Trying to decide on which 6.5 long action to build. It's going to be a long range hunting rifle. I do reload. Kinda looking at the 6.5 x 284 or 6.5-06ai. Any suggestions?
Printable View
Trying to decide on which 6.5 long action to build. It's going to be a long range hunting rifle. I do reload. Kinda looking at the 6.5 x 284 or 6.5-06ai. Any suggestions?
6.5x55ai would be nice and have great lupua brass cheap.
6.5-06 or 264 magnum
I'll have to look into that one. Do you know how it compares to the others?
For as much love as the 6.5-06 gets on this site, there are a lot of people that disregard the .260 rem and .260 AI.
The PJ260 will push 140s to 2,900 fps easy.
The 260 AI will push 140s over 3,000 fps easy.
Both will be more than adequate for what you're wanting.
Also consider that both the 6.5x284 and 6.5-06 AI are going to be barrel burners to say the least.
For (hunting) guns, you will shoot it more working up loads than you will for many years to follow.
Buy a 308 to practice with and save the barrel burner for hunting and a few rounds each year to
confirm zero. Consider this also, while the 6.5 cartridges are very good, 3000 fps with a 160+ gr bullet
is still better than with a 140 gr bullet for hunting. And a 7mm rem mag would give you that without
being the barrel burner the hot 6.5s would be. It would also give you more options to use both lighter and
heavier bullets up to 190 grains. Use at minimum a 26" barrel for best results. A 28" would offer the option
of later rechambering to a larger 7mm cartridge should you desire more horsepower.
You bring up some good points. I've been going back and forth between building a gun more for practice and targets or strictly for hunting. This will be my first build but not my first gun. I'm 40 now and have grown up with them:).
I am a believer in shot placement over biggest bullet to an extent. But a 7mm is somethings I'd strongly consider.
I you like 6.5 bullets in a short action, 7mm bullets in a long action are just that much better. .280, .284, 7mm rem mag are just a few that will do everything you ever ask and be way easier on barrels than the 6.5's. You can shoot 195g all the way down to I think 120gr. High bc's, heavy weight, suited for anything that walks this country.
I'm going to look harder at the 7mm before I make a decision. Any thoughts on the 7 stw?
Will the .260ai work in the factory la magazine?
My opinion, is find a great load out of your rifle, then chrono the load to help develop the drop charts. Extreme muzzle velocity is not my end goal, but a great shooting load that is easier on the barrel. If I have to adjust the scope a few clicks, then that's what I'm going to have to do.
That being said, I do love the 7mm rem mag. It's very accurate, brass is plentiful, you have a much wider support for cartridges, but the biggest advantage over the other 6.5 cartridges out there, is you will always be able to find ammo for the rem mag out of just about every shooting store. I cannot say that about any of the 6.5s. I can get those, but those tend to be specialty cartridges. I reload too, but if I do plan on hunting anywhere out of my area and I forget my ammo, it's nice to run to the store, buy some ammo, then sight in my rifle.
The 7mm stw (shooting times westerner) started life as a wildcat cartridge. It is the 8 mm mag case necked down to 7mm.
Balisticly speaking it has about identicle performance as the 300 Weatherby case necked down to 7mm and known as the
7x300 Weatherby. I have been using the 7x300 Wby for about 45 years for long range hunting. I have a 9 twist barrel
which will stabilize the 180 gr bullets. Ive not tried the newer heavier ones but I doubt the twist in my gun would work well.
Weve killed more deer over many years with the 7x300 than all others we have combined. Meaning, most of the deer weve shot
have been less than 1000 yds. I find the 162 gr Hornady bullets still to be the best choice for me. With those I have seen velocities close to 3500 fps on cooler days. I don't recommend using loads that hot however. For hunting my load is about 3350 fps with the 162 gr hornady.
That is about 350fps faster than you will see from a 7 rem mag with the same bullet. The barrel one one of my 2 7x300s was originaly a 7 rem mag on a 40x rem rifle.
I had killed a deer at about 850 yds with a good hit, but the following year the gun was a 7x300 wby.
