.308 and a Black bear

Hello everyone. I have been lerking around this forum since I shot my savage rifle. I went to visit my in-laws in Nebraska for thanksgiving and got to hunt some Nebraska deer. I got an eight point mulie and a six point white tail. Im not looking to spent too much money on a rifle right now (Im a handgun guy) but I think the Savage rifle is a decent rifle. I took the deer with a stevens model .308 and I am looking for the same caliber. I live in Florida and the deer here are smaller than the deer in Nebraska. I plan on hunting wild boar, deer, and bobcat. Here in Florida we have black bear. If I should run into one while I am hunting, is a .308 big enough to take down the bear if I need too. Thanks in advance.

Rajuy

I thought bear hunting was stopped in Florida.
At least it was a while back.
Maybe open again ??

A 308 is big enough, but I personally would want something a bit bigger with more stopping power, like in the 338 area, like a 338-06 loaded with barnes 210 or 225 gr bullets would be about perfect.

I hog hunt with a 338 and barnes 210 gr bullets and it will bowl them over like they were hit with a canon ball.

That said a guy over at arfcom named teacher killed a black bear up north with 2 quick shots form a 6.8 SPC, running at about 2600. He used 110 gr barnes bullets.

With a 308, maybe loaded with a heavy bullet like a 180 or 200 gr bonded bullet of some sort, or a mid weight barnes bullet would do it. At times I use 220 gr prohunters for brush hog hunting mostly because they are cheap, but for bear I would want something like a hawks or nosler partition 180, 200,or 220 gr bullet.

About 10 years ago a guy I know and his son were deer hunting in central Florida. The son was up a tree. Killed a deer right at the base of the tree, and stayed there. A black bear came along found the deer. Looked up in the tree and saw meat. Came straight up the tree, and the son pissed in his pants and promptly killed the blackie. Forget what rifle he was using, but I think it was a 30-06.

Tammons, thanks for the reply. Im not hunting the bear. This is just in case I run into one while I was hunting. I dont want anything bigger for now. Was trying to keep the rifle in one caliber for now until my funds are a little better.

You should have no trouble killing a black bear with the .308. Put it where it belongs and it will die.

location ...... location ........... location ........

....... any caliber for that matter .......

Put it right and use a good bullet.

That said if a bigger bore size suits you ...... then by all means .... the .338's and the .35's ..... like the .35 Whelen are just great .........

...... but some of the animals ..... like bobcat will be over done ....... even with a .308 ....... maybe a FMJ military round?

Three 44s

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Originally Posted by Three44s

location ...... location ........... location ........

....... any caliber for that matter .......

Put it right and use a good bullet.

That said if a bigger bore size suits you ...... then by all means .... the .338's and the .35's ..... like the .35 Whelen are just great .........

...... but some of the animals ..... like bobcat will be over done ....... even with a .308 ....... maybe a FMJ military round?

Three 44s

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I dont think that I will be needing any bigger bore sizes for the moment. I dont even have the .308 yet. I just want to start with a .308 and if the need be later on get another rifle. And if the bobcat comes around while im hunting then he will just have to be over done.. ;D

A few years ago I loaded 308 rounds with 165 gr Sierra HPBT GameKings for 2 guys I went to Canada with and they both killed Bears with 1 shot each. No trouble there.

The .308 is still used in M-14's as the 7.62mm NATO, so it does the job just fine. Maybe it's just when I was raised and went through the service, but I view it as the versatile go-to round even though I prefer 6.5 variants for targets these days.

The 308 will do just fine on black bear. Bullets around 165 to 180 gr. The 165 Sierra GKHPBT are a fine bullet. Black bear don't take a lot of killing...just like everything else, make the first shot in the right spot!
Mark

Oh just in case.
Sure.

I would just load up some barnes bullets and go for it.
My 308 long distance hog round is 130 gr barnes bullet at 3150.
I am sure that would down a black bear with a good shot, no problem.

A 150 gr barnes TSX or MRX bullet at 2900 fps or a barnes 165 or 168 tipped TSX bullet at 2800 would be even better and more than enough for any black bear.

Overkill for deer though. You could always load a normal deer round #1 then a couple of barnes loads for #2 and 3 etc, especially if you see any bear tracks.

.308Win for Black Bear......no hay problemo.

