I am looking for a powder measure for rifle only. Want a good one not high $. Is the lee a good one?
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I am looking for a powder measure for rifle only. Want a good one not high $. Is the lee a good one?
Quality ain't cheap. Will you be weighing your charges?
I have a $25 Lee perfect powder measure and a $300 harrell. Both measure about the same but the harrell is so nice.
Technique is very important with a powder measure. Consistency is the trick
You must use a scale to get it set up for consistent charges. Then you are good to go.
Charges will vary +/- 0.15 grains depending on the powder.
Regardless of what powder measure you choose, you will also be buying a scale and a trickeler if you want perfect loads.
Depending on your volume of loading, you could easily get by without any actual powder measure.
Lee sell a set of scoops for the purpose or you could use a spoon to put a charge on the scale and then trickle to the correct charge weight.
It goes surprisingly fast once you get a system.
In theory many powder measures simply dole out powder into some sort of container or scoop anyway.
After which you would dump it onto a scale then trickle if necessary, or dampen a finger to take some off then trickle it to the correct weight.
When all is said and done, the scoop method works very well and it dosen't get any cheaper or easier.
I HAVE HAD POWDER MEASURES BEFORE. YES I WILL BE CHECKING THROWN charges. Powder is 4895 for now. I am weighing each load now. Just want to speed up a bit.
I use an ancient Belding & Mull. A little slow but very accurate. Cost me $40 on Ebay.
I'm using the same one I gave my father for a Christmas present more than 60 years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikgarus
And yes they are very accurate but it also varies with the powder used as you know.
Weighing and trickeling is still required with most powder for precise weights.
But then we could also argue the need for precise weights couldn't we.
I use h4895 a lot. It is difficult to get precise drops with.
That said how precise do we really need to be? If you can find an accuracy node as wide as 0.3 grains then dropping charges should work fine.
For short range thrown charges are plenty precise.
Most of the long range shooters weigh every charge on a very accurate scale.
I do both. Thrown charges from a powder measure are the fastest way to charge cases no doubt
But for long range stuff I weigh and trickle. I have it set up where it is relatively quickly.
I drop a charge and weigh on a gempro scale accurate to 0.02 grains. Trickle with a little dandy electronic trickier that I can drop h4895 one kernel at a time. Then I check that weight on a second gempro 250. When both scales agree then I am pretty confident the charge is accurate.
Buy once. cry once......Quote:
Originally Posted by mike.223
I have used the drop and trickle method for a few years, I'm not new to reloading overall but have more experience with pistol.
I found the same results were true, drop an amount and trickle to the weight you want.
I found this true with IMR4895, IMR8208XBR and with H335.
The smaller grain powders always drop more closely but the trickle always finishes it off. I usually do .223 Rem and .308 WIN.
I have seen the discussions about volume vs weight measurement, I have had a bit more luck with weighed loads specially in rifles.
Very good discussion, thanks for the input guys. Confirms I might be doing it a good way for me.
HalfTrack
I proubly just stay with my scale and trickler. I load a small amount (20 to 60) at a time. By the way my first powder measure cost $4.95 in 1959 from herters and worked fine. Loaded thousands with it. thanks for input.
I have the Redding Model 3BR pistol/rifle combo. I learned a long time ago, when buying tools to stretch a little, feel the pain once and then enjoy the tool every time I use it. When I skimp on the purchase I usually feel the pain every time I use the tool.
Lee perfect powder measure works great. I bought mine for $25. Just as accurate as my $300 harrellQuote:
Originally Posted by mike.223
i use the lee PPM also...ive got 2 of them...one ive had for 8yrs and they work just fine and once you find your rhythm they drop pretty consistently...i started a load by volume thread but just havent had time to get back to it but will at some point...ive also talked to guys that have the high end measurers and they are a LOT smoother but do not drop perfect charges.
AQuote:
Originally Posted by LongRange
love my Harrell.http://harrellsprec.com/index.php/pr...powder-measure It is a work of art and those bearings make it so smooth.but my lee PPM throws charges just as accurate. With CFE223 that I use in my AR's I can hit right on with my powder measures. Varget, h4895, RL15 really all of the stick powders the powder measures are not as accurate.
Once again though I am still torn on just how accurate you need to be. I look for those wide accuracy nodes and then just throw charges. Only long range loads get the weigh and trickle treatment.
agree...short range/plinking ammo you can get away just throwing charges or as you said you have a wide accuracy node...i run on the ragged edge so everything gets weighed and trickled to as close to exact as my beam will weigh.
when i do get back to the load by volume thead im going to load and shoot out to 500yds and see what kind of verances i get...at 100yds the loads i shot worked very well.
