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Can a small shank barrel handle the more mag calibers. I think I asked this once but?? I am looking at building a 338-378 on a savage. If you google 338-378 savage, you will find a gun called a Wrath of God. Does anyone here have a reason that I cant use a small shank for this caliber..
thanks
nathan
A question posed on many an occasion.....so I did the math considering the UNF thread geometry. The last 3 columns provide effective sidewall 'meat' for the corresponding family of cartidges. Interesting to note that the Savage standard barrel thread root diameter is greater ;D than the larger diameter Rem/Wby barrel as a result of the finer (shallower) Savage thread pith;
Barrel dia" OD(mm) root '08/'-06 Mag WBY
Sav Std. 1.055 26.797 25.239 6.639 6.104 5.229
Sav wsm 1.125 28.575 27.017 7.528 6.993 6.118
Rem/WBY 1.0625 26.9875 25.040 6.540 6.005 5.130
You can read from this that theoretically a wby magnum in a STANDARD savage barrel leaves more steel around the cartridge (note this disregards action thickness) than a Weatherby MarkV in 378 family chambering.
Defoxer
you can probably do it, the bolt head needs to be opened up too. I build a lot of RUM barrels on small shanks though.
Might consider buying a NEW bolthead from Savage. Understand they are manufactured differently.
I would HIGHLY recommend getting the action trued/timed....or...at the very least, lapping the lugs until you are in the 95-100% contact of lugs to receiver.
I am thinking that I am going to be in the market for one of these. Currently I have a Sako M-995 with a PacNor 32" Palma that is 30-378, but I am worried about all the gunsmithing it will take when the throat is melted and gun. With a Savage I could have it shortened an inch and rechambered for way cheaper. And then reheadspace and go again. I am thinking 338-378, but the 338 ultra mag isnt giving up alot in ballistics and the brass is a little cheaper. I have been seeing all the 338 edge stuff on here, however I would either want to go all the way, 338-378 - 338 lapua or stay with a caliber that dosent need a bunch of work. In that case I would go with the 338 ultra mag.
Not sure which way to go yet.
The guys on here will beat you unless you make it a 338 EDGE. LOL. You could do worse though, in the size range you are looking at, it would make sense. Not to mention considerably less money that some of the hand cannons you mention.
I got on reloadersnest.com and was looking at the velocities of the 338 ultra vs the 338 edge and there is not a clear winner. I am sure the 338 edge is a little faster but I can not see it in the velocities posted. If you add in a 338-378, we increase the volocity by roughly 200 fps. This is where I am torn, 338 ultra is cheaper & easier while the 338-378 is faster and better. Not sure still
If you want 26 - 28" Barrel + brake... go RUM
If you want 30" Barrel + Brake, go EDGE !
If you want Horrible Barrel Life, Go .338-378
Love that picture Ace, I can never look at it without LOL.
Just curios, is this for an Africa or Alaska trip, or is it a case of "I just have to have one". Thats why I have a .35 Whelen, I just wanted one. But now that I have it it is one of my favorite deer rifles. Overkill for sure but bang flop is what I like. Have you thought of maybe a .338-.375 Ruger? Friend of mne uses a .375 Ruger in Africa and loves it.
El Lobo
In a 338 I would head towrads the RUM;
-Near standard Magnum Rim size will fit without mods.
-H&H Magnum OAL 91.44mm will fit Savage LA - 338LM possibly need mods to fit (93.5mm)
-brass standard size no forming (edge)
-few fps will probably not mean that much down range / recipient wont tell the difference...
D
I hunt elk and long range deer with a 30-378 and I thought it would be fun to have a 338-378 also. So I would class it as "I just want to" type of a rifle. But I have been more warmed up to the 338 ultra. For the same reason defoxer said. It is a lot easier, only problem is I dont have quiet the wow factor..
for edge brass you just run it through a fl sizer and your set, no more fireforming to that than an ultra. And with the edge you dont have to use only remington brass, nosler makes great brass for the edge too.
It probably can be done on a standard shank barrel. But if it were me, just to be on the safe side I would have my action opened up and re-threaded to the large shank size and then have a large shank barrel made for it to have a little extra meat around the chamber. The Weatherby shank may be smaller than the savage large shank but it is a shouldered barrel. For me the large shank is the way to go as it will handle the larger cartridges with a larger safety margin. But that's just my opinion.
If you open up the ring and rethread you're just taking steel away from the ring and effectively transferring to the barrel to end up with the same overall thickness and amount of steel around the chamber. The ring and barrel will act in unison to provide strength. Large and small shank use the same diameter action as I understand therefore the overall thickness of barrel+action would be equal. The large shank barrel will however be more rigid and resistive to flex/vibration provided the contour is not turned down after the nut (the step). As a side note - a Mauser LR barrel at 1.1" 12tpi whitworth ends up with damn near exactly the same effective barrel diam as a SR Sav @1.055@20tpiUNF. Interesting.
D
You are corret defoxer. However, it's not true for the part of the chamber that is in front of the receiver ring which is what concerns me. Therefore, the large shank provides a greater margin of strength for that portion in front of the receiver. Like I said, it can be done on the small shank, I just wouldn't do it myself. Now if you're going with a conventional shouldered barrel then it really doesn't matter. But if you're using the barrel nut the large shank provides thicker chamber walls for that portion outside the receiver which makes me feel better. To each their own.
I have several Weatherby cases/calibers on my target actions. With barrel nuts (spanner)that are long and the O.D. the same as the actions 1.340 I feel completely within the safety limits.
I also have several Rum based offerings on both large and small shanks and have had zero problems. I can honestly say that unless you go to a longer barrel so you can use all of the powder in the Weatherby case, you will not beat the 338 Edge velocity using H4831 powder.