.308Win for Big Brown Bears (aka Grizzlies)......not a real good idea.

You say you're a handgun guy.If it's only for backup why not carry a larger caliber handgun.You won't need it unless he's close anyhow.Maybe you all ready have what you need?Yeah right....More guns than we need.

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Originally Posted by chutesnreloads

You say you're a handgun guy.If it's only for backup why not carry a larger caliber handgun.You won't need it unless he's close anyhow.Maybe you all ready have what you need?Yeah right....More guns than we need.

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At the shot, any self respecting black bear would be chasing his shadow at 40 mph, getting the heck out of Dodge...if it's physically able. If he's close, wounded and thinking that he's a grizzly, there probably wouldn't be time to grab a rifle anyway... ;)

A gunshop owner, friend of mine, was telling me a while back about killing an elk with his 308. He used Barnes 165gr TSX, and shot the bull at about 165 yds. It hit both shoulder and was never recovered. The elk took two steps and dropped. The black bear has a lot of fat and heavy bones, but no heavier than an elks shoulders.

If hunting deer, use a 150gr TSX bullet, or similar weight bonded core, or even a 165gr core lokt for that matter and it will stop a bear. It's not likely you'll need it for that anyway.

I have read at least 5 articles of guys using the new 130gr TSX with almost unbelievable results. Guys have taken them to Africa, using a 300 WM (NOT a 308 for sure) and have total pass through and a fast dropping of nearly every animal shot. Including some that previously required 200gr or heavier bullets to stop.

I have read many times, where the 165gr bullet is about the ideal combination of weight, velocity, trajectory, and retained energy, for the 308.

No need to go into Fla, woods with a 338 anything. Nothing there is so big the 308 will not put down in a hurry.

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Originally Posted by chutesnreloads

You say you're a handgun guy.If it's only for backup why not carry a larger caliber handgun.You won't need it unless he's close anyhow.Maybe you all ready have what you need?Yeah right....More guns than we need.

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I only have a couple of 9mm and a new xdm .40. I would think that with the righ round the .40 will be sufficient. What do you think?

I predator hunt in very heavy timber/brush and use a s&w m&p .40 as a side arm, it does work but placement is the key. My rifle shots are very close sometimes nose to nose. The .308 will do the job with no problem what so ever, however again first shot placement is the key if you are about to dance with each other. I find that for my hunting .308 that hornady 150gr interlocks work well at close range.

I probably should point out that bears unlike cats don't try to be quiet, so you do get a heads up most of the time that allows you a moment to prepare for that first shot. (at least in this area) blue

A couple of years ago I was out in the spring scouting for turkeys and had a confrontation with a bear (black), I didn't see it but I'm pretty sure that from the way the bear acted that a cub was involved, she was really po'd growling, huffing and popping her teeth. It was a pretty thick area and I was carrying my compact 1911 .45, it didn't feel like enough gun at the time. I stayed down wind of the bear and started talking to her, eventually she moved off a little and let me get to the truck. I suspect I would have felt better with a short barreled shotgun but as it was there was no shooting so the .45 was plenty. My point I guess is that the vast majority of bear encounters will come out OK and if they don't then I would use what I had and try my best to make it count! The .308 should work fine and I don't see much reason to load specialty ammo for a possible bear encounter unless you just want to.

Bob

About fifteen years ago my father brother and i were berry picking(blueberry) the bushes were very thick, after some time we heard some noise on the other side and sure enough there was a black bear with TWO cubs also picking berry's she was making all the noises BUT would have a hard time getting to us as said the berry bushes were very thick and we just beat feet back to the car before she could find a way through and she was sure TRYING TOO

Slightly off topic but...

Hogs.
Tough animals.

The only thing in Fla you would really want a 338 for is for hunting big hogs on the ground, and IMO I would actually be more concerned about a huge boar hog in florida than a black bear, although bears can climb trees.
Actually a 45-70 is probably a better swamp gun, but I already have a 338 and I have shot quite a few hogs with it with good results.

A 308 with normal jacketed bullet will not neccesarily stop a massive hog like in the 350-500# range or even an average pig in its tracks unless its a head or neck shot.

A 338-06 with a 210 gr barnes tipped bullet will drop a hog or a bear in its tracks and put them in the dirt.
Superb super hard hitting round. Important to me because you dont always have a good shot opportunity depending on the situation.