There is no substitute for mass coupled with velocity for long range hunting, and the longer the distance the more that applies.
The 7mm ultramag has a slight velocity advantage over both the others mentioned. Another very good large 7mm is the 284 Baer.
It uses the 340 weatherby case necked to 7mm. And there is also the newer 260 Nosler.
You're opening a different can of worms with 7mm rounds.
- 7mm Rem Mag
- 7mm WSM
- 7mm SAUM
- 7mm STW
- 7mm Practical (.300wm necked down to 7mm)
- 7mm Sherman
- 7mm Dakota
- 7mm-300 Wby
I mean you have SO many options if that's the route you so choose. Most of them are going to be barrel burners, some more so than others. If you're looking for those kinds of velocities out of 170+ weight projectiles, something, somewhere is going to have to give... And that usually ends up being the barrel.
That being said, the performance, especially for long range hunting, with any of those 7mms is going to be hard to beat. The .260ai should fit in your standard LA's but it won't hold a match to some of those 7's for what you're wanting to do... Look up 'LongRange's build thread as I believe that he has done some testing with the .260ai, that should answer some of the questions that you have about the bigger badder 6.5s.
Great info! Thanks. I need to do some soul searching on what I want:). I believe a 6.5 can do everything I need at the present time with less recoil. But the 7mm opens up more possibilities.
Actually Winnie the performance of the 7mms isn't hard to beat. We have been very fortunate over the years
to have had very good bullets brought to market.
If you would go back to the 60s, the 6.5x300 Weatherby was the go to cartridge for serious long range hunters of which there were plenty in PA even then.
The reason was simply because the (only) good bullet was then the 139 gr Norma match bullet. (illeagle for use in PA due to its metal jacket)
But as soon as Hornady introduced the .284 162 gr match bullet that all changed. As good bullets began to appear in other calibers, guns were built for them. The 30x378 cartridge is a prime example, as is more recently the 338 cartridges.
Opinions on all this are actually meaningless. We all have them for whatever our reasons, but fact is that's all they are, opinions.
Anybody thinking their going to make a 7mm a better gun than a 30 cal is simply wrong, and that isn't an opinion, but simply a fact.
As for barrel burning, that will of coarse vary from individual to individual depending on how much they shoot their gun.
For what its worth, I'm still using a 30" Hart barrel chambered for 7x300 Wby since the early 70s. Its been used strictly for hunting and early on some rock shooting.
About 5 years ago I had Bruce Baer scope the barrel. (Any fool can buy a bore scope, but it takes an educated fool
to know what he's looking at lol). He said it still looked pretty good and so long as it still shot decent keep using it. I doubt there are 800 rounds thru that barrel in all these years.
Early on it was my only gun, but within a couple years I had recognized its limitations for best results. That brought about a 30x378 with heavier bullets which is now history also in favor of a 338.
They are all barrel burners, but that's the cost of admission if you want to play. But there is no need to be shooting these things just to keep yourself tuned up. A smaller gun like a 260 or a 308 is all you need for that.
I'd agree on certain things but it's not simply 7mm vs. .30 cal. There are too many variations thereof to make it that easy, and application is going to have A LOT to do with what's considered 'most effective.' There are plenty of 7mms that will outperform .30 cals in certain situations, and vice versa. In a vacuum, yes, .30 cals are superior to 7mms because they are larger diameter (and often heavier), nothing else.
Fortunately (or unfortunately) it's not quite as simple as that in the world of shooting, but I can tell you that there are plenty of guys that would prefer the higher velocity/flatter trajectory of a 7mm vs. .30 cal. It really just comes down to personal preference. 'Superior performance' lies in the eyes of the beholder, so whether you think a 7mm can or can't perform to the level of a .30 cal really just depends.
Velocity is hands down better with 30 cal Winnie if you go with the larger 30 calibers.
With a 30x378 you could send a 230 berger at better speeds than with a large 7mm with the 195s.
And frankly, if you shoot less than 285/300 gr bullets in the 338s with less than about 2900 fps velocity, you might just as well stick with 30 cal.
