Do all new scales REALLY suck?

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10-02-2016, 11:45 PM
glockr

Do all new scales REALLY suck?

I want to buy a beam-type scale so I started looking for online reviews. It seems like no matter what the brand, they all have lots of comments along the lines of "I have an XYZ scale from 20 years ago, and the quality of the new ones are nothing like the old ones. Best avoided unless you can find a good used one from 20 or so years ago." For example one brand that used to be metal is now plastic, another brand doesn't center or "settle" as well as the earlier model, etc.

Are there any current model powder scales around $150 or less that hold center, are repeatable, sensitive, etc? I'm not really interested in an electronic scale.
10-03-2016, 01:39 AM
Robinhood

One that is tuned by Scott Parker. Beam scales need to be cared for properly and stored with the beam off the base to maintain accuracy and repeatability.
10-03-2016, 05:18 AM
m12lrs

Yep

China ruined quality. Now we want cheap and disposable

What I did was buy a vintage ohaus 10-10 on ebay and sent it straight to Scott parker

Better than any new one
10-03-2016, 06:36 AM
XL105

Do all new scales REALLY suck?

Yobuck is a f in idiot
10-03-2016, 09:20 AM
BillPa

Quote:

Originally Posted by glockr

Are there any current model powder scales around $150 or less that hold center, are repeatable, sensitive, etc? I'm not really interested in an electronic scale.

You're best bet, find a new NOS or a used in good condition RCBS 502/Lyman D5/Ohaus D5 ( same scale) and have Scott tune it. You could /should jump on this one before its gone and have Scott tune it.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RCBS-502-Rel...wAAOSwI2xX8Z5T I'd' buy it but I already have a D5 and 505 I've tuned.:p

For less or the same cost of a new "made somewhere else" scale you'll have a scale which is accurate, repeatable and linear. Scott is a little backed up at the moment but its well worth the wait.

Bill
10-03-2016, 12:58 PM
nobody

I use my digital scale all the time. I calibrate it about every 10-15 rounds to make sure it is still right. I have never had any problems. it is dead on the money 99.9% of the time.
10-03-2016, 01:09 PM
m12lrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobody

I use my digital scale all the time. I calibrate it about every 10-15 rounds to make sure it is still right. I have never had any problems. it is dead on the money 99.9% of the time.

I have 3 gempro 250's keep 2 side by side. Weight each charge twice. If they agree I am good to go. Now this is only for precision ammo

For regular ammo I set up my powder measure and dump charges. Might weigh one every 10 rounds or so.
10-03-2016, 03:15 PM
nobody

Quote:

Originally Posted by m12lrs

I have 3 gempro 250's keep 2 side by side. Weight each charge twice. If they agree I am good to go. Now this is only for precision ammo

For regular ammo I set up my powder measure and dump charges. Might weigh one every 10 rounds or so.

oh man. now you've made me spend more money. I just ordered a second digital scale to double measure my charges!! thank you for the idea.
10-03-2016, 03:24 PM
nobody

I use my charge master 1500 for everything but pistol loads. I use a Dillon for that. I just single stage load all my rifle rounds. I had to order new .223 dies this morning. it seems my redding competition .223 dies all walked off some time between my last reloading venture. just glad the rest are there. I mean really the .223 dies? it has to be somebody I know!!
10-03-2016, 03:59 PM
nobody

I think I might know who it is now!! my 7.62 x 54r dies are gone also along with the powder for that load!!!
10-03-2016, 04:13 PM
m12lrs

I hate people that borrow stuff and don't bring it back.

time to repossess those items
10-03-2016, 07:04 PM
nobody

and maybe some teeth also!! my fingers are all bent and swollen from being young, tough and stupid. still a time comes when old, tough and crazy as bat **** falls into place. this is one of them times in my book!
10-03-2016, 07:10 PM
First Shirt

I've got an old Lyman balance beam, and an RCBS balance beam, and a Lyman electronic. They are always within 0.10 grain of each other, and since I'm not interested in pushing the envelope when I reload, it's not a big deal to me. The balance beams are 30+ years old, the electronic about 10.

