Wolf Primers- Anyone have any Real Data- ES/SD/ Accuracy vs. CCIBr or Fed210M?

Hey guys, with the current primer situation (have we ever figured out what is really causing this?- another topic) has anyone tried the Wolf Primers and got any Real data with their match/ most accurate loads. I'd be interested how they compared accuracy wise, ES/ SD,etc.

I switched to Wolf SRM several months ago, couldn"t find BR4s anymore. Bought several thousand and have been redoing all my 6br loads with them. I think the cup is at least as hard as the CCI, and handles similar velocities/pressures about the same. They are noticably larger in diameter than the silver primers, and snug right up in pockets that were getting loose with CCI

Accuracy is terrific, one of my loads is shooting in the .1's, (Berger 95VLD with Varget hard into the lands) and SD is basically the same as I was getting from the BR4s, single digits on my best loads to around 20 with the lighter bullets. Results with Rl15, Varget, and N135 were consistent, all powders had to be reduced from .8 to 1.4 grains with the magnum, but I believe they would be very close with standard Wolf.

I was skeptical until some of the guys on this forum started giving them good marks, but now I think I will stay with them even when supplies return to normal. Also a lot lighter on the wallet than the BR$.

Rod

Thanks for the input. I did a search on our site here and the 6mmbr. com site. Didn't find anything here, but the 6mmbr. site info looked promising. So just so I understand, you went from a standard primer in CCI to the Mag. Primer with Wolf? Why did you do that? Was it all that was available or did you want to try it in your rifle? Just wondering

I have tried all diff types of primers and onc3e I went to Wolf SMR's its all I buy. I dont think I get any better SD's but they sure are not any wrse. I get fantastic accurracy with them. I am currently thinking of rebarreling my 6-250 AI to 6X47L and one of the reasons (other than Lapua brass) is the small primer pocket so I can use my Wolf SMR's.

The SMR is the only wolf I've tried but I wouldnt hesitate on any of the other sizes.

Steve

Cool, well then I just saved myself about $80 inc. hazmat, shipping,etc. on 5000 primers then- got the Wolf vs the Fed 210M on back order at Cabellas

I use wolfs all the time. I really liked them at $16 per 1k

Best deal I got on them was $95 per 5000 from Powder Valley but, That was before the primer deficit of 2009!

Steve

David Tubb says he uses wolf primers exclusively after testing them against others. They work for me. Have access to wolf small rifle primers in both standard and magnum but cannot find large rifle.

I just paid $135 + $3 handling + shipping + $22.50 Hazmat. from Bruno's for 5000. I had to take it like a man when paying for them! I remember not ever buying primers at gunshows unless they were $10/ 1000.

Planning to do such a test soon with either my Savage or Remington 308 Winchesters - if the weather will cooperate. I'll be comparing Wolfs, BR2, and Federal 210Ms (yeah, I manage to find some!). Probably the Savage since its the most accurate. If I use the Remington 700 SPS it will probably be with the GMM duplication load I've been working on.

Bullet: Sierra 168 gr. HPBT MatchKing
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.0 grs.
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Federal
LOAL: 2.800 (2.230 base to ogive with Stoney Point)


#1 2668.05
#2 2645.89
#3 2666.88
#4 2639.55
#5 2636.10
#6 2626.37
#7 2654.60
#8 2655.18
#9 2650.53
#10 2653.43

Avg.: 2649 fps
Spread: 41.68 fps
Std Dev: 13.07

The Remington is a good rifle but the 16FLHSS has a Lothar Walther barrel and more scope magnification.

[img width=600 height=308]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/700SPSBeautyShot.jpg[/img]
[img width=600 height=399]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/01Sierra168grHPBTMatchking100yards.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=342]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/SSSMcMillan16FLHSSRangeTest.jpg[/img]

[img width=600 height=352]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/16FLHSS100yards.jpg[/img]

what is your barrel length? i am running 44gr varget w/ 168smk's, i have a 30" tube, based on what i am seeing here, i can get out to 1000 and stay supersonic.

on the wolf primers, i just bit the bullet and got 20,000 from powder valley, so i hope they are good, placed the order back in febuary, and got them a couple weeks ago, i haven't run out of 210's yet, but i am not planning on replacing them if the wolfs work out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pbcaster45

Planning to do such a test soon with either my Savage or Remington 308 Winchesters - if the weather will cooperate. I'll be comparing Wolfs, BR2, and Federal 210Ms (yeah, I manage to find some!). Probably the Savage since its the most accurate. If I use the Remington 700 SPS it will probably be with the GMM duplication load I've been working on.

Bullet: Sierra 168 gr. HPBT MatchKing
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.0 grs.
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Federal
LOAL: 2.800 (2.230 base to ogive with Stoney Point)


The Remington is a good rifle but the 16FLHSS has a Lothar Walther barrel and more scope magnification.

[img width=600 height=399]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/01Sierra168grHPBTMatchking100yards.jpg[/img]

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...Put another .3grs in that Remmy & it'll run with that Savage...lol...But then you knew I was going to say that.. ;)

Yes, I did! ;D

P.S. The Remington has a 26 inch factory tube.

Quote:

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I remember not ever buying primers at gunshows unless they were $10/ 1000.

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Yep, a penny a piece was the rule of thumb for primers in the good old days

Back in the day we paid $45.00 for a case of 5000 Winchester primers from Wholesale Ammo @ the gun shows. Believe it or not, I still have some of them!
Charlie

Why are you using the small magnum rifle primer instead of the standard small rifle primer? Is it a matter of availability?
Charlie

Charlie, I use the mags because a friend was using them in a 6ppc with great results, He give me a hundred and after i tried them I orderd 7 thousand. I have heard (dont know if its true or not) That the only diff between wolf mag and wolf standard is the hardness of the cup.

