Brass tumblers

I think it's time to take that big step into the 20th century. (not quite ready for the 21st) I'm looking at buying a brass tumbler. Too many cases from several calibers come Sunday night & my fingers aren't getting any younger. Neither am I.

What are y'all using for a case tumbler.? Is any one brand better that the others. I'll be needing one that'll be worked pretty hard. After a Sunday of shooting there's typically 70 to 90 spent cases to clean, not including what I find while scavenging.

Somebody tell me about the media used also. I hear things about stainless steel pins(?) being used. What's the deal with the media used as far as length of service, how well it cleans, etc.

Enlighten me oh shooters of the switch barrel thunder stick.

Thanx in advance.

Frank in Fla

So after reading great reviews of cleaning brass using stainless steel pins, I had to give it a try. The media and lemishine is not expensive and will supposedly last forever in home use, so I sent off my order. I just ran a batch of boxer primed brass and was blown away how shiny it was cleaned. I then decided to try decapping the mountain of 8mm Mauser berdan primed brass and see how that would clean up. The 1950's Yugoslavian brass is not comparable to current Privy / PMC brass but I thought that it is anyway the first step to possibly finding a way to use it.

So here starts the fun part. First picture is the un clean shells. Not in bad shape, but nothing to make anyone excited and certainly too dirty to reload.
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...o-cleaning.jpg

OK, so much for that. Note the black muck in the neck and primer pocket ?

Now here is what a single shell looks like after tumbling for 4 hours in the pin media with only soap and the Lemi shime.
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...ss-+-Pins1.jpg

Here is a different view showing the primer pocket
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...ss-+-pins2.jpg

Here you can see that the inside of the case neck is clean
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...e-of-case1.jpg

Here is a better view inside the primer pocket:
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...mer-pocket.jpg

Here are the clean shells after rinsing and drying on a towel
http://keithandseija.com/Blog/wp-con...ss-cleaned.jpg

The vendor who sells the media is http://www.stainlesstumblingmedia.com/
Great company, great product...

Stainless makes your brass shine like jewelry. Better than new.

OK.... It's starting to sound like stainless is the way to go but...

West - Am I reading that advertisement right? 45 bananas for 5lbs of SS pins? How long does the stuff last?

Frank in Fla

It lasts forever. The one hitch is that it needs to be in a rotary tumbler. Won't work in a vibe.

Got it.... Rotary, not vibe...

Good info from y'all. Most appreciative. Now.... I guess I need to do a little price shopping.

Thanks again, gents.
Frank in Fla

With 260&6.5 brass the stainless media gets stuck in the necks. I dont know if they have cured that problem yet. Just a heads up. Other than that I love the stainless media.

Let's back up a second here....

Rotary / tumbler - as in NOT the ultrasonic type. Like this or a reasonable facsimile?
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/158...mbler-110-volt

Am I on the right track here or maybe somebody can put up a brand & model number I can look up.
Sick today.... Back to bed.
Thanks y'all
Frank in Fla

The company that sells the media also sells suitable tumblers and separators to make it easy to get the pins out the brass. The "correct" tumblers have a thick rubber insert and you want the largest diameter you can afford so that there is some real "tumbling" action. For 100 shots a week, you can pour the pins out by hand. Also, with modern powder, I found there is no need to run the tumbler longer than 1 hour. No need to tumble any more than needed.

Go back up and look at Westcliffe01 case mouth photo, one of the bad points of tumbling in a rotary case tumbler and using stainless steel pins is peening of the case mouth. Look closely at the mouth of the case and you will see dent or dings directly on the case mouth. This is caused by the cases hitting each other and dinging the mouth of the case, if the cases are left in too long the peening action can even cause the mouth to flare. The height of the water in the tumbler, the speed of the drum and how many cases (volume) you have in each batch will effect the peening action and how forceful the cases hit each other.

