My first Savage! Kind of...

Hello all! Today, I picked up my first Savage...kind of. I picked up a Stevens 200 in .223 for $150! I have a few plans for this gun. I want to make it a gorgeous gun that I can pass down to my kids. (I'm 19 right now). Also, I want it to be a heinously accurate bench/"P-dog" gun.

First, I'd like to put a Criterion barrel from Northland Shooter Supply. They have 26" Bull barrels in .223 for $300.

After that, I'd like to put it in a Boyd's Varmint Thumbhole stock in Nutmeg laminate.

http://www.boydsgunstocks.com/Produc...inate-finished

Herein lies my question. Will the Boyd's stock drop-in with the bull barrel in it? Boyd's says that the barrel channel is 1 1/6". I'm going to assume that the Criterion bull contour is somewhere around 1" at the muzzle.

Now, I measured my action screws with my calipers and it was a 4.4" one. And it has a blind magazine. I'm just not sure if it is centerfeed or staggered? How do I know?

That's all for now. Thanks!

Boyd's discription says it has a bull barrel channel so yes I would think it would accept a bull barrel. Pull the bolt back and look at the mag, do you see a single bullet in the center or do you see a couple of bullets sitting off center aka staggered?

If your action measured 4.4 it centerfeed.

This is what I see.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/z...pscftpct6f.jpg

That's centerfeed. Nice buy at $150

Your Stevens .223 mod 200 is already match accurate. I have one that I can hit a quarter with using bulk ammo at 200yds. The old 200 Stevens in .223 was a very sought after gun ten years ago. I was going to swap calibers on my mod 200 until I fired it. Im not tinkering with any rifle that is that accurate. Plus it has a beautiful rich blued finish. I really hate to see the mod 200 get discontinued but why buy a more expensve Savage if the Stevens is just as accurate? Savage and Stevens were making extremely accurate guns during the last ownership. Maybe other makers were as accurate but they weren't more accurate.

Wish I could have found a deal like that when I was looking, congrats!

Thanks for the info guys!

Mach2, you are correct of course. I have some time on April 6 to go out and shoot this puppy. What I do next will depend on the accuracy.

Now that I've had some time to think about the rifle, let me give you guys my first thoughts.

1) The bolt is really smooth to operate. I've had some problems with the bolt binding (due to a loose fit) in some cheaper bolt actions.

2) The trigger is pretty darn crisp! I've shot Olympic 10m air rifle (FWB 800) and a 50 foot rimfire gun (some Anschutz) and this one is every bit as crisp. Along the same note, the trigger doesn't have much overtravel. Minimal overtravel, I believe, goes a long way to keep a trigger from feeling "mushy". But maybe it is all in my head. :crazy:

3) That being said, the trigger is pretty heavy for my liking. I am going to see if I can do something about that tomorrow.

4) The ejection is just about where I like it. Drops the rounds within a foot of the shooter so brass is easily collected for reloading. I've had guns that will throw brass into the next shooting lane and some that drop the round right on top of the next one (looking at you Remington 700...) :rolleyes:

5) The factory stock is pretty flimsy near the fore end. This is pretty standard on budget bolt guns though.

All in all, I'm pretty giddy at the prospect of turning this unassuming, utilitarian bolt gun into a piece of art that I can give to my oldest son.

Here's a *crappy* picture with a SWFA 12x42 MilQuad mounted up.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/z...pskvxvj0oq.jpg

If you find that your FMJ ammo is not grouping as well as you'd hoped, before you give up on the barrel try some American Eagle 223 in 50 grain tipped. I find that beside being cheap…about 50 cents a pop, I can frequently get a three shot sub 1/4 moa group at 100 yds. with my bolt Savage. Not all the time, but frequently.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

If you find that your FMJ ammo is not grouping as well as you'd hoped, before you give up on the barrel try some American Eagle 223 in 50 grain tipped. I find that beside being cheap…about 50 cents a pop, I can frequently get a three shot sub 1/4 moa group at 100 yds. with my bolt Savage. Not all the time, but frequently.

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Will do. Thanks for the advice. I have 40 rounds of cheap PMC laying around to season the barrel with.

