn't do it... I couldn't see any point in just one pillar, so decided I would do it myself.

Looking at the stock, there really isn't much space for even the normal action screw between the sear bar, let alone a larger pillar- I can see how this area might be weakened. At first glance there seems to be enough metal in the bent steel piece that forms the sear (right next to the action screw-where many pillars are notched for clearance)- that it might be possible to radius the metal & provide more screw clearance thus more area for epoxy reinforcement... I dunno - just a thought.

I plan on removing the trigger assembly but right now I am having difficulty getting the magazine box off - I have read all the tricks and tried everything I can think of (without bending something) and it won't budge... it almost looks like they staked the sides on the receiver to lock the front tab in. I may have to leave it on and tape/putty around all the angles, but I wonder how much epoxy could run down any gaps I can't see in the mag well cutout- it would need to be dammed really well and still be able to pull the action out - a problem I'll have to chew on a while...
Attachment 9866

On another note, just a FYI on that 23 YO Acraglas... it still works ! I don't know how well, but I took another look, and it is still somewhat soft and mixable- I grabbed a couple random pieces and put them together last night, and it's solid today... I don't trust it enough to use for this project, so I'm gonna still get fresh epoxy, but I thought it interesting it still works - probably good for noncritical use...
Attachment 9865

There is an easy way. It’s better if you have a barrel vice, but if not, you need to somehow secure the rifle upside down on a bench. It’s important that it can not move. Now grab the Magazine Box with your hand and pull UP. Then tap the back side ​of the mag box with a rubber mallet. Keep increasing mallet wraps until it gives. It will finally pop right out. Once you have a “feel” for it, you can pop in hem out with one good SMACK with a mallet.


If you are nervous about installing pillars, just bed the Action. It’s still good to have the bedding. So think of it as it must have the pillars or nothing. You can do the bedding now, see how it performs. The pillars can always be added at a later date. You know?

So if I am able to get the box out... how do I get it back in without messing up something?
This one doesn't seem to want to flex like others I have read about... alternatively any tips or known procedure for bedding with the box left on?

I ordered a set of the Desh pillars so we'll see whey it looks like when they get here.
I think I may go ahead and load up some test loads before bedding.
Once I get the receiver prepped, the only time waster will be waiting for the alumahyde to cure.
Hope the fall weather holds till then.

Also Boyds answered my finish question... they said:

"If you did not order a high gloss finish and it is the standard finish, then any clear satin lacquer spray will match on the laminate."

Veeeeery carefully.. LOL!

Actually, if you worried, just leave. It. It’s perfectly fine to bed the Action with the Mag Box attached. I would use wax & release agent on it, but it won’t interfere with the bedding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KMW1954

In the past few years I have done 3 Boyd's stocks and a Richards Microfit stocks for Savage. One was a Boyd's Spike Camp for a Blind mag Model 10. The second stock was a Richards Field Trekker for a DBM Model 11.. 3 and 4 were Boyd's At-One for the Model 11.

The Richards was completed and had it outside to take some finished pictures. I had the rifle leaning against a deck rail to set up bags and as I turned to grab the rifle a heavy wind gust picked up and blew the gun. It fell between the rails 4' onto a concrete pad. The stock split between the bolt notch and between the Trigger and mag well cutouts. That stock also had pillars installed. The rear pillar was broken out. After that I replaced with the At-One.

I have gone thru 2 At-One stocks for this Model 11. The first one I pillared and bedded. It shot very well for about a month then became erratic. Pulled the barrel and action to find the stock de-laminated between the mag well and trigger cut-out, yes on both sides of the pillar. Boyd's replaced the stock. The second one I only added a pillar to the front action screw. So I have had bad experience with Two Savage Stocks that have the DBM and trying to Pillar them. My opinion for what it is worth is there is not enough material between the mag well, action screw and the trigger cut-out to add a Pillar w/o weakening the stock.

When I started this venture I was getting help from a member on another form that had been a Stock maker and gunsmith for almost 50 years and he tried to warm me of this. He also stated that he did not pillar any stock that was less than a Magnum Caliber or being and old Mauser Action. The second Boyd's stock is now just over two years old and still tight. So this is something you might take into consideration.

