Hi all, I want to strenghten my tupperware stock and would like to ask what epoxy to use. I have never used epoxy before so I have no clue and I thought it would be best to ask here since it will be for my Axis' stock.
Thanks
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Hi all, I want to strenghten my tupperware stock and would like to ask what epoxy to use. I have never used epoxy before so I have no clue and I thought it would be best to ask here since it will be for my Axis' stock.
Thanks
Do a search on the past threads on this topic (fgw_in_fla was the primary source). I read them a while back and used JB Weld in the forestock and LePages two part epoxy in the magazine area and grip area.
I don't know, but I also don't think it really matters. JB weld is cheap and readily available.
I know there are kits with epoxy bedding material. I used to use PC-7 epoxy paste and it was hard and strong as iron when it set. The seller back then...years ago...had a glass old style pepsi bottle and glued to the side with PC-7 were 2 3/4" steel rod pieces about 4" long. The guy said he would help me balance and I stood on those pieces of rod glued to the bottle. I weighed about 200 back then. I just remembered the stuff and am betting it would be great for bedding. It is sandable, paintable and drillable. And it is a very dark gray color.Quote:
Originally Posted by savage2014
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...-keywords=pc+7
I used Acra Glass from Brownells when I did mine, but any 4:1 epoxy would do about the same. My most recent epoxy of choice has been Super Hard epoxy from TAP Plastics. If it's not the same stuff as Brownells', I'd be astonished.
I heated my epoxy until it became very free flowing and then added the hardener and mixed it together. I was able to pour it into the forearm and it poured like syrup from a jar. Within 10 minutes it was hard and the forearm was rock solid. If you use this method be careful as mine expanded slightly so use a little less and it will be perfect when finished. I also had to sand the barrel channel just slightly to open it up, took all of 5 minutes.
devcon 10110!!Quote:
Originally Posted by savage2014
Epoxy?
JB weld is what I use for most applications.
If you're not familiar with the use & application of epoxy don't get the quick set stuff. Get the regular and read the instruction 40 or 50 times.
Mix up 2 pea sized blobs and epoxy something together.
Rough surfaces are helpful. It needs something to grab on to. Gouge & scratch the inside of the stock. Try to remove the "shiny-ness" of it.
Last, read this:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...e-Easy-Take-II
After you read it, read it again. Look at the pictures. Then, read it once more.
If you have any questions, drop me a PM.
I'll do what I can to help.
Happy epoxy-ing.
PS - Acetone is good for clean up. After it hardens, hammer & chisel is need for clean up.
Have a nice day.
Thanks for the input everyone.
I have already prepped the stock, and i have already decided that I need at least a 30 minute setting time, not a 5 minute one, but I am still undecided which brand is the best for this application.
I removed the paint and drilled holes on every side, and created some channels on the intermediate and top middle ribs for the epoxy to run through and hopefully hold tight...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7351/...e4b593fc_c.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7281/...d59b485b_c.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7384/...0b444ea7_c.jpg
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8656/...c00fe401_c.jpg
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7421/...236fe230_c.jpg
I just scuffed up the inside of my stock with the dremel, I didn't drill any holes. Made sure the stock was level and poured it in and let it dry. It's in there solid and the stock won't flex when pressure is applied to it. Keep in mind that it does add some weight to the forend, so you might need to add some weight to the buttstock to keep it well balanced. There is a wide variety of epoxy out there, some is hard to work with and other stuff is very easy and mess free. Walmart had some stuff that was mixed as soon as it came out of the applicator and looked very easy to use.
djdilliodon on Rimfire Central sells a 2 part bedding I'm going to try as he says it shrinks less than anything else on the market.
THat's fine, but shrinkage is only a concern when bedding an action. (You want the epoxy to remain as tight to the action as possible so it is truly "bedded".Quote:
Originally Posted by flylo
When trying to stiffen up a flimsy stock that will have the barrel free floated, it doesn't really matter how much the epoxy shrinks. In fact, the more it shrinks, the better, as long as it doesn't pull away from the stock, and nothing shrinks that much. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Underdog
This is my problem now, though I am very happy with the rock solid forend, it is now heavy and unbalanced. I'm now looking for what to put on the buttstock. I tried to put a cup of uncooked rice in a plastic bag but the weight is not enough to counter the heavy fore end.
What do you guys suggest?
Thanks
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I want something like a putty that does not stick to the stock, so I can remove and put it back on...
Lead bird shot. Can add and remove as necessary till you get it right... THen fill with spray in expanding foam insulation from a can
+1 on the bird shot.
Bruce
Thanks.. will give it a try
no, not epoxy - use rockite to add both stiffness and weight to both the butt stock and forearm. it's the perfect answer that will transform tupperware stocks into stiff, functional stocks. i've not done this to an axis stock, but have to 3 ruger american stocks - it will work exactly the same for an axis stock.
http://i.imgur.com/woY6ssv.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/26WRU3f.jpg
you tube vid that lays it all out (i see no reason to bother with the painting part he does) ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suh0feCDaHA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWjujyMpnOI
The only Rockite I found online was Rockite concrete repair. Is this what you are referring to ?
yes ........ rockite is a very special concrete!
it works SO MUCH better than epoxy (been there, done that, hated it).
no way will i ever use any kinda epoxy to stiffen a plastic stock. rockite will set up inside of 15-30 minutes, too.
is it heavier than epoxy when dry?
typically, rockite will add more weight than epoxy. you can control this by adding one or two pvc tubes into the butt stock (see my pic, above) - this can drastically lighten the added rockite weight as far less is used. the butt tube(s) can be filled with lead shot (or whatever) to add weight, and if not packed in and allowed to move the shot/weights will add to recoil absorption.