I broke it down and messed with the trigger today. It is quite light now. Double checked with a sharp bump on the ground, along with a deliberate trigger pull with the safety on. Still functions great! It is a fantastic trigger as far as I am concerned.

The gentleman I bought the gun off of said that the scope was not sighted in. This, along with the fact that the action bolts were factory "sealed" and the bore being incredibly clean, makes me wonder if this gun was even shot.

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Originally Posted by UCChris

3) That being said, the trigger is pretty heavy for my liking. I am going to see if I can do something about that tomorrow.

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Chris I should have told you that I have a RifleBasix trigger on my mod 200 in .223. Some may say that aids accuracy. That is all I did to my 200. I do use the bulk 55gr ammo.

As far as RB triggers they were a little cheaper 10 years ago so i bought a second RB trigger for my 270 mod 200 both set at 2 lbs.
The RBs are super nice trigs for the model 200. They aren't exactly cheap now. Prices went up. If I did it over today I think I'd find a cheaper way to get a better trigger. Probably do a trigger job myself.

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Originally Posted by Mach2

Chris I should have told you that I have a RifleBasix trigger on my mod 200 in .223. Some may say that aids accuracy. That is all I did to my 200. I do use the bulk 55gr ammo.

As far as RB triggers they were a little cheaper 10 years ago so i bought a second RB trigger for my 270 mod 200 both set at 2 lbs.
The RBs are super nice trigs for the model 200. They aren't exactly cheap now. Prices went up. If I did it over today I think I'd find a cheaper way to get a better trigger. Probably do a trigger job myself.

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I did a bang up trigger job today. Breaking crisply somewhere around 2.5-3 lb as near as my (im)precise trigger finger can tell.

Now you can tell everyone, "why yes I am a gunsmith".

In considering a new stock be aware that Boyds stocks apparently do not have pillars installed. You'll have to do that yourself, or buy an EA Brown stock that looks similar to Boyds but does come with pillars installed.

http://www.eabco.net/Savage-Thumbhol...6_p_14233.html

Nice pick-up. Keep us posted on your progress.

Also look at Shillen barrels and McMillan stocks - pricey to say the least, but if your plan is to put together a rifle that you can hand down to your kids and grand kids, I wouldn't be using anything but the best.

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Originally Posted by Texas10

In considering a new stock be aware that Boyds stocks apparently do not have pillars installed. You'll have to do that yourself, or buy an EA Brown stock that looks similar to Boyds but does come with pillars installed.

http://www.eabco.net/Savage-Thumbhol...6_p_14233.html

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Good to know! $69 more than a Boyd's but still reasonable!

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Originally Posted by UCChris

Here's a *crappy* picture with a SWFA 12x42 MilQuad mounted up.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/z...pskvxvj0oq.jpg

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I use the Warne steel rings like you have above. Warnes are heavy but they are probably the strongest rings made. I went towards lighter aluminum rings on my rifles after my Warne phase. Ive used a little bit of everybodies stuff I guess.
Some people hate the verticle split Warne rings because they are tough to hold together while you try to screw them together but I generally only install rings once so that was of no concern.
I stuck a 6.5-20-44Ao Simmons on top. For varmint work this discontinued scope is a great scope. They were 99$ in their day.
Most any scope can be used on a .223 because the recoil isn't gong to break a scope.

If you go to Eabco for your stock pick up a SAV-2 trigger while you're there. For the money I don't think they can be beat.

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Originally Posted by Mach2

I use the Warne steel rings like you have above. Warnes are heavy but they are probably the strongest rings made. I went towards lighter aluminum rings on my rifles after my Warne phase. Ive used a little bit of everybodies stuff I guess.
Some people hate the verticle split Warne rings because they are tough to hold together while you try to screw them together but I generally only install rings once so that was of no concern.
I stuck a 6.5-20-44Ao Simmons on top. For varmint work this discontinued scope is a great scope. They were 99$ in their day.
Most any scope can be used on a .223 because the recoil isn't gong to break a scope.

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I love the Warne rings. Yes, they are a wee bit difficult to put on, but they are excellent. Especially for the money. Comparing them to the cheaper aluminum rings that are made in China is night and day!

