I'm curious to know how much faster than factory you can hand load the '06. I've tried doing bing and google searches but haven't really found much. I'm specifically interested in 150 grain and 180 grain loads.
Thanks.
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I'm curious to know how much faster than factory you can hand load the '06. I've tried doing bing and google searches but haven't really found much. I'm specifically interested in 150 grain and 180 grain loads.
Thanks.
How fast are the factory loads going? How fast do you want to go? Is there a specific method to the madness? Are you looking for 300wm performance?
I don't have a chrono yet so I'm not sure, but spec'd velocity is 2900-2910 for 150 grain and 2700 for 180 grain.
Pitweiler, I'm not sure where you're going with this! Is your question a hypothetical? After 50 years of reloading, my question is always "how accurate can I get with the 150's and 180's?" Then, once I've developed the most accurate load, I go to my chronograph to record the MV of that most accurate load. Muzzle velocity doesn't kill; shot placement kills.
I'm trying to see how much faster the 30-06 can be loaded when compare to a 308 and a 300WM. Basically, I'm curious as to what the true potential of the 30-06 is. I imagine the factories load the round conservatively and there is more performance available.
I'm really just curious. I read a lot of people saying that the 30-06 is a marginal caliber for the biggest NA game, but that a 300WM is just fine. Curiosity is driving this.
According to one manual the 180 grain bullet in .308 can be loaded to about 2550, in .30-06 it can be loaded to a little over 2800, and in .300WM it can be loaded to around 3050.
However, speed does not kill, putting your bullet where it needs to go is what kills. I've seen plenty of big white tailed deer dropped by the .30-30. Peoples opinions on what should be used for hunting will vary greatly. I don't believe you need a 300WM to hunt elk, but I'm sure there are plenty of people who feel you do.
If you truly are curious about the potential of the 30.06, ask anyone that served during WWII.
It makes no difference how fast the bullet travels if you can't put them on target consistently.
Guys, I'm not asking about shot placement. All I'm asking is what is the highest velocity achievable from the .30-06 when hand loaded.
I should have been more specific. How much more versatile is the 30-06 than the 308 when hand loading? How much faster than a 308 can you push a 30-06? I'm working on drawing up some plans for a "do-everything" hunting rifle. I've got a 111 chambered in '06 and a 12 I could barrel to 308.
I didn't ask this question well. I should have been clearer. Sorry. What I really want to know is, is the 30-06 a more versatile round to load than 308? I know the 30-06 can be loaded down to 308 level, but can it be loaded up approaching 300WM levels?
Sorry for making this so confusing.
You can ream a 30/06 to 30 Gibbs and it still will not be a 300Win. That being said, if I could only have "one "high power rifle, it would be a 30/06! Read "Cartridges of the World". ;-)
We think much alike, my brother...Quote:
Originally Posted by FW Conch
Yes.Quote:
What I really want to know is, is the 30-06 a more versatile round to load than 308?
You can have it throated to shoot the 230/240 and still get a case full of powder for some .7 G1 BC's. I know a guy that pushes a 220 Nosler Partition about 2550 fps. Can't do that with a 308.
You can go light loads as well. my buddy loads his Garand with some light 168 loads and they shoot great in hi rifle with less recoil than LR 308 loads and very accurate.
If you are trying to win an argument with your friend, the 3006 is very versatile and has taken everything that lives on this continent without problems.
pitwieler, go here: http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp That site will give you a pretty good idea of what Hodgdon thinks are the safe limits for loading the 30-06. Not the final word, or the only word, but a good dependable guide.
Then, after you've perused the Hodgdon site, go here & read.
A lot....
http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.com...06-update.html
There is a plethora of information on The Riflemans Journal. How deep do you want to get into the shooting and reloading aspects of this sport.
Indeed, a plethora of pertinent prescriptions & propositions on the German's site.Quote:
Originally Posted by stangfish
I've read the riflemans blog before. I'll lol through hodgdon.