+1 for Lee.....
I have a Lee cheapo and an RCBS powder dispenser. The Lee is just as accurate, if not more so. The more I look at Lee stuff the more I am impressed with it. Remember, when someone has just spent five or ten times the cost of the Lee product they're going to say theirs is better. The Lee just works.
+1....Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Shootist
After hearing-reading how happy those with their Lee PM I had to give one try. It wasn't as perfect as I would have liked out of the box but with a few tweaks and technique it threw charges pretty darn consistently. Not bad for a collection of plastic parts! Then last September I bought a Lee Classic. (Midsouth $70 and change). Its everything the PM is and more, cast machined steel body, brass drum, easy to adjust and or return to a previous setting than the PM and with it's 7/8-14 threads it fits most all stands. My only small complaint I would prefer both were calibrated in grains vs VMD.Quote:
Originally Posted by UK-Shootist
In fact after using the classic exclusively the rest of the last year I made a fellow a killer deal on two RCBS Uniflows( one NIB) and a Johnson's Quick-Measure w/extra tubes and the setting gauge. Today's price for the QM? $270 and change! I didn't need them anymore. The Classic did everything the others did only better. Initial testing once I got the technique down I threw 100-50 grain charges 25 each of H4831(non-SC), 4451, Varget and R22 with only an average of .2-.3 gr variation BTW, a baffle had no effect one way or another consistency wise.
I still use my 55s for ball -flaked powders but the Classic for everything else.
Bill
You know, its amazing how much information there is to consider when doing something for fun. I love it but it can be maddening.
I'm a tinkerer and like the science of shooting and reloading, but sometimes I feel like there is so much input that my head is gonna explode.
Just my take on this addictive hobby. :)
HalfTrack
Yes sir, you can get off deep. As with any hobby, you just don't have a clue how deep you can get, and since there is money being spent there will always be someone trying to make a better moustrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfTrack
I wish I had read this thread before I started one on the help me decide section. I was wondering why a powder measure and a scale came with the Lee Anniversary or Breech Lock Kit. I see now why. If I decide to reload and only do a box or two at a time(very casual shooter for now), I see no need for a powder measure and only need a scale. A bit slower, but I will have the time.
Here is my powder charging system set up in my camper. Lee PPM two gempro 250 digital scales one to trickle on and one to verify weight a little dandy electronic trickier. I can charge cases faster and with much greater accuracy then with my rcbs chargemaster.
[IMG]http://i1056.photobucket.com/albums/...psyuvkqwas.jpg[/IMG]
I will concur with what m12lrs said about the lee powder measure and yobuck said about the scoops.
Regarding the lee powder measure I will add: I give mine a tap once in a while when using it. If I don't, it will occasionally throw a very light charge followed by a very heavy one when using large grained extruded powder. I don't have any trouble with most powders though. Also, very fine ball powder (like AA7) will leak out of the side. AA7 is a pistol powder, never tried a ball rifle powder in it. I have 2 lees and I highly recommend them; they're probably more consistent than the rcbs and hornady I own. If you buy one do what lee says to do with it.
regarding the scoops: a lot of people knock them but I suspect such people failed to follow the directions. I've been surprised at how accurate they actually are IF ONE FOLLOWS THE DIRECTIONS. you can even make a custom scoop by filing one down to the desired size. if you're on a really tight budget the scoops aren't a bad way to go.
I have seen more than one good shooter use this method with old German and Swedish Mausers with great success.Quote:
regarding the scoops: a lot of people knock them but I suspect such people failed to follow the directions. I've been surprised at how accurate they actually are IF ONE FOLLOWS THE DIRECTIONS. you can even make a custom scoop by filing one down to the desired size. if you're on a really tight budget the scoops aren't a bad way to go.
Years ago Lee sold caliber specific loading kits for a very small amount of money.
Everything you needed including a scoop for that cartridge. The thing I really liked
about them was the hand priming tool which is still my favorite. Today if you can find one
on ebay, it alone sells for more than the whole kit cost.
First reloading kit I ever used. I believe they still sell it.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
Back then if you could hit a pie plate at 100yds with your deer rifle you were good to go.
Killed a lot of deer back then.
Well with your space limitations, you could definatly benefit by using a simple scoop or a spoon and a trickler with a good old beam scale.Quote:
Originally Posted by m12lrs
I would challenge you to try doing it for an hour. Put some powder in a small bowl or food storage container. Use a measuring spoon to dump and sift
the powder till the scale is close to tipping and then trickle. Time yourself and be amased.
