I have a model 16 that often fails to completely eject a fired case. What do I need to do to fix this problem?
Thanks for any help.
Printable View
I have a model 16 that often fails to completely eject a fired case. What do I need to do to fix this problem?
Thanks for any help.
Are you operating the bolt slowly?
What caliber?
There are some fixes, or depending upon what type of shooting you're doing, removing the ejector altogether and picking the brass off the head is one solution I've applied to all my bench shooting rifles. Don't have to worry about losing my carefully prepared brass that way, and it goes right back into the loading tray in the order it came out.
Replacing the ball under the extractor with a 9/64 steel ball may help. A modified extractor kit from SSS will also help. Clipping a turn off the ejector spring might do it too.
In my 223 (with the ejector in place) I found that snapping the bolt back quickly with my finger tips I could catch the case mid flight and place back in the tray. Some still got away from me so I simply removed the ejector. Now I don't have to work so hard.:cool:
IME, the 223 are the worst at failing to eject completely. The reason is that as the case is pulled out of the chamber it snaps hard against the bolt lug abutments, leaving a dent in the case just below the shoulder ( I could count the number of cycles on the brass this way) and that jars it out of the grip of the extractor. So now when the barrel is off the action I blend the corner of that abutment to lessen damage to the brass on rifles I used in the field and want to eject normally.
EDIT to correct size of steel ball in extractor per @Robinhoods suggestion. Good catch RH!
It can also be weak ejector pin spring or dirty ejector pin:)
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
The cartridge is .250 Savage. I operate the bolt in a slow fashion so I can catch the brass, but it seems that most of the time when I open the bolt, the brass just comes out part way and then lays there so I have to reach in with a pencil and grab the case mouth etc. I have taken out the bolt and cleaned around all parts with a dental pick and Ed's Red, and I still have the problem.
Replacing the ball under the extractor with a 5/64 steel ball may help. A modified extractor kit from SSS will also help. Clipping a turn off the ejector spring might do it too.
How does a guy go about doing this?
Operate the bolt smartly. Use a piece of tarpaulin to catch the brass.
I always use a 9/64ths ball. Should I be using a 5/64ths. :o
Quote:
I still have the problem.
SHUZ: Be sure and let us know what, if anything, you did to resolve the issue. The fix is always a bit more informative than the problem.
I've really done it now, haven't I?
Only now I'm having a total brain fart. Is it 9/64 or 5/16?
If you've never had the bolt apart before, you can search this forum or the interwebs for some instructional videos.
You'll need a 1/16 pin punch to remove the cross pin on the ejector.
The extractor is easier, just slide it off towards the outside of the bolt head. And then order some 9/64 (?!!) steel balls off Amazon. You'll probably get a bag of 100 so you won't have to tear apart your loading room when one launches itself during the process, and that's guaranteed to happen so do your work it inside a plastic bag to catch the flying parts.
What is the size of the stock ball used in the extractor?
Looks like I created a lot of confusion on this issue. I'm sorry. For, hopefully the last time, what is the size ball I should get?
thanks,
Shuz
Ok, thanks for the help. I'll get a 9/64" ball. Now I need to find out how to install it. Can someone help? Pleeez!
Thanks,
Shuz
Just a suggestion- Go to ACE hardware or similar, and get a few balls of what came with the bolt and a few a tad larger and see what works best in your bolt. They are no more than sixty cents each and probably less.
Mr. Hood- It is good to see that someone remembers fifth grade mathematics.
Plz see post #19. I need help in finding a good set of instructions on how to replace the ball.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ert1Sw-HfHc
Not directly about the ball but does show you what you need
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Yes, follow that video. It’s easy enough. I actually use 3.5mm Si3N4 ceramic detent ball. Amazon has them.
Thanks for posting the video link. I should be able to do that once I get the 9/64th ball. A guy would think that if he replaced the original extractor and ball with a stock ball, spring, and extractor from Savage, he'll prolly eventually experience the same problem over again!?
I've tried some local hardware stores and can't come up with a 9/64" steel ball! I guess I can scour the bike shops next!
Here. https://www.amazon.com/s?k=9%2F64+steel+ball&ref=is_s
You can also use 3.5mm which is less than .004” of the .140” 9/64. I use a 3.5mm Silicon Nitride ball. Much harder than steel and almost indestructible.
LOL! Rob....too funny brother!! LOL!
I got this Shuz. https://www.amazon.com/3-5-CERAMIC-B...-1-spons&psc=1
But you may want to grab a few “just in case”. Pretty easy to lose it. They are sold in packets of 10 for just a couple dollars more. I was certain I would not lose it so only got one. But I have done this many times.
I found packs of 100 on fleabay. I may do that so you guys that let your balls roll off can PM me for a replacement. :cool:
Would one of you folks be willing to send me 5 of those balls for $5.00?
You can’t order it from the link I gave you? It’s Amazon. Who doesn’t use Amazon??
Lol... hey, I resemble that remark! Hahaha.
Shuz, this is the link for 10 of the 3.5mm ceramic. https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Cerami...gateway&sr=8-3
And this is 10 of the SS 9/64”. https://www.amazon.com/uxcell-Precis...-1-spons&psc=1
May want to work with the bolt head in a see thru plastic bag, them little balls sure do like to fly around.
^ yep
short round-
Not a maybe at all. I learned the lesson the hard way on another rifle a while ago. Especially if you have a dog around.
BTW
McmASter Carr or Fastenal. You might pay more for shipping that the product and their minimum count is more than you need.
I had my wife order me some of the steel balls from Amazon. supposed to be here today! ThANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!
LOL... ONE of those Si3N4 BB’s I use IS MORE than one needs!
Just shy the hardness of CBN & diamond, a Silicon Nitride BB is not likely to wear out in SEVERAL lifetimes! But yes....one slip and “KERR-Pling”! By-by ball bearing! LOL.
If you look at the function of the ball in the system, I don't think anything harder that 30 Rc is needed. 52100 bearing steel is much harder than that at 64 +or- 3 Rc.
Yes, you are correct Robin. My intention was light hearted humor..., not actually insinuating that near diamond hardness is needed for ANYTHING on a firearm!
Coming from a firearms background and THEN learning custom knife-making later, it’s been easy to see the stark differences in metallurgy between the two. But I have come across a few ONLY involved in knife making...and then learning the metallurgy characteristics surrounding firearms. Most every part on a firearm seems ’bout soft as lead when compared to knife steel! LOL. And dealing with the likes of 4140/50, 8620, 416R, 9310 etc., to the world of High Speed, High Alloy, stainless steels with more Carbon than MOST Carbon Steels & Powder Metals or Particle Metallurgy, can be QUITE an eye opener. Fascinating material.
That is exactly it Robin.
Yes..I’ve worked with firearms most of my life now.. I started knifemaking about 7 years ago.., before my accident. But it became something more within the last 5 years. Although I have a working knowledge of forging, all my knives are made via stock removal. I would love to be able to forge again, but it’s simply not possible with one arm/hand(for me). I’m sure someone, at sometime has done it, LOL!
Well, I replaced the stock 1/8" ball with a 9/64" ball and it didn't correct the problem. I suppose the problem now lies with the extractor piece itself. Perhaps it is not long enuf!?
At a match today, 80 percent of the time when I opened the bolt to extract the fired cartridge, the spent cartridge just lays there in the action. It didn't seem to matter if I operated the bolt smartly or took my sweet old time.
What do you all suggest I do next?