I looked at the hodgdon data and it doesn't seem to be much better than factory performance.
OK, pitweiler, you now know the "industry or SAMMI standard" for safe reloading of the '06, as far as Hodgdon is concerned. You will probably find somewhat different standards and recommendations in every reloading manual and every ballistic software program you look at. Once you know all that, then it's your call on where you go from there. If you push the safe, published limits, you risk injuring yourself, other people around your shooting bench, and your firearm. Are a couple hundred feet per second of MV worth it? I, personally, do not exceed the published standards, and I've been reloading for over 50 years. As I mentioned before, my preference is accuracy over speed every time.
Pitweiler,Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitweiler
In Handloader Magizine May-June 1973 issue 43 Bob Hagel wrote an article titled "Spry Septuagenarian 30/06". In this article Bob like you wanted to find the full potential of this old cartridge. The article was very informative like all of Bob's articles were. He found that the 30/06 is indeed "Spry".
With the best powder which was old discontenued Norma 205 powder and 150 grain Hornadys out of a 22 inch barrel Remington 700 velocity was 3021 FPS. With 180 grain Sierras 2825 FPS was reached.
With a 24 inch barrel Sako Finnbear velocities were 3103/2930 FPS with the same bullets.
Since N205 is no longer marketed Bob's next best powder was IMR 4350. Bob's 165 grain load is the one that I use. His rifle produced 2883 FPS but mine only does 2805. I have used his load since reading this article in 1973 in several different 30/06s with good results.
Anyone that is curious about the 30/06 should read this article but I have never seen it published except in the magazine that is laying beside me right now.
Regards, Keith
WBM,Quote:
Originally Posted by wbm
Many thanks for the link.
Regards, Keith
That information is really what I was looking for. Thanks!
You wont be able to go to 300 win mag speeds with an 06 due to its design.Basically the case is too weak to handle the pressure at those pressures.Who ever said it is marginal on all big game is not a rifleman.If you want performance then ditch the 06 and go with a 300 wsm or win mag period.
Back around 1970, Eleanor O'Connor, Jack's wife took an African Bull Elephant with a 30-06, shooting a 300grn solid bullet, to the brain. Jack and their PH backed her up, but the critter fell out from under them, stone dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonbearman
Jon,
In no way is the 30/06 case weak. I think that you do not understand that the brass case is only a gasket. The reason that the 30/06 is loaded to lower pressure is because of the older rifles not the case.
Also no one said that the 30/06 could match the performance of a 300 what ever. The reason that they have higher performance is that they have a larger capacity not because they have a stronger case.
The arguement of weak cases always reminds me of when people say rhat the 45 Colt case is weak. That same case is what Dick Casull used to develope the 454 Casull using tri plex loads. The case is only a gasket and it depends as to how the gasket is supported.
Regards, Keith
In your opinion, do you think SAAMI could raise the pressure limit for .30-06 to about 65-68k psi, with a caveat that it not be used in older rifles? Basically a +P type of round?Quote:
Originally Posted by keith1
Haven't some reloaded pushed 70k in the 30-06? Seems to me that 60k is rather low for the cartridge in modern firearms.
Pitweiler,Quote:
Originally Posted by Pitweiler
I haven't checked recently but doesn't Hornady still produce that high velocity ammo for several different rifle calibers. That could be considered +P I suppose.
I really don't know very much about factory ammo as I haven't used any in many years.
Regards, Keith
You're thinking of Light Magnum which has been replaced by Superformance. They get a stated 3080fps with 150 grain SST, stating that the pressure is not over SAAMI maximum. Hornady says the velocity is achieved by using a special powder and method of dropping it.Quote:
Originally Posted by keith1
The SAAMI standards are not necessarily totally up to date. They tend to move slowly and cautiously. They appear to prefer to err on the "safe" side, since we live in a world filled with people looking for an excuse to file suit and live happily ever after!
Amen to that brother.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikein
The SAMMI standards usually are low enough that the weakest action out there will be safe to shoot.