Not much help, am I?
10-03-2016, 07:47 PM
m12lrs

Some use Lee dippers and are perfectly happy
10-03-2016, 10:28 PM
bearcatrp

I use a gempro 250 also along with a omega powder trickler. Use it for all my loads so I know exactly what I am shooting. Don't trust anything else. My reloads have the smallest fps difference between rounds since doing it this way.
10-03-2016, 11:56 PM
Robinhood

Quote:

Originally Posted by m12lrs

Some use Lee dippers and are perfectly happy

I have seen guys use a dipper and a credit card to make some pretty decent ammunition.
10-04-2016, 12:17 AM
foxx

I just let my pinkie finger nail grow out and use it.
10-04-2016, 10:37 AM
yobuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

I have seen guys use a dipper and a credit card to make some pretty decent ammunition.

A tea spoon, a trickler, and a scale goes pretty fast when you get the hang of it.
My scale is an old Redding beam scale I actually gave my father for Christmas in or around 1950.
Every so often I weigh a bullet, but other than that nothing has been done to it since new.
I do level it so the pointer is pointed at 0.
10-04-2016, 12:23 PM
sharpshooter

I've been using an old Webster oil dampened scale that my father purchased back in the 50's, using the "teaspoon" trickling method. The only thing I've done is changed the oil every 50,000 rounds....
10-04-2016, 06:37 PM
m12lrs

Quote:

Originally Posted by bearcatrp

I use a gempro 250 also along with a omega powder trickler. Use it for all my loads so I know exactly what I am shooting. Don't trust anything else. My reloads have the smallest fps difference between rounds since doing it this way.

I too have the Omega. Awesome trickier.

I have a charge master and I can throw a load with my Lee perfect powder measure, weigh on the gem pro and trickle with the Omega faster than the charge master and much more.accurately.
10-04-2016, 07:38 PM
jpx2rk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

One that is tuned by Scott Parker. Beam scales need to be cared for properly and stored with the beam off the base to maintain accuracy and repeatability.

Why do you need to remove the beam off the base?

I've tried the gempro 250, it now resides in it's box, too darn fickle for me. I use a RCBS 505 and small Frankfort Armory digital scale, they agree 99% of the time.
10-04-2016, 07:43 PM
cowtownup

Gem pro 250... +1
10-06-2016, 06:27 PM
Robinhood

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpx2rk

Why do you need to remove the beam off the base?

The pivot for the beam is a sharp edge. Vibrations that are absorbed by the unit from external sources cause it to skid around on the base causing the edge to dull. This causes a precision tool to become less precise. If precise loads are what you are after then a sharp edge is what you want to keep. Take a magnifying glass and good light and look at yours.
10-07-2016, 06:46 AM
J.Baker

I just bought a RCBS M500 a couple months ago and am very happy with it. It's all metal and works like a charm. Current U.S. nickels weight EXACTLY 5 grams, which equates to 77.16 grains (77.2gr) and I've verified it's accuracy all the way up to 6 nickels (463.2gr).

Not much more you can ask from a scale and they're $68.
10-07-2016, 09:08 PM
jpx2rk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robinhood

The pivot for the beam is a sharp edge. Vibrations that are absorbed by the unit from external sources cause it to skid around on the base causing the edge to dull. This causes a precision tool to become less precise. If precise loads are what you are after then a sharp edge is what you want to keep. Take a magnifying glass and good light and look at yours.

What do you consider "external sources"?

How do you go about sharpening the pivots' edge, and what abrasive to you use or recommend?
10-07-2016, 11:13 PM
BillPa

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpx2rk

How do you go about sharpening the pivots' edge, and what abrasive to you use or recommend?