Huh?
That's true if you're doing your "style" of hunting, ridge top to ridge top at 1500 yards and more. Here, west of the Cascades, a 300 yard shot is rare so a 338 Federal is plenty, even for elk. I've killed more elk with my 350 Remington Mags than all the other rifles in my safe, and I've never had to pass up a shot due to the limitations of the cartridge - and there are many. Drive to the other side of the Cascades, about 50 miles, and it's a whole different ballgame, but even the lowly 338 Winchester pushing a 250 at 2650 is more than enough to get the job done.
And let's do apples to apples - as far as case capacity goes your 30x378 will not push a 230 faster than a 7x378 with a 195 no matter how you slice it. The 7 wins for the 7-800 rounds you'd get out of a barrel. I'd still choose the 30x378 though just for the added energy, if I needed something that powerful here.
I'm sorry yobuck but that's simply incorrect. A 30-378 will sling 200gr bullets to MAYBE 3,100 fps. A 7mm Allen Magnum (based on a .338 Lapua case) will sling 200 gr bullets over 3,300 fps. The point being that all else being equal, namely case capacity, 7mm velocity will ALWAYS trump .30 cal velocity. This is not opinion, this is fact.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'larger .30 calibers,' but at least compare apples to apples.
One question, have you personaly ever seen, or do you have any friends who have owned, shot or even watched a 7x378 shot?
How about a 6.5x378? What were talking about here is not reality in any practical sence, but really what id refer to as mental masturbation.
The 6.5 and the 7x378 were both tried many many years ago and I can name a few who tried them and name who built the guns.
I can also tell you who refused to build the guns. The names of the good gunsmiths are well known today. Call a few and ask about these type ideas.
Dismal failure is all I can say about both of them. It would be a 6.5 wsm in spades, and as we both know that's a failure also.
You will have pressure before you can obtain the velocity you can get with the 30 caliber with the 7mm using the heavy bullets.
I couldn't match the velocity of my 7x300 wby with my 6.5 wsm comparing 140s to the 162s. because of pressure problems.
Put together a real 30x378 on a custom action and a barrel of 32" or more using 230 gr bullets and then lets talk and compare guns.
Look, that custom 30x378 can send a 200 gr bullet at 3500 fps and you can take that to the bank. Yet a 338 cartridge at 3000 fps with a 300 gr will have passed the 30x378 before they reach 1500 yds and you can take that to the bank also. So why would anybody think a 7mm with a 195 at (maybe) 3250 fps would stand a chance against either of those at that distance?
All that said, if I were forced to keep just one of my hunting guns, it would be one of my 7x300 wbys.
Now as for the type of hunting some of us do in some segments of the state of PA is by choice. Each of us could if we chose, make the same choice. Not everybody including those who live in those areas choose to hunt that way.
I have been residing in Florida for 16 years and frankly I could hunt here without even buying a licence since i'm over 65. Same goes for fishing here, that's free also for residents over 65.
I drive 1200 miles each way and buy non res PA hunting and fishing licenses because that's my choice. Life is all about choices, hunting and how we hunt is but one of them.
Short answer: Yes. With today's powder selection, the 7x378 is more feasible than it was 60 years ago when you were mentally masturbating or whatever you choose to call it. Barrel life is still an issue, accuracy had fallen off after 250 rounds in 2 different kreiger barrels. He's happier now with the 30/378 and isn't looking for an alternative. But it's overkill on this side of the states.
He originally said long range hunting.
That's going to take some practice to be proficient.
Other things. How far on average? Are you recoil shy? Etc.
If it's deer at 4-500 yards and you don't care for recoil, a 260 or 6.5-06 would be fine. A little more zip? Ackley either of them.
The cartridge, within reason, really doesn't matter as long as you can shoot it and use the bullet the hat will best accomplish what you need IMO.
You opened a can of worms asking a bunch of rifle loonies to help.:help:
If the game is larger or extreme distance, then sure, a 7 or 300 is probably a good idea.