I can dump a charge out of that lee powder measure faster than you can scoop and dumpQuote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
I have a ohas 10/10 beam scale that has been tuned by scott parker. That said I can trickle faster on the gempro 250 and it weighs to the 0.02 grains instead of +/- 0.10 grains.
and the little dandy electronic powder trickler is much faster and more accurate than any hand trickling. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/595...owder-trickler
this one has potential for someone like you
https://youtu.be/eF-jL2kJRUc
I have a rcbs chargemaster, this setup and a Harrell precision benchrest powder measure.
Only long range loads get weighed to the 0.02 grains
everything else is thrown charges from a powder measure. Find the middle of one of those wide accuracy nodes and use it. It takes practice to get the rhythm right with a powder measure. I have it down with my Harrell. It is a lot smoother than the lee and cuts those stick powders a lot easier. You can charge 100 cases in no time throwing charges. Then I just look at them all with a flashlight to make sure they are all charged pretty equally.
Just gave my chargemaster to my brother-in-law. He is just starting out and appreciates the push button ease of charging cases. I had not used it in a year. Glad someone will get some use out of it.
i'll be darned, Midway discontinued the Little Dandy Trickler.
I just looked for giggles and is discontinued.
Did you watch the video?Quote:
Originally Posted by HalfTrack
They still make it and it works great
Google some reviews. You will be surprised. Simple too!
I've been using an old Bonanza pm for years and it works pretty good. It just doesn't like the big extruded powders though,really struggles to cut them. Got a Hornady auto unit now too that I'm trying out,so far ,so good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillPa
Not possible to have a volume measure throw weigh powder and be accurate for every powder because every powder has a different density.
I find the node on every rifle I load for. Just a good habit to be in to when developing a consistent load. I only weight the first few. Point of impact stays consistent and once you learn how and why a person questions why they haven't been doing it all along.
I shoot 1300 meters at our farm. We've got 1700 meters available. I shoot milk jugs out that far with my 7RM throwing powder with my lee stuff. Under 1000 I like my 243 though a 7mm-08 or 260 is going to be in my future.
Actually there is a much larger need for mousetraps, and far fewer of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
Of those, one design made by one company dominates the market.
Clearly we view how to put powder into a case as being far more important
than ridding our selves of mice.
Or are we just satisfied with a simple solution that works when it comes to mice?
Think how bad it could get if earthworms came in a variety of colors lol.
I'm well aware of the difference between densities and weight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryfulman
When I initially tested the Classic I used what generally were some the worst powders I have for charge to charge by weight consistency. Naturally, due to VMD differences power to powder it was adjusted to throw the 50gr targets for each the same as I would have to do with any other measure.
When I said I would prefer the 'metering chamber' be calibrated in grains vs VMD for myself it would be somewhat easier set it in the ballpark by grain weight rather then looking up the VMD for a specific powder then multiplying the target charge weight by the powder's VMD.
Bill
Does the Classic leak with ball powders? I've heard the PPM does.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillPa
I can't say, I didn't try any. I was more interested how consistent it was or would be with extruded powders. With ball-flaked powder I still use one of my 55s.Quote:
Originally Posted by mikgarus
Bill
The lee dispenser looks good. I gave up on my rcbs dispenser and bought the little trickler 2 years ago along with a gempro 250. Picked up a hornady auto dispenser that is not accurate but use it to get me close, then trickle the rest in. For less than 50 rounds to load, I have a plastic baby spoon that gets me around 40 gr of powder. So many different systems out there. Just go with what works for you.
[QUOTE=BillPa;368022]I can't say, I didn't try any. I was more interested how consistent it was or would be with extruded powders. With ball-flaked powder I still use one of my 55s.
Have your 55s been reworked Bill?
Awhile back I was talking with Neil Jones about doing some rem triggers for me.
But I forgot to ask him about powder measures. I assume he still does them.
I like mine for dumping powder directly into the case. That's what I use when
I need production like on 223s and pistols.
Not really. I only made-use baffles and knock twice at both ends of the dump, two at the top before the throw, two at the bottom after. I also put a sliver of lead shot under the locking screws to put a little tension on the slides to help eliminate some their slop between them and when adjusting screws. They're still hit and miss until they're set but after its almost a waste of time weighing ball-flake powders.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
Ya know, all measures will through charges of powder, but not all powders consistently well. Why which I use depends whats parked on the bench.
Bill