I use a 150g flat diamond file and a loupe I "borrowed" from Maw's dust collectors make'n stuff, aka; gaudy jewelry. :p
BTW, the beam balance V shafts are only 1/2 of the equation. Just as important are the pan support hanger loop, it's knife shafts and the pan support "hook".
http://oi60.tinypic.com/25gruxx.jpg
The end loop's center must be in perfectly centered on the beam's center and have minimum outside to outside end play on it's knife shafts. The inside of the end loop and the inside of the pan support "hook" should also be polished like a mirror . A pan and support which seems to swing side to side almost forever is a very good thing!

Bill
10-07-2016, 11:22 PM
Robinhood

Good stuff BillPa

Quote:

What do you consider "external sources"?

The earth is connected to the foundation of your home. The earth has natural vibrations Like the Schumann resonance that are constant. Your table or bench acts like an amplifier. Then you have things like the sounds like jet airplanes, helicopters. You also have impacting such as a truck driving by etc... This is constant 24/7/365. Combine that with use and the edges wear.

Most people are unaware of the amount of vibrations all around them every day. See if there is a Seismograph located near you and check it out.
10-08-2016, 07:33 AM
jpx2rk

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillPa

I use a 150g flat diamond file and a loupe I "borrowed" from Maw's dust collectors make'n stuff, aka; gaudy jewelry. :p
BTW, the beam balance V shafts are only 1/2 of the equation. Just as important are the pan support hanger loop, it's knife shafts and the pan support "hook".
http://oi60.tinypic.com/25gruxx.jpg
The end loop's center must be in perfectly centered on the beam's center and have minimum outside to outside end play on it's knife shafts. The inside of the end loop and the inside of the pan support "hook" should also be polished like a mirror . A pan and support which seems to swing side to side almost forever is a very good thing!

Bill

When you say "swing from side to side" do you mean as you face the scale, the pan will swing freely INLINE with the beam?

Mine seems to swing "forever" as you say, and I get tired of waiting on it to stop, so I usually gently stop the swinging with my hand or finger and let the scale settle down again.

And thanks for the tips and replies guys
10-08-2016, 07:45 AM
Robinhood

Quote:

the pan will swing freely INLINE with the beam

You got it!
10-09-2016, 07:28 PM
BlackFenix

I just got a GemPro 250 and have been very happy with it!
10-09-2016, 10:13 PM
Robinhood

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackFenix

I just got a GemPro 250 and have been very happy with it!

The OP stated this

Quote:

I'm not really interested in an electronic scale.
10-10-2016, 09:13 AM
m12lrs

how accurate a scale do you really need?

those that only read to a tenth of a grain best you can hope for is +/- 0.10. Is that accurate enough for you? Probably. Find one of those 0.30 accuracy nodes and aim for the middle. No Problem.

Long Range competition shooter. Might or might not be good enough for you. Most weigh every charge and use extremely accurate scales. Does it make a difference? I doubt they would go to the trouble if it didn't.
10-10-2016, 09:54 AM
Robinhood

^ 'nough said.
10-10-2016, 10:54 AM
swamphonkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by nobody

and maybe some teeth also!! my fingers are all bent and swollen from being young, tough and stupid. still a time comes when old, tough and crazy as bat **** falls into place. this is one of them times in my book!

10-4 on that lol. Man it's like the last 10 years people have forgot there are still folks that will clean your plow. I had to make a young fella spit teeth for killing a little buck one night in my front yard. He wanted to act all puffy when I went out to say something it was along the lines of "what the fuahhmmm ahh Stop! Help HELP STOP." I don't have problems from him any more.
10-10-2016, 11:24 AM
yobuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by m12lrs

how accurate a scale do you really need?

those that only read to a tenth of a grain best you can hope for is +/- 0.10. Is that accurate enough for you? Probably. Find one of those 0.30 accuracy nodes and aim for the middle. No Problem.

Long Range competition shooter. Might or might not be good enough for you. Most weigh every charge and use extremely accurate scales. Does it make a difference? I doubt they would go to the trouble if it didn't.

Does it make much difference as to how famous most become?