Just pick something you're comfortable shooting and can become very familiar with. There are lots of variables involved when you stretch one out.
By the way, when you hop on the slippery slope of building rifles, barrels are consumables.
Where are you getting these numbers? I'd like to see this 'custom 30-378' shoot that 200gr projectile 3,500 fps. Nosler's maximum published load for their 200gr Accubond is just over 3,000. So what you're saying is that one can reasonably expect to gain about 15% velocity in a custom rifle? I'm sorry but something doesn't sound right.
Furthermore, they're showing their 220gr Accubond traveling just a hair over 2,900 fps... The .338 Lapua 250gr Accubond is shown traveling around the same - just a little over 2,900 fps. So I think it's safe to say that a 230gr bullet out of the 30-378 is hardly sniffing the performance of a 285/300gr .338.
Again, compare similar weight bullets and case capacities if you're going to compare different calibers. There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fantastic round - it is - but to say that it has better velocity over a comparably sized 7mm or that it will match and surpass the performance of a .338 Lapua ballistically is just not true.
Getting slightly off track here.
Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)
Well you did confirm what I said, and for what its worth, ive always been a follower on these type things.
Its got to be shown to me before I can come to grips with reality just like many others. But the wheel does get reinvented
in every generation.
As for the powders we had, for sure there were fewer of them. But that dosent mean there weren't some good ones,
with many still very popular today. That's especially true for cartridges like 30x378s.
I still have a small supply of ww2 surplus h570 which is a powder most today would have never heard of.
Were finding it offers the best all round performance in my sons 338x378 over all the others
weve tried including rl33. When I mentioned this to Bruce Baer, he asked me if id tried it in my 338 Big Baer.
I said I hadn't, to which he said well you should, that's what I use in mine for hunting.
It is also the most accurate powder in my 7x300 wby although 7828 gives more velocity and decent accuracy.
If you look in an older Sierra loading manual you will find the 7x300 wby listed for just one load. That would be the load
Mary Louise DeVito used to set the first recognised Williamsport group record. It was 87 gr h570 with a 168 smk.
Reality is we weren't lacking for anything we needed for this 50 years ago. We even found ways of ranging things then hitting them
with scopes and equiptment being laughed at today. But bring your Vectrinix, and money, and we'll see who laughs best.
Ok. 500 or less.Quote:
Thanks for the reply. Not sure what I started here:). I have 1 bolt action gun a .270 win. I've had it for 20 years and love it. I enjoy being able to put a rifle together that is custom to me. I also like having something different then the guys I hunt/shoot with have. Pretty much everyone has either a .270, 30-06 or .300 min mag. I don't find the .300 fun to shoot so if I went with a cal with more punch I'd look into a brake. I live in Michigan and where I hunt a 150 yard shot is long. we started going out to eastern Montana and the shot possibilities are so much different. This past year I shot a mulie at 423yds with a 130 grain sst. It dropped where it stood. I'm a believer in shoot placement and not shooting farther than I'm capable. The range I shoot @ is 500 meters. I'm looking to set up a 500yd gun. Maybe stretch that a little has I become more comfortable with practice. I do like the fast ones though:)
Huge BCs aren't going to be quite as relevant then.
The 6.5s will have plenty of punch for Bambi at that range. Most of the 6.5s also aren't bad at all on recoil. Your original 2 choices would work well for that, either of them. You want some speed and don't mind wildcats then add the 6.5 WSM. You could build a 6.5-300 Weatherby also if you don't mind belts. A little hard on barrels but it and the 6.5 WSM will zoom them for you.
I mentioned barrels are consumables. Generally the faster it runs the quicker the barrel wears so keep that in mind.
Good luck! This should be fun for you.
The 6.5x300 Weatherby was popular with hunters 50 years ago. Today nobody uses them because there are more/better options.
The 6.5 wsm is a hotrod 6.5, but I personaly found it so good I unloaded mine after 320 rounds.
There are at least 2 others here who will offer similar opinions on that cartridge. But hey I'm a lefty, maybe a righty would have different results? lol.
Everything will work well for 500 yds without using a hotrod.
