If so, what bullet and how effective is it ?
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If so, what bullet and how effective is it ?
I have shot quite a few deer with a 223. Only one gave trouble, it died but had run pretty far, recovered it with the help of my trusty shepherd. I had hit him a little low, just over the sternum. Otherwise, no problem. I used 55 grain ballistic tips at max loads. I would however limit myself to cross rib shots, nothing through heavy bone and short range only. The high speed and fragmenting bullet results in massive lung damage, my recollection is there was usually no exit wound but just bloody pulp were the lungs had been. But I prefer heavy bullets at moderate speed.
Pete
Why me lord
What have I ever done
To have to listen to another one
Of the arguments again
Kris Kristopherson sorta
In the words of Nancy Reagan:
"Just say NO."
uj
As long as we are on the topic, have any of you trolled a hunting/shooting website lately by posting questions about game hunting with a .224 caliber centerfire? Isn't it funny how no one ever points out that you could have just used the search function to locate the numerous debates available on this topic?
Now, if you will excuse me, I just barely escaped with my life from a charging bull PD and I need to go get my rest. I have to catch a flight to Africa tomorrow morning where I will hunt cape buffalo with my HM2. I hope to stop in Zimbabwe on my way home where I will disco with smoked turkeys and try to hook up with a woman named Toads.
No need for argument or debate, I simply asked if anyone here has used a .223 for deer..and the result thereof. I didn't ask anyone who flat out condemns it to even bother replying...no need to waste their time.
I only asked those who have used them for such to reply.
It's a good question. If your aren't interested just skip it. If you think it's bad idea, make your case. Copping the attitude just isn't necessary and it make people feel less welcome to ask. (jerks)
Forger- if that's all I had around, i would not hesitate. For a good while a 223 was all I had and as I stated, the only one (out of many)that ran was a bad shot. But I wouldn't risk the quartering shots. I am actually the same way with a 243. I shot a pretty heavy buck with a 243 front quarter and though he dropped, the only thing that made it to the lungs was a few fragments, luckily it was enough. I am a big fan of a nice exit wound. I like a heavy bullet at low enough speeds to hold together and plow through. I have never had any trouble finding deer shot through. It give a less dramatic smack down but there is less meat damage and the blood trail rules. A decent exit wound is my friend.
Pete
It can certainly be done. You'll need to check the regs where you live/hunt. As with most things it depends on you. How accurate do you place your shots? What bullets, range, size of deer? A 250lb mulie is a lot different than a little southeast deer.
".....and how effective is it ?"
Just start with 140lb VC or NVR and work from there.
uj
I have killed 14 deer w/ an 18" AR 1:7 twist w/ the Sierra 65gr. Gameking and a stiff load of AA2520. Shots were from 80-165 yds. All 1 shot dead.
*sigh* Fine, I'll be serious. If I were you, I'd use an expanding copper solid such as Barnes Triple Shock in the heaviest weight that your rifle will stabilize. Since bullet length is actually more important than bullet weight when it comes to whether or not a given twist rate can stabilize the round in flight, start your load development with a lighter solid copper bullet than you would a jacketed bullet. Or you can use another stoutly designed round, such as the Nosler Partition.
I fully intend to deer hunt with my .223 some of the time, depending on the location I am. For example, while pushing near certain riverbanks they tend to cross my path at about 15-20 yards, and I would not hesitate to shoot one with a .223 at that range.
Sorry if I sounded a bit short with some replies, but I have heard all the "NO" answers before. All I really wanted was replies from somebody who has actually used a .223 for deer.
Yes, whitetails here in the northeast do grow fairly large, but I should have qualified my question by adding that I am very deliberate with my shots and will not shoot at a running deer..unless it is running straight toward or away from me. Primarily for the safety factor and because I consider shot placement very critical.
As savageboy added, I have heard several advise the Sierra Gameking bullets . My rifle is a Savage 11G and I understand the rifling twist mitigates a 55 and up bullet. I have other centerfire rifles including a Marlin 336 in 30/30, but I want to bag a deer with my Savage.
The hunting regs here in NY State only require that the rifle be a "centerfire". I know that sounds a bit "iffy", but I am a hunter safety instructor and I have to be up to date with the regs.
Wow, be careful with that can of worms. Once you open it, all kinds of things come out, lol. I have used my 221 Fireball a couple of times. One doe at 140 yards and one at 240. They were broadside shots, both behind the shoulder. Obviously the 221 is a bit slower than the 223, so take from this what you will. The 240 yard shot passed through both lungs and broke the off side leg. The deer ran 30-35 yards and went down. The 140 yard shot, passed through both lungs and and left a quarter size hole out the back side. I was using 53 gr SMK's at 3000 fps. Hind sight being 20/20, I would limit my shots to 150 yards. This is personal preference and not because of any apparent limitations of the rifle.
I have shot 60 gr. Sierras with good accuracy and probably better suited for hunting. The 60gr Partition and 62 gr. TSX Barnes bullets should be phenomenal.