The SWFA is up there just because it is all I had laying around. Eventually I want a variable power for hunting. Though, 12x may be fine for hunting out west. Probably not the best for hunting the whitetail woods of Ohio!

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Originally Posted by 243LPR

If you go to Eabco for your stock pick up a SAV-2 trigger while you're there. For the money I don't think they can be beat.

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Will do. I'm going to see how this worked on trigger works out first. I have it pretty darn light and very crisp. If my accuracy is good, I may leave it alone for now. Definitely not trying to discount your advice, it's much appreciated!

Edit: Poking around Ebaco's site and I found this!

http://www.eabco.net/Choate-Ultimate...153.html#tab-2

Over the last couple days I've been flip flopping on whether I want to go "classic" (i.e., wood stock, ss barrel) or do a modern "tactical" build. I really, really like the looks of this stock. I was leaning towards classic simply because the Boyd's stock was cheap. If I'm going to end up spending $169 for the Ebaco thumbhole, I might as well pony up the extra $8 and do a sweet "tactical" build with the Choate stock.

Also, is there a way to buy Savage factory barrels? I'm thinking that a .223 barrel off of a Savage FCV would be an awesome way to finish of the gun. I realize that the barrel that is one it right now may be very, very good, but I am going to want a heavier contour for varmint/extended shooting.

Used and new take-off Savage factory barrels are available here in the member classifieds on a regular basis. Before I would pay $150-180 from the factory, though, would STRONGLY recommend an Apache Gun Works aftermarket barrel. Jim enjoys a great reputation for making top-notch barrels for about $180-200. He also will make higher-end barrels in the $300 range, though most of his customers will tell you from experience that his less expensive barrels shoot very, very well for about 2/3 the cost of others. Check him out: http://apachegunworks.com/

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Originally Posted by foxx

Used and new take-off Savage factory barrels are available here in the member classifieds on a regular basis. Before I would pay $150-180 from the factory, though, would STRONGLY recommend an Apache Gun Works aftermarket barrel. Jim enjoys a great reputation for making top-notch barrels for about $180-200. He also will make higher-end barrels in the $300 range, though most of his customers will tell you from experience that his less expensive barrels shoot very, very well for about 2/3 the cost of others. Check him out: http://apachegunworks.com/

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You won't pay 150-180 for a barrel from the factory, according to Effie at Savage Customer Service, they absolutely positively will not sell you a new barrel.

I have a thumbhole stock. It looks great and is a good bench setup but thumbholes are not very good for hunting. The thumbholes are bigger stocks. They stick out in places. They don't lend themselves well to portability.
Bench stocks are for bench use.
Many of the tactical stocks also are not given to be good hunting stocks.
If you are lucky enough to live out West and you prairiedog hunt from a fixed, prone position the thumbhole and tactical stocks are in their realm and great for long range precision shooting.
For stalking; the classic hunting stock is king. They are designed to be carried while stalking. They don't stick out in places and stab your thigh or snare a vine or limb.

Luckily, I do live out west. And most my hunting is from a fixed position. My shooting/hunting includes coyote (fixed), jackrabbit "sniping" for a farmer (fixed), paper punching (fixed), and other varmint control (crow, coon, fox, etc) all while in a fixed position. The only other thing that I *might* be doing with it, is doing an antlerless deer hunt for some winter meat.

@foxx, thanks for the link! Those are some killer prices. I just sent him a price inquiry for a 26" varmint contour (.8" muzzle) .223 barrel in chromemoly w 1/9" or 1/8" twist.

We have Coyote here in SC but I NEVER see any of them. Not ever. I just stood at my back door listening to some Coyote yippen it up like crazy about 300yds in the woods behind my house but they never show themselves. Very secretive creatures. If we had the open spaces like you Westerners have then yea, I'd see them regularly but foliage hides them here. I regularly see my dogs barking at the back fence at night at what I assume is Coyote. They could easily kill my dogs if the fence weren't there.
We have few cats around here and I bet it is because the Coyote catch them.

They are certainly wily creatures...