Any one of the factory 6.5s or a 6.5x06 would be a good choice. So would a 270 or a 25x06 and a 308.
If I were younger and could still walk around well, id be building a 280 ai for my every day gun with the exception of varmits.
From there id be going directly to a 338 with 300 gr bullets for the longer distances.
Thank you MR Moderator, I always thought you had some resemblings of intelligence, now I know why lol.
Seriously though, about the time I got serious about long range hunting with serious guns, the 6.5 wby was
on its way to being part of history. When their barrels washed out, those having them were replacing the barrel
with a 7mm because of better bullets being available. Its really always been about bullets, then finding the best
suitable case. So I missed out on the 6.5 Wby craze, and frankly always had the feeling I might have missed something.
Even though I had friends telling me I really hadn't. When I started hearing about the 6.5wsm, my interest was aroused
enough to build one. It was a learning experience for a number of reasons none of which were good. Except I did shoot 2
antelope with it that I could have just as easily gotten with my 25/06.
Getting a bullet to a distant target is easier than until recently, most people realize.
Turn the dial on the scope and walla, its there.
Very average shooters have far more ability for hitting distant targets than
most realize given the right equiptment and very little instruction.
Hitting it again, then again, is where problems usually arise for a number of reasons.
But put a novice behind a 6.5 and have them shoot a few rounds at a rock at say 900 yds.
Then hand them a 338 with a 300 gr bullet and have them shoot at the same rock.
The 338 will make them a better shooter, and isn't that what its all about?
Bear in mind however, there is a difference between good hunting accuracy and good benchrest/target accuracy.
Also bear in mind the best tactitions don't always win when hunting.
Don't know how this degenerated into a "bigger is better", need a super duper high bc rifle for an OP that said he's a little recoil sensitive and is going to shoot max 500 yds?
Also, fwiw, the 6.5-300 Wby is so far gone Weatherby announced a while back they're factory clambering it. Geez, who really cares? And my 6.5 WSM shoots just fine, thank you.
I have nothing but respect for all you guys and your abilities but why can't we just answer what the poster asked?
Mod, if this is out of line, delete it.
OP, sorry for the rant.
No rant as far as I'm concerned, just ideas being shared some of which are backed up by our personal experiences.
I don't think ive bad mouthed any cartridges here at least for the most part. I didn't even say my 6.5 wsm didn't shoot well, (after)
all the issues were ironed out. Just that it wasent up to shooting as well as others I have which is what also killed the early 6.5 wbys.
As for the op's question, I think he got what information he needed a long time back. Hopefully he's enjoyed the rest of what he is
responsible for starting. lol
As for Weatherby reinventing the 6.5 Wby cartridge, its not the first time they've done that.
They also did it with the 30x378 about 30 years after it was invented the first time by a hillbilly farmer/ gunsmith.
What prompted Weatherby to do this wasent the fact that the world has a need. But rather they see the current
popularity of long range shooting and the 6.5 cartridges, with the hope it might help their bottom line.
Whereas 50 years ago what l/r hunters there were, were primarily found in small geographic areas and largly classified
as kooks or worse. Even long range benchrest shooting was and probably still is to some degree sneered at by the purists in that sport.
Its changing because of its popularity and the flow of dollars being spent and no other reason.
The train left the station years ago, but now everybody wants a seat. Can we spell BERGER for example.
Fact is Roy Weatherby was on the train, and were left to wonder what would have been had he lived another 25 years.
you dont need a heavy artillery to do this at 500yds...as you said most of your hunting will be closer so 243 will easily get it done....next would be a 260...a 130g bullet at 2950fps at 500yds is still over 1500ft-lbs of energy and still over 1100ft-lbs at 800yds.
you pretty much said you dont like the recoil of the 300 and a standard 7mag isnt going to be much different. if you do some research on ballistics you will find the 260 with a 140g bullet is almost identical to a 300 win mag until you get into the 200g class bullets in the WM.
