...this video is for you. LOL
https://youtu.be/lLG2kSrD40g
Accompanying article link: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ing-is-better/
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...this video is for you. LOL
https://youtu.be/lLG2kSrD40g
Accompanying article link: http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...ing-is-better/
I quit "neck sizing" several years ago!
Me too
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis
I have shot with Erik. He is at a whole different level. As a gunsmith and a shooter.
I beg to differ. If the target speaks for itself, and the load shoots bugholes, I for one see no reason to change. But then I'm not exactly a candidate for the US Olympic team, so take that for what it's worth.
Robinhood told it like it is, another level. Look where Erik can place at a national event.
I don't expect to be competing in the Nationals so I'll just keep neck sizing like I've been doing for years. I also use bushing bump dies so my brass doesn't get a chance to grow. I do have to body size once in a while when the bolt gets snug. 20 to 25 sizes on my BR brass and still going strong with NO trimming needed. Still shooting bug holes with no issues.:cool:Quote:
"I beg to differ. If the target speaks for itself, and the load shoots bugholes, I for one see no reason to change. But then I'm not exactly a candidate for the US Olympic team, so take that for what it's worth."
I was a confirmed neck sizer with my first Savage 10 FP .308.
When I bought a 10 FCP-K .308 I found that I could only shoot 1 reload using neck sizing and then the next reload had to be full sized.
When my old 10 FP barrel started to lose accuracy after over 6500 rounds down range, I had it rebarreled by Savage and found that full sizing worked best in that barrel too.
I haven't neck sized a reload since.
I have reloaded 44,000 rounds since 2010 and at least 37,000 have been full sized.
The guy in the vid is touting FL sizing but not FL sizing, he is partial sizing.
I use the Lee collet die where ever I can get one for a particular cartridge. With them you use no lubricant and eliminate dragging an expander ball back through the inside of the neck. That expander ball drag in my opinion stretches cases quite a bit so eliminating that is good.
The proof is in the lead when it hits the paper and it’s been doing so since I bought my first neck die from RCBS and more so with the collet die.
Three44s
I think this is what Erik is saying. You have the tools to do the same thing why change.Quote:
I also use bushing bump dies so my brass doesn't get a chance to grow. I do have to body size once in a while when the bolt gets snug.
Quote:
That expander ball drag in my opinion stretches cases quite a bit so eliminating that is good.
...and induces neck runout.
So full length sizing without an expander ball is partial sizing?Quote:
The guy in the vid is touting FL sizing but not FL sizing, he is partial sizing.
The full length sizer die "neck button" pulls the neck longer on the the upstroke. My bet is Erik isn't using "off the shelf full length dies". More like custom made to his chamber specs.;)
With bushing dies you also have the option of adjusting the neck tension. AND, you don't learn this stuff over night.
Isn't that what a Redding Type S full bushing die does? Sizes body only and if you remove the internals to eliminate "neck button" you eliminate induced runout issues, set for desired shoulder bump, and select the appropriate bushing for desired neck tension.
I don't rely on the sizing die to deprime and instead use either a universal decapping die or a Wilson decapping base/punch (not the best choice for hi-volume work).
From Redding's website:
Type S – Full Bushing Die
Full length resizing while maintaining exact control of the case neck is often desirable in one operation. The new Type S - Full Length Resizing/Bushing Die accomplishes this task with the precision you would expect from Redding.
- Uses the same interchangeable bushings (.001" increments) as those used in our bushing style neck sizing dies.
- The adjustable decapping rod allows you to adjust the bushing position, sizing only part of the neck length when desire d .
- Concentricity is enhanced by the ability of the bushing to self-center on the neck of the cartridge case.
- All Type S (except 17 and 20 Cal.) dies are supplied with both the standard size button and a decapping pin retainer for the advantages and versatility described under our Type S - Bushing Style Neck Sizing Dies.
Note: By removing the bushing and all internal parts, the Type-S full bushing die may also be used as a body die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas10
I am in the same boat. I neck size and have for years. On the rifle I shoot and reload for the most, I see a drastic change in group sizes if I use new brass or FL sized brass. When I neck size I get nice small groups. When/if I FL size the brass, my groups open up by a big margin. It is a simple fact.
I saw that video a long time ago. It did not convince me to stop neck sizing and start FL sizing then, still has not done it now.
As the old saying goes "every rifle is different". Just because a specific sizing/reloading procedure works good in his rifle, does not mean it will work good in my rifle.