Now look at the photo directly below the case mouth photo at the base of the case, the case looks like it has been bead blasted with the surface covered with very small dents. This is caused by the pins tips and over tumbling (sorry Westcliffe01 it happened to me also)

Below is a photo of my .223 case mouth and the same peening that happened to Westcliffe01. If you have chronologically gifted eyesight the only way you will see this is with a magnifying glass so be careful. Just remember not all pins are made the same way and some have very sharp ends that can eat the surface of your brass.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...p51/peen-a.jpg

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...p51/peen-b.jpg

To reduce the case scratching by the pins I left the case tumbler run all night with Russian steel cartridge cases to ware down the tip ends. "Some" pins when cut have very sharp ends. Your tumbling time is not written in stone and they should be checked every hour when the pins are new until you get a feel for the time required with your brand and type pins. The stainless steel pins and rotary tumbling can be far more aggressive than vibrating with corn cob or walnut media.

Below are much more expensive pins used to polish silver jewelry, they have rounded blunt tip ends that do not damage the material being polished.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...p51/pins-a.jpg

I like my rotary case tumbler and using stainless steel pins, BUT less is more on tumbling times and use a magnifying glass to check and inspect your cases. These pins are bought from the cheapest bidders and not all pins are created equal. I have seen photos of short pins stuck in primer pockets and other damage so be careful.

Excellent info BigEd. I'm obliged. So it sounds like depending on the type of pin or how it's cut, it may be beneficial to run them with something that'll settle them down a bit. Like a picture of my ex-wife. That'll make even stainless softer edged.

Thanks again gentlemen & special thanks the BigEd. I appreciate your input & my arthritic fingers are thanking you already & I haven't even picked one out yet.
Back to bed. Really feeling miserable now...

Frank in Fla

I would like to suggest that the recommended tumbling times from the maker are far too long. I suggest that you run the tumbler for 1/2 an hour and check on the condition. I find that I don't need to tumble anything longer than 3/4 hour where the manufacturer was recommending 4-6 hours. Big difference in the effect you would get from running that much longer.

I use about a tablespoon of laundry detergent and something else I do that is not discussed is I fill the tumbler with the hottest water I can get out the faucet and let the shells sit in that for about 15min to cool down before I start tumbling. If you try to tumble with water that is too hot it seems to generate a bit of steam and push water past the seal making a big mess. I think the hot water and laundry detergent works loose the carbon and primer deposits very fast and the pins simply act to scour the surface.

Thanks for the info West. i need to be careful with water here. We're on a well & the water is loaded with minerals & things like iron & lime. When you drink it, it's like a mouthful of nails it's got so much iron. I'll figure something out, as usual.

Thanks again & thanks to all for your input.
frank in Fla

Frank, I think the water quality on the rinse is more important than on the wash. Also, if you dry them fast enough (ideally blow them out with compressed air) then you will have no issues.

I don't know where you got your pins, but mine are cut off square and have already been deburred with media before they are sold. I have had no quality issue in the 15lb worth of pins that I bought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigedp51

Just remember not all pins are made the same way and some have very sharp ends that can eat the surface of your brass.

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o...p51/pins-a.jpg

I like my rotary case tumbler and using stainless steel pins, BUT less is more on tumbling times and use a magnifying glass to check and inspect your cases. These pins are bought from the cheapest bidders and not all pins are created equal. I have seen photos of short pins stuck in primer pockets and other damage so be careful.

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I bought the setup from STM and it works great,brand new brass when your done,.I have had an issue with pins sticking in the flashhole,,kind of a pain to get em out.

I had one of those Lyman vibratory tumblers. It lasted about two before the motor locked up. Lyman said it was out of warranty.

A buddy of mine found an "old" Midway one in a storage unit last year. I gave him $5 for it and it is still running strong.

Those are the only ones I have experience with.

If I were you and I had $250 to drop on a tumbler and supplies, I'd go stainless and skip dealing with vibratory tumblers/disposable media. I've used both methods for several years, and stainless (STM Kit) works much better for me.

Although slightly more labor intensive then vibratory tumbling, stainless steel will get you better than new brass every single time. The only downside I've seen is the added labor of separating the pins from the cases (i.e. dunking them in a water tank), and then having to remove stuck pins from flash holes and case mouths.

I'm somewhat surprised to see what others have posted about it peening the brass. I have never personally had issues with case deformation like others describe, but I've read of 2-3 others on various forums claim it damaged their brass.