Buck loves those big cals but the difference between him and most other ppl is he has shot those heavy cals his entire life(and he has been around for a long time LOL)where as most other ppl have not...something to think about...i shot a 300wm for several yrs and it was a tac driver...several guys i know that are pretty good shots shot that rifle and only 2 could shoot it to its accuracy level but all of them could accurately shoot my 260.
Well I'm getting closer, but not there yet. Hopefully somebody with a good ipod program will remind me. lol
I have questions however regarding guns and what we need or don't need for long range hunting.
I have my jeep rigged for the type hunting we do in the particular location we do it.
There are 3 long range guns, one being a 7x300 wby, a 30 cal wildcat that would be essentially a 300 Norma,
and a large 338. I also carry along a 25/06 or a 30/06 in case somebody (not me) needs to go finish one off.
Admittedly, the 7x300 could be a smaller cartridge but that's what I have. Where we hunt, you might be looking at
400 over there, but over there is 800, and over there could be 12 to 1500 all from the same location. And for those
just dying to ask why, forget spot and stalk because its not even a remote possibility there. Try hitting a gallon milk jug across one of those valleys in December with the wind blowing and you would soon get the picture.
No different than a serious bass fisherman having 6 rods rigged laying ready for different situations.
Or a golfer with a whole bunch of clubs just to hit a ball that's laying right in front of him.
We will shoot as well as the distance and conditions permit us, and if the conditions aren't good
that might not be very far especially with the smaller cartridges.
Our hunting season for rifle is for 2 weeks, and there are no cancelations for unfavorable conditions or being unprepared.
If your in an area like some parts of Wyoming for example, where you can spot an animal at a long
distance, then duck into a dry stream bed maybe 6 ft or more deep to close the distance that's a whole different situation than were faced with.
We shoot from here or we don't shoot at all, and those are the choices.
Pick your club and good luck. And yes they kick lol.
Heh, I was not fishing Bass....
Actually I'm testing my ability to learn how to post a picture, so work with me on this one, OK? Let's see if this works.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...psv7noqwps.jpg
Hmmm, that does not look like it will work, how about this.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjjm4xsm.jpg
Arrgghhh, I think I need to look at my account settings. I'll figure it out.
Heh, I was not Bass fishing....
Actually I'm testing my ability to learn how to post a picture, so be patient with me on this one, OK? Let's see if this works.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...psv7noqwps.jpg
Hmmm, that does not look like it will work, how about this.
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjjm4xsm.jpg
Arrgghhh, I think I need to look at my account settings. I'll figure it out.
How about this
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...psv7noqwps.jpg
http://i1077.photobucket.com/albums/...pszjjm4xsm.jpg
That might be it.
Global Warming?
Winnie, I'm sure your a really nice guy, but youve read too many books and not done enough shooting with these type guns.
Don't believe a word ive said and that's fine with me. But, if your really curious as to wether that old kook has lost all his marbles for making such outlandish statements, make a few phone calls and get your facts straight.
Ive known guys whove claimed 3600 fps, but they will also admitt to 1 firing from the brass.
My load wasent a particularly hot load at 113 gr of h570 with the 200 gr in a 36" barrel.
118 gr of the slower h870 or wc872 would put the bullets at the same location at the 1500 rock ledge we shoot at frequently.
145 to 150 1/4 min clicks on the dial should help you to at least roughly decipher the velocity. 200 clicks were needed at 1700 yds which is the furthest I ever shot the gun. AT that point, 240s were landing in the same place with same clicks. The gun was also really out of gas at that distance as for any kind of accuracy.
I don't know how much luck you will have getting these people to answer their phones, because if the machines are running they wont answer. And frankly, they are usually running and you can google them for the numbers.
Try Bruce Baer in Willow Hill PA, also Mark King in I believe Duncannon PA, and also Kevin Cram in Danville PA.
Kevin would be the youngest, but certainly as able as the others as for his work. But I'm not as sure as to his first hand experience with the 30x378. He is however a very experienced long range hunter as are the other 2, and might also be easier to contact.
For sure he as well as the others could set you straight as to what you believe are silly statements.