Attachment 9853Attachment 9854

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This happened to me once when I first tried my hand at bedding. I used a compound that didn't flow and I used to much. The result was the stock expanded rather than the compound flowing out from under the action. Over time and under fire it gave up. Now i take a few reference dimensions and use less medium so the bedding material doesn't act like a wedge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

What epoxy did you use? I’ve never seen any of the epoxies I use split like that. And yes, while any 2-part will work, they do have different types & strengths. Also mixing it properly & thoroughly is crucial.

I’m sorry but your pictures are telling me a completely different story than simply a problem with Boyd’s stocks. And I’m no fan of wood stocks either. Any of them!

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I'm guessing you missed the second paragraph where I mentioned it was accidentally dropped. That was the Walnut Richards also and not the Boyd's. Thought I had a picture of the delam on the Boyd's but I cannot find it. I had to cut the stock in half and email it to Boyd's before they would replace it.

Like I may have mentioned, my initial question led to another and another... This has become a project.
The bedding pillars I ordered were the wrong ones, so I am waiting for their replacements. I sprayed the barrel with Alumahyde (that went well) and now I'm waiting for it to air cure...
I've taped & waxed the receiver, but now see that there is a 1/32" sliver of wood showing between the receiver and back of the recoil lug... will that "compress upon firing or cause pressure & distortion? How to I relieve that... dremel out & build-back flush w/epoxy or...

Now I'm thinking about what to do about that sliver sticking out, how to install the pillars perpendicular, what to do about the front action screw escutcheon, and the order of steps to bed it...

So, I'm wondering if I should start a new thread where I can ask all my silly questions or just keep drifting this one in various directions (bedding related)...

Starting a new thread specific to the bedding might keep it more organized.
Not understanding the 1/32 sliver of wood. Can you try to post a picture? Or message me and I'll send an email address you can send a picture to.

Epoxy does go bad. You will know when you come back the next day and it is still soft. I have had to wait for a week one time with some RAKA. I stopped using theirs after the second time it happened. I was making wood boats for about 10 years before I got bored with it. I went with USComposites and never had any issues after that. I still have some that is about 7yo right now. I just used it and milled fiberglass filler to bed a Boyds Tactical stock from when they first made them. I have 3 different hardeners to adjust the speed of hardening. I will tell everyone this, Never use the fast quick cures as they are not strong at all. Use the slowest you can get away with.

Below is a pic with the receiver screwed in place.
The recoil shoulder "ledge" is the lighter line in front of the receiver (with the green arrow pointing toward it).
It's in a hard place to measure, but it seems to stick out about 0.02".

I am wondering how this would affect the recoil lug to receiver fit and if it would induce an angle or adverse pressure/recoil when everything is tightened down...

Also, if I need to make it flush, I need to figure a way to shave it off without making a mess of the inletting and possibly after relieving it, to build it back up to bear straight, smooth & flush with the lug (using a little epoxy). IF it isn't a concern, I'll leave it as is...

Attachment 9940

Nope! Don’t touch it. For starters, I think it’s more of a bevel you’re seeing there. Certainly looks like one in the photo. Second thing, even if the wood is sticking past a few Thous., the Barreled Action w/recoil Lug will seat & compress the wood where it needs to be when the Action screws are in & torqued down.

Thanks Dave, that's the info I needed to know.
The action screws were snug (not gut-n-tight).
Now that you mention it, it does look beveled in the pic... but it doesn't in person - 90* as far as I can tell (with and w/o the action in place), but I did wonder if it would compress or 'wear in' upon use.
I was worried there would be binding or uneven gap on the mating surfaces when assembled.

If it indeed is past the Action face too much, the Action Screws will be very difficult or unable to be screws in. If that happens, & the screws won’t screw in, then it may need modified. But again, if only a slight amount, the screws will seat & thread normally & the wood will compress.


A good note to live by, never pre-modify parts. Never modify anything based on assumptions. Only modify a part after you know it’s required. And even then, only perform a modification you are familiar with. Don’t ever alter/modify/machine anything because you think it should be done. Just some advice from a pretty OK fabricator.

Thanks for that good advice.
It will be easy enough to find out since I can screw the barrel+lug on and test fit to see if the screws will go in... if so, no worries...

.
.
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Yep, it all went together fine... I couldn't see that area (my x-ray vision is on the blink) but I had no trouble snugging the screws down, and I could feel the action move into position.
Thanks again... now I will start another thread on installing the Pillars...