Let us know how it goes.
some hunters use 50 cal here in Florida for deer hunting - no kidding :o
Shoot them in the neck and no problems at all.
Other than that and I want a bigger bullet.
Many here in Alaska me included, started our 8 year old children deer hunting with the 223 and 22-250; 55 grain soft point through both longs or head shot are fatal every time, NO exceptions!
I would venture to say that literally hundreds of deer fall every year around here to the 223.
Neal
Thanks guys;
Rarely is a shot beyond 100 yards necessary here. I live at the edge of the Allegany mts and it is more wooded than open..think I'll try it this fall...
I've seen and shot deer with a .223. If you are not a big fan of tracking a wounded animal until it dies use your 30/30. It's a roll of the dice to drop it in it's tracks with a .223,most times you'll lose.IMO we owe it to the game we hunt to dispatch the animal as quickly as possible. And the debate as to weather to use a .223 for deer will continue until the middle east runs out of sand!!
reason why most people loose animals is the get antsy and dont wait a fair amount of time....people who need uber calibers have no patients to wait a hour or so.....hell i have waited 1 -2 hours with a 45-70 and a 400gr soft point
that being said,shot placement is the key!
want a deer to drop instantly everytime,shoot them in the head....practice it...cant run when the head looks like a canoe
I don't hunt deer with a 223 regularly, but this year I had an FP that I wanted test out in the field. I loaded with 68 HPBT Match ammo. This ammo in my gun will shoot groups the size of a dime at 100 yards. Anyway I shot a very nice 8 point on the second weekend this year.
With 223 I believe shot placement is critical. In my case I shot him in the neck and he dropped DRT. It was getting on to dusk and I knew he needed to go down fast or I'd have trouble tracking him. With the neck shot I figured my shot would either be a kill or a miss. But with lots of bench time on this rifle I knew I could make the shot.
The HPBT performed superbly. Upon skinning I found the spine was completely severed, it looked like one vertebra (sp?) completely destroyed, and there was a smooth one inch hole all the way through his neck. I could stick a finger in from each side and touch in the middle. Intresting to me is that all the damage was not detectable with the skin on. I could barely find the entry hole before skinning.
Out West
Ethical or not, I was raised by a Depression-Era old-timer. Back then they shot Does in the head right behind the ear for food to survive. Works with even a .222 Remington or smaller just fine, but you have to be close enough to have golf-ball accuracy to be 'ethical'...
The .223 barrel I got for my Encore is very accurate and I wouldn't hesitate to put a 55 grain Soft-Point behind the ear of a fat Doe at all...
I am not a fan of hunting everything with a 223 myself but it is up to the task. The northern Canadian Inuits have been using it for decades. Shot placement is key to any round and especially the 223.
I too was curious about the 223, tried it this year. Shot a spike, thought it was a doe; eyes ain't what they used to be, at 100 yds. broadside with a Nosler 60gr spitzer. Watched him run 30yds, reared straight up and dead. Chest cavity was jello.
I use a Sierra 65 grain Gameking and haven't had any problems so far. Just be careful and use good judgement when taking your shot.
brain stem shot, if you can put it there, it will put them down. quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by barthmonster
Killed 1 8pt approx 125 pounds dressed, Bullet was a 55gr Remington Corelok factory load, the gun was a savage/stevens model 200 22" barrel, range was about 50yards, broadside shot, deer ran 60yards, no exturnal bleeding, was in a field so that was not a issue, deer died within site, inturnal damage was slite, bullet came unglued as soon as it entered the chest cavity. Moral to this story is : Yes the .223 will kill deer, would we do it again YES, but with this side note we'd be Using a Barnes Triple Shock or the Nosler Partition.
A quick note on shooting deer in the head. I am extremely against it. I don't doubt that you can and I can, if we know our rifles and everything goes right. I hunted by a guy who use to do that, one late morning I heard him shoot, going out for lunch I walked by him on the ground and asked him how he did. He took me over to a lower jaw and a mess of blood and hair. He was using a 270, but says it must have hit a twig or something and this is all he got. I never had a more gut wrenching feeling, thinking about the slow demise that it was going to have.
forger-sorry about the negative posts- I heard them before too. I hunt in AL where ANY centerfire expanding caliber is legal for deer-Rem 17 Fireball is "legal", just not ethical. I have hunted deer here since 1970, by stalk, dog drives, tree stands and ground blinds with everything from 221 Fireball to 3" 12ga slugs/buckshot. I have taken deer cleanly w/ .221/ .222/ .223/ .22-250(handgun)/ .220 Swift/ .243/.25-06/ .308/.30-06/7mm-08(rifle & handgun)/ .44 mag(rifle and handgun) and 12ga shotgun(slug & buckshot). My point is shot placement-period. I shoot a lot(LEO/ Firearms Instructor/Hunter/Reloader/Target shooter-teaching grandkids to shoot). The last hunt I hosted on my lease last year I dropped a 100# doe in her tracks with a Rem 788 .222(50gr Hornady VMax/w748), my guest shot a doe smaller that mine from a shooting house with a Weatherby .300 Mag/180 Rem bullet at less that 50 yds and we tracked it into a creek 75 yds from the greenfield where we recovered her. Exit wound was about 3" wide and most internal organs were jello? Except for 1 steep down hill shot where I knee-capped a buck( long before ARC technology), I have never lost a deer I shot. The longest blood trail I saw was 200 yds+(but down hill towards me then into a creek-about 30' wide) from an 8 pt 130 class buck I shot w/ a .30-06 130gr. Speer JHP load over 3K fps. The tree I was in was on the creek bank.