Steve

I love the Wolf SRMs and LRMs. Don't buy the standard wolf primers to use with any cartridge that develops much pressure. The wolf mags have a very heavy cup, and from everything I have read and experienced, they are no hotter than the standard, just have a thicker cup. I have had loads that the CCI 450's showed pressure signs with that the wolfs had no indication of pressure on. I have been using the wolfs with my 6BRX and 6BR, did try fed 205s with the 6BR, but found the wolfs made tighter groups. I have started using the wolfs with my .308, and am still working up loads with RL15, but with 42 gr. of RL15, the 168 SMKs and wolfs it is looking real good. That is with fed cases, haven't pulled the shiny new lapua cases out until I have settled on a load. I bought one holy load of them recently at powder valley at $25 per brick. I am set for a while on them. I am curious to try them with my 25-06 AI and 7WSM. The .204 loves the BR4s, so I'll stick with them and the 205s for now. Once you go with the Wolfs, the pocket is stretched way out.

When seating them, try to get them deep, and if using something like a lee hand seater, you will develop some good forearm muscles seating those things.

Stevec & ThorBird,
Thanks for the info. We are going to order 10,000 on Monday. Hope they still have them!
Charlie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThorBird

When seating them, try to get them deep, and if using something like a lee hand seater, you will develop some good forearm muscles seating those things.

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No Kidding!!! ecspecialy in Lapua brass! I bought a autoprime one(always used the auto 2) just so I could use the press to seat wolfs in Lapua.

I Think you will be very happy with them.
Steve

Just to let you know what is going on my side of this little world.....
I have been to several different stores in my area, and every one of them has had most powders, and they have all had primers of all varieties! Small rifle, small mag, large rifle, large etc, etc. Even some BR primers! Check your local shops. Though the prices are a little higher than they should be (about $8/1k primers higher than last year), with any luck freak out fest 2009 may just be over...............

I better not have to eat my words.........

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hershey

what is your barrel length? i am running 44gr varget w/ 168smk's, i have a 30" tube, based on what i am seeing here, i can get out to 1000 and stay supersonic.

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It would take over 2900fps muzzle velocity (maybe 2930) to keep the 168 SMK supersonic at 1K. To pick up almost 300fps over what he saw is asking alot and probably an unrealistic expectation. You'll have better luck with another bullet for that distance.

"on the wolf primers placed the order back in febuary, and got them a couple weeks ago"
they have a 7 month delivery time?
that's not good!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laportecharlie

Back in the day we paid $45.00 for a case of 5000 Winchester primers from Wholesale Ammo @ the gun shows. Believe it or not, I still have some of them!
Charlie

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when I started reloading bullets were $5.00 a hundred too 1958

Well I just finished doing my comparison of Wolf Large Rifle Primers against other domestic brands. Very interesting results, found out that just because a load has good extreme spread and low standard deviation doesn't necessarily mean it will be the most accurate. Rifle used for the test was my Custom Savage 16FLHSS with its 24 inch Lothar Walther .308 Winchester barrel (1 in 10 twist, six groove).

[img width=600 height=333]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/308WSavage16FLHSS.jpg?t=1254007246[/img]

Here is the basic load used with all four primers (Wolf Large Rifle, CCI BR2, Federal 210M, Remington 9 1/2)

Bullet: Nosler Custom Competition 175 gr HPBT
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs.
Primer: ****
Case: Once Fired Lapua (Fulled length sized, case length 2.011)
LOAL: 2.875 (2.294 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length with Nosler 175 gr. HPBT is 2.312 (about 2.893 LOAL). Bullets seated to give 0.018 bullet jump.

CCI BR2 Primer
Average Velocity: 2621.32 fps
Extreme Spread: 14.73
Standard Deviation: 5.65

Federal 210 Match
Average Velocity: 2609.04 fps
Extreme Spread: 30.39
Standard Deviation: 11.22

Remington 9 1/2
Average Velocity: 2604.11 fps
Extreme Spread: 39.69
Standard Deviation: 12.80

Wolf Large Rifle
Average Velocity: 2630.21 fps
Extreme Spread: 25.19
Standard Deviation: 7.54

The two most accurate primers were the Federal 210M and Remington 9 1/2, groups were for all practical purposes identical. Second place went to the CCI BR2 and 3rd in accuracy was the Wolf primers. Here is one of the groups fired with the Wolf Primers. I'm satisfied that all these primers have excellent quality control and would just let the rifle decide what it likes best.

Typical group with Wolf Large Rifle Primers

[img width=600 height=386]http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/WolfGroup100yds.jpg?t=1254008730[/img]

play with the seating depth and you could make that look better :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Avenger

play with the seating depth and you could make that look better :)

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..What he say...lol... ;)...Look's like the Wolf's are just a touch hotter than the 210's or 9 1/2's...

1Shot,

I'll probably have to do another accuracy test, the wind gust were murder today and I wasn't shooting too good either. Definitely an off day... :-[

Thanks for doing this test. Very good info.

Not sure at which range you are testing but you should do atleast 200-300 yards. Also I would suggest a 10 shot group to get the best average otherwise you may be basing decisions off of inconclusive results. Too bad you did not have an winchester large rifle primers, people seem to have great results with them in .308 and 06 size cases. Thanks for the results though I know it takes a lot of time and work.

I did all the load testing at 100 yards but next time I'll try 200. I'll need to locate some heavier targets too, the ones I was using were too thin and not producing good holes to measure. But this was more about velocity, ES, and SD this time around. Next time it's group testing all the way! I don't really enjoy chronograph work!