Also if you were able to get those pipes in at about a 10 degree angle you could insert a Graco recoil reducer which would be nice as well. There have been a lot of people who wanted to put muzzle brakes on their Axis but it simply wasn't feasible with the amount of metal on the factory barrels. I would think by adding the additional 2 pounds or so along with the that it would significantly reduce the recoil. I need to try this mod one of these days.
been there and done that with a mercury recoil tube up the stock's butt, along with the rockite. it only made a very slight difference that wasn't worth the $50 or so for the merc tube.
just the rockite alone is the best $8 synthetic stock fix for two reasons - much added stiffness for the fore end, and the overall addition of weight mainly where it's needed most (the butt stock).
So with the added weight and the Graco tube you still only noticed slight difference in the recoil reduction?
i didn't notice any drastic reduction in recoil when i added the merc tube. functionally, just the added rockite weight did the trick for me with regards to helping tame recoil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosco
Concidering doing this to my rifle. Seems like a project I can handle. Did any of you guys put the rods in before the epoxy. If so what did you use? Not sure how I am going to do it yet or what in going to use
see the video links i posted - you put the pvc tubes in first, then the rockite. make sure to close off the inside tube ends so the goop doesn't fill 'em up. hold the tubes in place with tape so they don't float up or get out of alignment. use one or two tubes .... OR, don't bother using any tubes and fill 'er up with rockite. yer call, it's all good.
Great video. I want to shout a bipod on my rifle so I will need a sturdy stock
What is the difference ( if there is one) between putting epoxy in a stock and glass bedding a stock? I have read and heard about glass bedding but I'm not sure what it is or what it does?
two diff'rent things ...
you glass bed the action for consistency.
you glass bed or rockite the stock for stiffness, and perhaps to add mass weight.
Specifically, when glass bedding a rifle, the epoxy is slathered between the action and the stock. As rfd12fv says this creates the most perfect inletting possible, which goes toward consistent reassembly. In turn, this allows for consistent harmonics or something. Bedding can be done in pretty much any stock.
Putting epoxy in the stock is typically just a matter of filling the voids in an injection-molded stock. Whether it has much if any primary effect on accuracy, I don't know. Secondary effects from keeping the forearm from touching the barrel or balancing the rifle could be beneficial though.
what the good doc sez.
bedding is all about consistency of the mating of the action and stock.
plastic stocks with lotsa nooks 'n' crannies get stiffened by adding anything that will both adhere and harden. this is not about adding weight, but about strengthening/stiffening the fore arm, and to some degree the stock itself, particularly in the wrist area. since learning about rockite (literally, it's a special form of cement) i'd never waste the money on epoxy for stock stiffening as rockite is cheaper, better and adds much needed weight. ymmv.
Well, yes and no to all of the above, in some respects, its a matter of semantics.
Technically speaking, "glass bedding" refers to using FIBERGLASS to bed the action and/or barrel channel. Years ago when gunsmiths first started to free-float barrels of wood stocks, they would add fiberglass to the opened-up barrel channels so as to prevent the wood from swelling and touching the barrels. I believe they would make the "gap" between barrel and stock minimal and it was almost considered an art form to make it ever so slim of a gap. Today, almost no one bothers with that, but, rather, opens the barrel channel and seals the wood with wood sealant or epoxy, but the effort is rarely made to actually bed the channels with fiberglass.
Epoxy is used to bed the stock to the action so there is a perfect match of the two surfaces. Also, the epoxy is used to prevent the stock from swelling and contracting, changing the mating surface of the two.
When people say "Glass bedding" today, they are using an old term that came from the practice of using fiberglass, now epoxies are used because it is many times easier and more durable.
A better term would simply be "bedding" an action, which means you are making a perfect match of the surfaces between the action and the stock. It is assumed you use epoxy for this. THe epoxy acts as a stong, inflexible and solid surface that does not swell or contract under different environmental conditions. Without it, you tend to get pressure points and binding that stresses the action and changes with the weather. Along with that, most people will also "pillar" their action screws. "pillaring" is a different concept, but most often done at the same time. "Pillaring" means you add hollowed-out pillars of metal to the action screw holes so the action screws are prevented from crushing the stock material under torque. The inside diameter of the pillars should be greater than the outside dimensions of the action screws, and the screws should be centered inside the pillars so they do not strike the insides of the pillars under recoil, but rather, are like a free-floated barrel in its channel.
Filling hollow stocks with cement or lead or epoxy, etc, is just that that... it depends upon what you are trying to achieve. If you stiffen a flimsy stock, good. If you need/want to add weight, good. Do /use whatever material you like or have available or whatever. Sounds to me like this cement stuff may be a good quick fix to making a hollow-feeling, flimsy plastic stock better.
Interesting! I never knew about the fiberglass aspect of it. I thought it might have referred to that chopped glass floc that Brownells includes in their AcraGlas kits.
It might, Doc. But I know they used to lay strands/layers of fiberglass into the material as they bedded the barrel channel. They'd put down a thin layer of epoxy or something, then add fiberglass, then add another layer of epoxy, then add more fiberglass, etc. It was a slow process. I think today's better epoxies that incorporate steal and/or fiberglass into the mix simply means its not necessary to layer it anymore.
"Glass bedding" sounds better. More impressive, to me, because it harkens-back to the old days, suggesting more effort and skill went into the project.
But, in my mind, in reality, it's over glamourizing what we do today.
Hi please can someone tell me
what material is the savage 16 synthetic stocks made from
I'm not 100% sure, but I am more than 75% sure it's injection molded, fiberglass reinforced nylon.
Thats why epoxy will not stick
going to make a bigger p grip
what is the best epoxy to put on
my pistol grip
got a synthetic factory stock