Thanks Guys;
Due to extenuating circumstances and the snow being too deep, I didn't get out very much during big game season and didn't score. I didn't take any chances though and took my 30/30 for the 6 hours or so that I was able to get out.
Now my .223 will be aimed at coyotes and foxes although for the foxes if I have a choice will be my .17 HMR or .22 Hornet...don't want to be too destructive..
About a week before big game season I got a nice red fox with my .17 HMR . About 100 yards with a Federal 17gr poly-point..he dropped like a rock.
The first deer i ever shot was with a Remington 7 .223 loaded with blue box black hills 55grs which i believe are speer or sierra bullets. The deer was broadside at about 140 yards he bullet seems to have entered right in to his lungs before blowing to pieces. One small .22 caliber hole one the out side and not much left on the in. I have heard good reports about the sierra 65 Gamekings being a great tough bullet for 100 pound + whitetail. I do the feel the least bit under gunned with the model 7 in 223.
Saw my hunting buddy shoot three deer with a .223, all ran less than 30 yards. All hits were in the heart/front shoulder area, and lots of damage.
it is totally possible to kill a deer with a 223 farmers kill sick cattle with 22lr but with so many better and more ethical choices out there why would you? if you want a challange shoot paper at long range i dont feel its right to use a cartridge that small for a 200+ lb animal. what you do is your choice but i don't feel anything smaller than a 243 is good enough i hope i never wound a deer and have it suffer and die of infection days later
.
Have no personal experience with the 223 on game animals.
But have spent time with African PHs who do a lot of culling with their 22 Hornets, which they preferred to the 223 Remington.
Some PHs downloaded 223 Remingtons to match the ballistics of the 22 Hornet.
They took animals as large as eland with their Hornets.
.
If you were to consider all the deer that have been shot and killed in the history of man, both legal and illegal, since the invention of gun powder probably the cartridge that has single handedly killed more deer than any other cartridge is the 22LR. It quiet, deadly and effective.
With that being said, and lots of folks will agree, a .223 will do a number on a deer and kill them as dead as any other cartridge with proper shot placement. On the other hand, with poor shot placement, a 375 H&H will let a deer run as far as any other cartridge.
exactly!!!! bigger does not always mean better if you still cannot hit
what you are aiming at. another thing to be carefull with is your surroundings with the 223 small limbs and even grass can effect where you hit your target. but in open terrian i would not hesitate 1 second to shoot as far as i am comfortable shooting at a deer or anyother animal. i personally have killed deer and a hog with the 223, the deer just happened to come in close he dropped right there, the hog was close to 200yds she also fell where she stood and if i would have been quicker on the reload i could have gotten another at the same time. so in my oppinion the 223 is every bit capable, the question is are you.
J
Killed quite a few with a 223 using 70gr speer soft points. never had one run away.
Steve
It is more important to be accurate with your rifle than the caliber. I have shot deer with a 223, my grandpa only used 222 remington. Of course they were accurate. The biggest thing I found is for you to be comfortable with your rifle, I'll take a deer on the run at 150 with my 223 because I know it so well but i wouldn't take a shot at a deer with a borrowed 30-06 that I don't know how it shoots.
Accuracy / bullet placement / bullet selection and practice, practice, practice..
I dropped to lower recoiling rifles, and my success rate went up. I practiced shooting more, lost any semblance of a flinch and was able to observe the situation better immediately after the shot.
If the US military consider a steel jacketed bullet lethal enough for their forces, the new engineered bullets for game ought to be able to do the right job - IF placed properly, but that applies to any bullet.
SC
in my younger days i did hunt deer with a .223 ruger mini-14. since then i have moved up to other rounds. at the time i used remington core lockt ammo bought at walmart.
the only person i know who still hunts deer( white tail not mule) with a is my nephew. he would hunt with something more powerful but last time he shot his fathers .243 it almost tipped his wheelchair over. he needs the super light recoil from .223 because of his disability. ( not trying to say only disabled people do it just saying the only person i know is disabled).
if you are going to do it you need ot become a master of shot placement to be humane or get yourself some really good optics
my two copper coins
chewy
If you laughed, snorted, or even smiled after reading this sentence, you are going to hell.Quote:
Originally Posted by chewcudda