I've been doing some reading and, apparently, a barrel over twenty inches is not really needed for medium range varmint shooting. But, is a twenty inch barrel with a 1:8 twist enough to stabilize the heavier, and thus longer, bullets more suitable for light deer hunting?

IMO a bull barrel is too heavy and unbalanced for Pdogs and the like especially with that stock.
Okay for full on FTR target etc though with a heavy stock.

I would buy a Varmint profile barrel myself to keep the weight down and actually I am about to sell my new bull barrel just for that reason..
For just me I dont care for thumbhole stocks either but to each their own.

Also I would buy a 7 twist barrel just in case you ever want to shoot 90 gr bergers. 7 twist is fine unless you are shooting
something like 35-40 gr bullets then you might overspin. That said I loaded mine with 52 gr amaxes and it was the most accurate bullet I loaded at 1/4" groups and I never had a bullet blow up.

If you want to do a very nice matt finish stock then get it unfinished and do a Permalyn Sealer wet sand finish on it.
It takes about 20+ coats but creates a very nice matt finish.

Start off with a normal sand like with a sanding sponge then a couple of coats of Permalyn Sealer with a brush then start wet sanding with 180 and ending up with 320 or 400. Also you wipe it down after each wet sand and hang and let dry.

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Originally Posted by UCChris

They are certainly wily creatures...

I've been doing some reading and, apparently, a barrel over twenty inches is not really needed for medium range varmint shooting. But, is a twenty inch barrel with a 1:8 twist enough to stabilize the heavier, and thus longer, bullets more suitable for light deer hunting?

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For me barrel length is more of a function of how I will use a gun and 20-22" is a nice place to be for all around mobility.
A 20" bbl will work fine.

1:8 will stabilize a 80 gr match bullet. You need a 7 twist really for 90 gr bergers, and I will also add for the heavy 70 grain barnes bullets I think they need to be spun very fast and pushed hard to get them to group. The box says 8 twist but my gues sit will take a 7 twist to get them to shoot tight in 223.

Barnes says 9 twist on the box for the 62 gr TTSX but I never could get the 62 gr TTSX to group with our 9 twist sporter but they did shoot well in my 7 twist..

Got an email back regarding my price inquiry. $190 for a twenty inch chromemoly barrel with a 1:8" twist. My plan is to use the 64 grain Winchester Super-X Power Point for deer under 200 yards and varmints out as far as I am accurate. There is a cool gel test on YouTube regarding these loads. Quite a nice cavity is shown.

I need to purchase a rangefinder, then the stock and barrel, in that order.

Personally I would either load a 62 gr TTSX for deer for a complete pass thru, unless you are going to shoot them in the neck then it doesnt matter.

They have good shock value but a cutting edge 60 gr copper raptor would do even better for dropping them.

Everything we have shot with the raptor bullets in 6.8 SPC has never made it more than 10 yards.

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Originally Posted by tammons

Personally I would either load a 62 gr TTSX for deer for a complete pass thru, unless you are going to shoot them in the neck then it doesnt matter.

They have good shock value but a cutting edge 60 gr copper raptor would do even better for dropping them.

Everything we have shot with the raptor bullets in 6.8 SPC has never made it more than 10 yards.

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Thanks for the advice, it's much appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't reload. So do any of these bullets you are talking about come in (semi)cheap factory loadings?

Also, I wouldn't mind shooting them in the neck. I'm only going to hunt deer for food, so neck shots are preferred to save as much meat as possible.

Remington Hog Hammer Ammunition 223 Remington 62 Grain Barnes Triple-Shock X Bullet Hollow Point Lead-Free Box of 20
About $30 a box. Although sounds like a lot, the actual 62 gr TTSX projectile cost about .60 cents each without shipping.

Use the cheap stuff for varmints and the Hog hammers for Hogs and deer.

Cutting edge bullets no on loaded ammo that I know of. The cutting edge projectiles alone cost about $1.40 each after shipping.

I'll buy lead free ammo when it becomes tax deductible.

Here's a pic of the gun now that it has a bipod.

http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/z...psqivqswrd.jpg

Chris,,,, a thought on the thumbhole stock,,, i must admit i have only handled very few,,,, but , clearly some dont fit my hand,,,,