If your serious about shooting at extreme distances, you would have been wise to discuss your options with someone like one of these guys first, and hopefully you did. Otherwise it will be learning by trial and error and you will either give up on It, or ultimately seek out good advise from someone who does this for a living every day.
For starters, I have some doubt any of these guys would advise building any 338 on any Savage action.
So if your afraid you might hear that, be forewarned as to that possibility.
buck, I'm sure you're a nice guy as well, but none of what you posted has any relevance to what I said.
I've talked to plenty of guys (none that you listed, but others that are just as qualified) and done enough LR shooting myself... never hunting mind you, but shooting, and I stand by what I said.
There's no arguing that the 30-378 isn't a fast shooter, it obviously is. But my point was that, all things being equal (action, barrel & length, etc.), putting a 7mm bullet and a .30 cal bullet over the same amount of powder is going to net you the same results. The 7mm is going to be faster. That's not reading books, that's standard physics. I'm glad you know guys that have claimed 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. That's fantastic!
Now tell them to do the same thing with a 7mm and report the results. I'm not even arguing if a 7mm or a 30-378 is a better long range round. I'm saying if you're looking for a flatter shooting, faster round, the 7mm is going to take the cake. That's what research shows (and by extension, 'what the books say'), that's my personal experience, and I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's most people's opinions (you being the exception). Unfortunately, that's going to hold a lot more weight than you coming on a internet board and saying you know a guy that knows a guy that got 3,600 fps out of a 30-378. To be honest, I really couldn't care less. Classic case of being the exception and not the rule.
As far as the .338 Lapua goes, what does that have to do with anything? Honestly. Just because I decided to build one on a Savage action doesn't make it right, and just because seasoned gunsmiths 'would advise against building any .338 on a Savage action' doesn't make it wrong. But I'm failing to see what the point of even bringing that up was. I've got no dog in this fight, and am perfectly fine with differences of opinion, but some of you old school guys need to realize that there isn't just one way of doing things. And that's not a knock on you or anyone, it's simply personal preference.
This one has about run its (off) course.
For the OP. I've found personally that the 6.5 X 284 is somewhat finicky. Developing a load that will work may take some time, if your accuracy standards are at the same level as mine. Using 7 different powders and a slew of different bullets, we finally developed a load for ours, purely by accident. That accident occurred when bullet seating was done using a 6mm comparator insert instead of a 6.5. The bullet was seated deeper and it shot well. Very well. But after another 150 rounds we're now chasing the lands and moving the bullet out farther. Throat erosion is occurring and there's not much we can do about it. I'd imagine the 6.5/06 will be worse, and can confirm that the 6.5 WSM IS worse. We will be retooling for the 260 in the near future, and will do so on a long action, specifically throated for the 142 ABLR. The 6.5 creed was our second choice, but I fell on a good supply of new Lapua 260 brass. Want a little more than the 260? Go with the 6.5x55 and fresh Lapua brass, loaded to 2016 pressure levels. You'll be happy with either of the three for years.
My vote is for a 6.5x55 swede.
Relatively cheap lapua brass. Loaded at modern pressures. The swede will shoot to 1K or better with a 140gr at 2800 easy. Plenty of room on a long action mag to load those long pills way far out to the lands
So if we drop a ton of bricks and a ton of bs off a tall building, ones gonna hit the ground first? Let me guess which one lol.
Personal preference is fine and I have them just like everybody else does.
But choices are one thing and facts are another. How we get the facts are yet another thing which is a big part of the issue here.
You want be needing any facts being told to you to see whats the best car on the race track, assuming of coarse were judging by performance.
And if you would like to come visit me sometime you wont need any facts on these guns either, because again seeing will be believing.
As for there being other ways of doing things, that's really not true assuming again were talking performance.
We can of coarse alter how we do things to allow for our personal choices and performance.
As the old cliché goes, we cant have the cake and eat it too. If we want to shoot rifles at very long distances for what ever reason, certain rules
will apply unless your satisfied with less than the best results it might be possible to get. I am of coarse talking here about cartridge perfofmance
and not individual performance.