I love my Edge (handgun) and consider it the best thing I have ever done when I chambered it in my handguns. (3)
Neal
Good to see you back, Neil. How's the ticker doing?
Ticking! Doing very well Fred- Keeps going the way it is I will see you and your lovely wife at the Varmint Jamboree!
Neal
Edge for an Edge (if the actions are long enough) ;)
efm77, that's right about the chamber/barrel ahead of the ring, thats why I mentioned the 'step' ahead of the nut and avoiding it to maintain the strength and advantage of the LR. Honestly, if the WBY super mags hold together in a barrel/action combo that is smaller than the Sav SR (up to the front ring) then you will probably be safe with either Sav. The LR will allow a heavier contour from/thruough the nut. I will be screwing a 358STA barrel onto a 116; Down under the Sambar are a tad more receptive to a slightly bigger projie ;D....
I will need a mag base and frame to go from blind - DBM for both staggered & centrefeed LA whats the best/cheapest source?
Slightly OT, but good to hear the ticker going well 'hammer..
D
Yeah I think it can be done. I myself just like the large shank for the bigger cases. Just makes me feel better. But You're right about the Weatherby's. If they don't have any trouble out of theirs it's probably ok in the Savage as well. With it's smaller threads it's probably a tad stronger anyway. But since part of the chamber extends beyond the receiver ring I like the large shank better, just personal preference. Now as I said, with a shouldered barrel it makes no difference. But I wanted to keep the barrel nut on mine so I went with the large shank to have thicker chamber walls and also a heavier barrel. The large shank Savage barrel is almost as big as the diameter of the shoulder on a conventional barrel. There's only about 1/8" difference so I'd say it's plenty strong especially since Savage is using it to build the 338 Lapua's which is probably close to the size of the 378 Weatherby case. Remington also hasn't had any trouble with their ultra mags and their shank is roughly the same size as the Savage small shank but with more course threads making the root of it a little thinner yet. Now the Remington uses a shouldered barrel but there's something I've thought about. Part of the small shank is exposed on the Remington under the recoil lug. That part's not under the receiver ring and the recoil lug won't be strong enough to add any additional strength to the barrel shank. So if a Remington were going to let go I think that would be it's weakest point. Same for a Savage too and I also don't think the barrel nut would be strong enough to add any additional strength which again is why I like the larger shank. Sorry to ramble on, just thinking out loud more or less. As you have said it can and has been done and I haven't heard of any mishaps with the small shank when using the nut or with a conventional shoulder. I just like the extra meat around the chamber on the large shank with the portion that is in front of the receiver ring. Good luck with your 358STA, I've always liked 35's myself.
Actually, it's not "a," it's "The"... as in "The Wrath of God." There's just one, and it's mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclabuyer
The barrel is a #9 contour from Douglas and the action was opened accordingly. The bolt head (the gun was originally a .300 Winchester Magnum) was opened on a lathe and the extractor was modified appropriately.
Just one?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper308
Look a few post up where Neal said he's done it on a Savage action pistol. ;D
I was referring to that specific rifle and the name I gave the rifle. I'm not disputing anyone else's ability to chamber a Savage for .338-378 Weatherby Magnum.Quote:
Originally Posted by geargrinder
the 338 Rum and the 338 edge cost about the same used std action and bolt head brass is cheap if u want it
338 edge is faster than 338 lapua which uses custom bolt head and brass is pricey
the weatherby is that a weatherby its faster and cost more brass is pricey and is belted case
dies for the rum and edge use the same just add a 300 rum body die opened up for the edge
dies will be availbe for all with small difference in price over all
barrel cost same for all
factory ammo is avalible for rum and lapua its pricey
i believe the the edge and rum cost the same overall if want factory ammo go rum
if want the fastest weatherby
want great brass and factory tactical rifle go lapua
all are good rounds get what u want
I too am considering this same build with a 338 Edge on a single shot action. And there is all this talk about "meat on the barrel/actions" etc... I was looking more at the bolt head, is it up to the task of taking that much punishment. I don't know enough about this so this is purely a question. What are the chances of bolt lugs and/or the lugs they mate into in the action failing. I would be more worried about a kaboom coming backwards towards me than a barrel coming apart. I have seen the aftermath of that happening on a custom build 50 BMG.
Both scenarios would be an ordeal to go through but steel going sideways would be much better than steel coming back across my face, neck and shoulder.
As a general statement I don't believe this, on a rifle by rifle basis maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by mopar440
The Weatherby is capable of going faster, it has the capacity, but in a comparison with equal brass life probably not by much.
As you think and move into the purchase stage maybe one can evaluate or simplify things by putting the 300WSM into the mix.
The 300 WSM runs at the same pressures as the 300 RUM. The Edge uses the 300 RUM case. Though I am not running even near 65,000 pounds of pressure in my Edge I could as both the WSM and RUM cases were designed to function at higher pressures.
I might add for safety reasons that I would want a 4-5 inch tenon area on the breach end of the RUM barrel. One can safely get along with a good inch shorter tenon area with the WSM cases.
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForu...6.new.html#new
Neal
"I might add for safety reasons that I would want a 4-5 inch tenon area on the breach end of the RUM barrel. One can safely get along with a good inch shorter tenon area with the WSM cases."
Pardon my ignorance. What exactly do you mean by tenon area?
The threaded end of the barrel is what I am referring too. Leave the barrel at it's max thickness for the afore mentioned distance to handle the cartridge pressure before contouring down to the muzzle thickness.
Neal
I see. In other words keep the barrel contour the size of the threaded shank for several inches before turning down to a smaller profile?