Keep in mind though, with a vibratory tumbler, you're still going to have to clean primer pockets, and it won't ever get the inside of the case clean. I always found them messy as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeMcC

I'm somewhat surprised to see what others have posted about it peening the brass. I have never personally had issues with case deformation like others describe, but I've read of 2-3 others on various forums claim it damaged their brass.

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Most of the time the peening can only be seen with a magnifying glass and it is best to tumble the cases and then trim to length as this will remove the dents in the case mouth. I'm 62 and have chronologically gifted eyesight and could not see the problem without magnification. I did not find this problem until reading about it in other forums because the target shooter were complaining about it. In most cases the average person would not see the peening with the naked eye and I could not see any problem with the cases I posted photos of above without magnification. Just remember the cartridge cases will hit each other in the tumbler denting the case mouths, and the longer they are in the tumbler the more peening you will have.

I tried my Thumler's and pins for the first time tonight. I was happy with the number of cases I could clean at once, but was not overly impressed with the "clean". I did 100 .280 AI cases and only tumbled for 1.25 hours. The outside was amazing and blingy, but the primer pockets did not get as clean as the ultra sonic gets them. The inside of the cases were about as clean as the ultra sonic can get them, but again, it wasn't any where near 100 cases. I think I will try it for 2 hours next time and see how it goes. I didn't have any problem with pins sticking in the case mouth or in the flash hole.

What did you use for detergent ? Did you use hot or warm water ? If the water was really black, you could be using up all the reactivity of the detergent. I suggest you try one of the concentrated detergents (the HE type). My primer pockets were all impeccably clean.

Remember that the brass and media need to move when tumbling. Too little media or too much media and brass does not work too well.

I have a vibration tumbler with I believe nut shell media. I dont use it anymore in favor of the ultrasonic bath cleaner. I dont have a picture but they look clean enough for me but I am not to anal about having shinny brass and mostly care about having carbon deposit removed. I mean, they get shiny but not gold looking shiny...

If you want BIG http://www.harborfreight.com/18-lb-v...ose-96923.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Westcliffe01

What did you use for detergent ? Did you use hot or warm water ? If the water was really black, you could be using up all the reactivity of the detergent. I suggest you try one of the concentrated detergents (the HE type). My primer pockets were all impeccably clean.

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I am pretty sure they suggest cold water on the website, so that is what I used. The water was really black, but there was a lot of suds in the first batch so I don't know what to say there. I am using Dawn HE.
.280 AI after 1 hr
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/IMG_2955.jpg

.338 Edge and .44 Mag before
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/IMG_2974.jpg

.338 Edge and .44 Mag after 2 hours, same recipe as the .280AI cases.
http://i944.photobucket.com/albums/a...0/IMG_2976.jpg

2 hours was much better than 1 hour!!!

Try the warm water or try hot water, but let the shells sit and soak and when it has cooled some, then run the tumbler. I think the primer residue is hard to disolve in cold water. The rubber lining and the stainless pins and brass won't mind warm water and we all know your clothes come out the washer cleaner if you use at least warm water and whites even better with hot water.

I try to keep the actual tumbling time as low as needed to reduce any work hardening.

Go get some lemishine from the dishwasher detergent section of your grocery store. Add a tablespoon of that to your batch, and they'll come out looking just fine. You don't need to add more of your HE detergent.

They suggest using 1/4 tsp of Lemi Shine. I used 1/4tsp in the first batch, and 1/2 tsp in the second batch. I am happier with the second batch, although I think it was a little too heavy for the tumbler.

!00 of the 280 brass seems a little much to me at one time. I have found hot or warm water will make the brass darker and not as shiny. I have used the stainless for a couple of years now and have never had a pin stuck in a flash hole. The only problem I have had is with 6.5 cases with the pins sticking in the necks. Overall I am totally satisfied with the stainless media.

thumblers tumbler type b heavy duty
google that & youll find a guy who sells a kit complete with media for about 250.00
you will never ever find a better way to clean brass
or a cheaper way after the initial investment
as for as the peening concerns
its very minimal
I only tumble for an hour or two at the most & my brass is cleaner than new
& I inside -outside champher after cleaning
but really even if you didnt I dont see it as being a problem
I use hot water & whatever dish soap is on the sink & tiny biy of lemmy shine
for really ugly brass soak it 1st in water -vinager soulution for a couple hours
best brass cleaning system period.........