A 308 with a Barnes bullet will drop a huge hog too depending on the size of the critter, placement and the bullet. Not quite as efficient and dramatic as a 338, but it works well with barnes bullets.
130 gr minimum tipped TSX or better yet a 150 or 168 gr tipped TSX is where you want to be for 308.
The tipped bullets open faster.

Still they are tough animals and can charge or take off, even when hit hard.

Even my neighbor in Ga shot a measly 100# pig with a 270 win, jacketed ammo, and the 270 is a solid round, good broad side body/lung shot at about 75 yards and the damn thing still ran over 100 yards before it had the decency to die. Hard to believe really.

All that said, I do hunt hogs in Ga with a 308 and barnes tipped 130 gr bullets or 180 or 200 gr round nose at times. I use a 130 tipped TSX for an all around load for deer and hogs when I know I wont be facing one down.

If I see a massive track and am in the woods after him, my 338 is going along for the hunt probably loaded with 250 gr Gamekings. Its way overkill most of the time unless you need to stop something big in its tracks PDQ.

No matter what, I always have a 44 magnum handgun with me.
Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Since you already have a .40 and its a hard hitting round, I would just load the 308 and carry the .40, both loaded up with barnes bullets of some sort.

A .40 cal barnes pistol bullet will open up to about 3/4" + in diam.

About 20 years ago I took a 405 lbs. black bear in northern Ontario. When we got the bear back to hunting lodge the owner asked "what the hell did you use to shoot this bear." I told him a Remington 788 w/22" barrel and a Kor-lok 180gr. He didn't believe me until I showed him the rifle - only one I had with me.

I shot the bear low and just behind the front leg. That 180gr. Kor-lok came out the right side of the bruin and left a hole big enough to put a 12" softball into.

BTW - I still have the rifle and the original Bushnell Scope Chief VI. After 35 years of duty, I recently refinished the birch stock, pillared and bedded the action.

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Originally Posted by tammons

Slightly off topic but...

Hogs.
Tough animals.

The only thing in Fla you would really want a 338 for is for hunting big hogs on the ground, and IMO I would actually be more concerned about a huge boar hog in florida than a black bear, although bears can climb trees.
Actually a 45-70 is probably a better swamp gun, but I already have a 338 and I have shot quite a few hogs with it with good results.

A 308 with normal jacketed bullet will not neccesarily stop a massive hog like in the 350-500# range or even an average pig in its tracks unless its a head or neck shot.

A 338-06 with a 210 gr barnes tipped bullet will drop a hog or a bear in its tracks and put them in the dirt.
Superb super hard hitting round. Important to me because you dont always have a good shot opportunity depending on the situation.

A 308 with a Barnes bullet will drop a huge hog too depending on the size of the critter, placement and the bullet. Not quite as efficient and dramatic as a 338, but it works well with barnes bullets.
130 gr minimum tipped TSX or better yet a 150 or 168 gr tipped TSX is where you want to be for 308.
The tipped bullets open faster.

Still they are tough animals and can charge or take off, even when hit hard.

Even my neighbor in Ga shot a measly 100# pig with a 270 win, jacketed ammo, and the 270 is a solid round, good broad side body/lung shot at about 75 yards and the damn thing still ran over 100 yards before it had the decency to die. Hard to believe really.

All that said, I do hunt hogs in Ga with a 308 and barnes tipped 130 gr bullets or 180 or 200 gr round nose at times. I use a 130 tipped TSX for an all around load for deer and hogs when I know I wont be facing one down.

If I see a massive track and am in the woods after him, my 338 is going along for the hunt probably loaded with 250 gr Gamekings. Its way overkill most of the time unless you need to stop something big in its tracks PDQ.

No matter what, I always have a 44 magnum handgun with me.
Makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside.

Since you already have a .40 and its a hard hitting round, I would just load the 308 and carry the .40, both loaded up with barnes bullets of some sort.

A .40 cal barnes pistol bullet will open up to about 3/4" + in diam.

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Thanks for the info Tammons. I will look into reloading some tsx rounds for my .40.

The .308 is quite capable of taking down all you mentioned. It's a shame more companies don't make a heavier bullet for .308, the cartridge can easily handle heavier bullets.