Just like how 1 specific bullet and powder combo may shoot one hole groups in 1 rifle, and then shoot shotgun patterns in another rifle.
Every one is different.
I also prefer full length resizing or to put it another way the cartridge should fit the chamber like a rat turd in a violin case.
Below Kevin Thomas and another member of Team Lapua USA who also worked in the Sierra ballistic test lab.
https://i.imgur.com/Y3IiYL5.jpg
I full length size my brass because if I don’t the bolt will not close...
And that’s on both of my 308 rifles. I had to keep working on it till I found out why it wouldn’t close. One thing I had to do is
get a different shell holder because it was not measuring on both sides right on the shell holder. It was a few thousand off on the height of it. I was about to go crazy trying to find what was wrong and I because I didn’t have the sizer screwed down right also.
Partial full length resizing is only sizing 1/2 to 3/4 of the case neck to keep from touching the case shoulder. And this is done mainly by reloaders that are too cheap to buy a neck sizing die.
Chambers and dies vary in size and adjusting a die a few thousandths up or down for the proper amount of shoulder bump is not partial full length resizing.
If you look at the SAAMI cartridge and chamber drawings the headspace is listed as min and max with .010 between the two. And if you adjust your die per the instructions with the die making hard contact with the shell holder on a older worn firearm you can end up with a case head separations. On the flip side of this I have a Lee full length .223 die that if the die touches the shell holder the shoulder will be pushed back .009 shorter than my GO gauge. And this same die will reduce the case body diameter smaller than my RCBS small base die.
Bottom line, your dies have threads that allow you to adjust the die up and down to resize your cases to the best fit in your rifles chamber. And the dies instructions to screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder plus 1/8 to 1/4 of a turn more is to insure the resized case will fit in any chamber. And I don't have any chamber, I have my chamber and my dies that are adjusted for my chamber.
And at the Whidden custom die website there is a warning about screwing their "shorter" dies down until they contact the shell holder. The warning tells you to screw the die down until it contacts the shell holder and then back the die off 1 to 1 1/2 turns. If the die is not backed off the shoulder setback will make the case unusable.
And below and adjusting a resizing die to setback, bump or push the should back .001 to .002 below the red dotted line is not partial full length resizing. It is nothing more than adjusting the die to properly size a case fired in your chamber.
https://i.imgur.com/wm05ArY.gif
Great thread. I saw the video some time back on you tube. Interesting. I'll go both ways. Which ever way gives me consistent results after months of developing the round, then that's the process I'll stay with, then curiosity sits in from time to time and I again find myself knob dicking with the process. It never ends.
Don’t worry man. You’re among your peers of knob dickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by eddiesindian
Most important thing for me is getting the round in, then getting it back out after firing, and especially when firing at a game animal.
It only takes one issue to cure the problem.
I use the Lee collet and do so mainly because I am lazy and don't want to lube cases. I have found that by not using much pressure on the press handle and rotating 180' and repeat I get very good results. When I put the recommended 25# on the handle it tended to stretch the case making FL sizing a must to close the bolt. I get about 4 loadings before I need to FL size. When I FL size I do the old method of smoking the shoulder with a candle flame and setting the die lower untill it touches and leaves a mark on the smoke and then just enough lower for no tightness on the bolt closing. I use the Lee classic press for sizing and set the collet die so that when the case is engaged the ball on the handle only travels about an inch to an inch 1/2'' before hitting the stop. As for case life I don't think there is any difference.
I also use the Lee Collet Die for my 223, I don't know if the die is designed to bump the shoulder back, but measuring the shoulder before and after I see a .002 to .003 reduction in shoulder length. Even after 6 firings I do not have problems with closing the bolt. The Rifle shoots under 1/2 moa at 300 yards with both 68 and 75 grain hpbt bullets. It will not do that with full sized brass.
I bump 0.004" because I hunt with them (with a set of Redding Competition case holders with 0.002" increments), trim to length and toss when the primer pockets give out.
yep........once you hear yourself saying " gezz, what if I tried this ".........then you know your on for the ride. Great out comes at times, others, a waste of time and money.Quote:
Originally Posted by fightthenoise
" Great out comes at times, others, a waste of time and money"
but than again, you'll never know till you try it yourself.:cool:
There’s definitely value in knowing what doesn’t work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie
I only next size my brass shooting cast bullets, anything I shoot with Full House loads gets a full length sizing, didn't realize this was such an issue though?
Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk
+1........Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Mikie
Roger thatQuote:
Originally Posted by fightthenoise