True.

I was out looking locally for some 200 gr 308 ammo and could not find any. 180 gr only but it was cheap.

Sierra make a 220 HPBT MK and a 240 HPBT MK but I've never seen them in a commercial load by anyone.

Oh I loaded up some 220 gr pro hunters, but could not get them to balance with my 130 gr TTSX load.

Seems like you need to be about 50 grains apart in 308 to have the lighter bullet zeroed at 200 and the heavy one at 100. A 220 gr should work with a 168 gr bullet like that.

That said I just shoot the heavy bulelts so seldom, and I had so many 130 gr TTSX shell loaded I figured a box of 180 GR core lokt remington ammo should work fine for now for what I want.

from my experience wit the 308, the bullets over 180gr are a waste. They take up too much powder space and will compromise bullet performance, and that is the last thing you want.

The 308 loaded with a 165gr TSX will most likely never offer you a chance to recover the bullet on anything you shoot in FLA or most anywhere else. It just drives right on through, tearing up flesh and bone on the way.

If you want outstanding terminal performance, stick to bullets UNDER 200gr. If you want to see a pretty mushroom, go with a heavy softnosed bullet. my choice is for the damage and it would be the TSX.

There is a reason most factories do not load bullets over 180 for the 308, they are not needed.

I am a fan of the TTSX bullets of all variety and mostly all I shoot, but the heavy round nose bullets for me were more for a slow moving brush load for hog hunting.

200 or 220 gr roundnose is about perfect for that. I can get 2400 fps with a 220 gr roundnose over RL17 or a few other powders and that will give me the same muzzle FPE as mostly any other 308 load. Its a 50-100 yards round max.

I have a 338 I load with 250 gr GK's that I usually take into the woods.

Buy a savage 30-06 then you have more choices as to what barrels you can change it to and 308 will work on a long action

I/we already have too many rifles already.

2 30-06's, one semi auto (old faithful) and 1 remi bolt action (shoots very tight), 2 308's (one real sako), several 243s, 223, 6.8 spc, 338/284, 270 weatherby magnum deluxe and quite a few more.

I have a Savage control feed magnum long action I am going to build another heavy hitter on. Either a 338 win mag, 338-06, 375 ruger, 416 something, or a 458 win mag. Cant see why I would need another 30-06. We actually have a box of 220 gr 30-06 shells sitting around somewhere.

I sold a Remington 760 to a buddy this summer for a "brush gun" for bear season. He loaded it up with 165 Gameking SPBT and took it out. He found a bear the second day of PA's bear season. His first shot was with the bear facing him. The bear then turned and ran broadside to him and he got 3 more shots off at before it collapsed 30 yds away. After the hide was removed he found the first shot had entered the front of the chest an exited just above the tail, another shot went through the stomach, one of them was a miss and the last shot, presumably, went through the front shoulder and spine and exited. I figure the first shot would have killed it quick enough but he's not one to leave it to chance.
His bear dressed out at 492lbs with an estimated live weight of 582lbs. I think that should qualify the 308 for black bear.
Jeremey

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Originally Posted by tammons

I/we already have too many rifles already.

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Huh?

Well I am in the North Bay Canada district and have seen some big black bears . I have seen a few walk away from a 270 W round that was not placed the best , but then again seen two animals shot deader than dead- with a Marlin 336 in 30/30with the 170 Gr. Cup and core bullet .

So you do not need anything Fancy for your 308 . I would just load a 180 Gr. and be well gunned.We had good results with the 180 Speer Grand slam under 100 yards .
Do some research as the vitals are a bit further forward than most people think, so you might just gut wound a bear even with a 300 WM . In the fall they carry a lot of fat so a heavy bullet gets the nod .
Ever heard a wounded Bear ? The remorse would send Satan to church asking for forgiveness.

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Originally Posted by MSG Janoski

Sierra make a 220 HPBT MK and a 240 HPBT MK but I've never seen them in a commercial load by anyone.

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Problem with these is Sierra states that the Match King bullet is not for game it is target only. They do not expand when striking game animals and Sierra recommends their Game Kings for hunting purposes.

Having dough out or "found" many Sierra HPBT MatchKing of various weights from medium and large wt deer, mule deer, elk even smaller antelope I can attest that hollow point MatchKings mushroom nicely.