What is the best F-class cartridge for a beginner ?
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What is the best F-class cartridge for a beginner ?
F open 1k yardQuote:
Originally Posted by Hammer
284 Winchester.
I would also shoot 6x47 Lapua
FTR >500 308, <300. 223
What missed said....i shoot a plan jane 260 in F-open and do well.
The 284 is great. I have been seeing its brother the 7mm Shehane kick but at 1000 though.
Anything but a .308, .223 or .260.
Watched a guy put 6 out of 10rds on a 2 foot by 3 foot silhouette at a mile with a 7 SAUM slinging 180gr bergers.
I imagine it would hold great at 1000.
Why not a 260?Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
Do you have access to reloading equipment? If you have to buy factory, than many calibers that have been suggested are going to be out. The 308 is going to be the easiest to get quality ammunition for that will perform at long range. Going down from that, the 300 Win Mag or the 7mm rem mag can both perform at long range, however, in most stores, you will be limited to hunting rounds. Further down from that, you can look at the heavier bullets for the 7mm-08 or the 243 winchester.
If you have a larger store that you can buy ammunition for, then I would look at the 6.5 creedmore. The more exotic the cartridge, the harder ammunition will be to find for it.
Remember...This is Hammer. It's all about fun.
Don't quickly dismiss the .233 as a calibre for the first or learning shooter.
12 months ago my son was a beginner shooter using a new Savage Model 12 .223 1:7 twist 26" barrel.
He's shot with this rifle out to 900 yards, 1000 in lighter wind, in FTR competition, competitive with 308s.
With no noticeable recoil he's been able to concentrate on technique.
It's a cheaper calibre to load and reload for, using less powder and an less expensive projectile.
.233 can be an effective learning calibre for the novice or younger shooter.
for me its 308 in ftr and 6.5 creedmoor in f open wife shoots 223 in ftr out to 600 wife good results
The Shehane is very good in open, all the saum rifles o have seen they shoot them at a couple matches then change calibers. Seems like getting them tuned to shrink groups is tough. I love the 308 in FTR, I shoot 155 hybrids at 500 and shorter, and the 185 hybrids for the longer.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
Would think the 22-6mm and the 6mm/06 Mashburn would get more support.
Both will help their bullets get to the thousand yard line.
It depends on how much recoil you want to put up with. Brass availablility and component costs might be something to consider. One of my fellow shooters shoots a 223 7 twist 80 gr Bergers (Savage LRPV Action) and is incredible at 1000 yds in light wind. 6Brx, 6XC, 7mm 08, 284, 6.5 Creedmore, 260. I built a 260 because Brass is easy to find, I'm now working on a 6 BR and will also probably build a 6BRX. I have really thought a lot about the 22-6mm and may do that sometime later.
Don't overlook a tight-twist .243 Win and good reloads with heavy bullets.
I don't shoot F Class, but I'm currently running a 7 twist 243Win, 105 Berger Hybrids, 41.5hrs of H4350, CCI 200 primers, in hornady brass. I've also shot the 115DTACs with a similar load. This has been the best all around 15-1200yds target gun for the competitions I shoot. Best group to date was 1.438" at 415yds. It will run, but barrel life will be a bit shorter.Quote:
Originally Posted by JASmith
At 600 yards I like the .223 Rem.
At 1000 I like the .260 Rem.
I'll throw in a vote for 6x47Lapua, since I'm selling a barrel in that caliber. ;-) I've shot 6mm Creedmoor before, and it's a laser, so 6x47L should be awesome at 600y matches.
1st choice: .308 Win (of course ;) )
2nd choice: .284 for LR (800-1k) / 6mm BR/BRX/Dasher for MR (600 & in)
Runner-up: 6 Dasher for both MR & LR, *if* it's not too windy.
I, along with all the responders to date, have fallen prey to the fault of 'reading into' the OP things that aren't there.
For example, we all seem to have assumed that the 'beginner' was already a reasonably competent shot wanting to move into the F-Class game.
Equally valid is the assumption that the 'beginner' is fairly new to competitve shooting. It is also possible that the beginner is completely new to shooting.
Either of the alternative definitions of 'beginner' might lead to the recommendation that he go with the 75 or 77 grain .223 Rem commercial match cartridges and a rifle with an appropriate twist.
These cartridges produce trajectories close to those seen by .308 Win match ammo but have greater wind drift. The very light recoil would allow him or her to perfect skills for position, trigger control, and wind doping. The large wind drift could also be seen as an advantage for the learner because mistakes will be easier to spot and successes more rewarding.
Moving from there to the measurably more capable 6mm and 6.5 mm cartridges known to be serious F-Class cartridges and apply those skills with the major new challenge being recoil management.
Recoil management on 6mm BR / BRX / Dasher in a 22 lb rifle is pretty much nil...
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Actually... at a recent event (Northern Rockies F-Class Tournament outside Missoula, MT) there was a gaggle of Army Guard shooters running the new(ish) XM2010 sniper rifles - .300WM, suppressed, with a big Leupold scope (3-18x?) as the match director provided a dedicated class just for them to compete in (MT vs. All-Guard, mostly out of Arkansas, if I understood correctly). Anywho, what was surprising was when I looked up the numbers for the Mk248 Mod 0 ammo they were running... a Sierra 190gn MatchKing @ ~2950fps. I think they had a shorter barrel (22") than that velocity was cited for, but I've heard the can sometimes adds some back, so itQuote:
Originally Posted by XL105
The relevant bit is their .300WM sniper load is barely equal, or slightly behind the wind drift performance of current F/TR .308 Win loads in common use: a Berger 185gn Juggernaut @ 2750fps or a Berger 200gn Hybrid @ 2660fps. My, how times have changed... ;)
If they were running 30" barrels they'd be slightly ahead for F-Class distances. 30" barrels don't work in urban terrain though.
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Yobuck is a f in idiot
I agree, an un-braked .300WM would be fairly miserable to shoot, unless you had it set up to run right up to the F-Open weight limit. In this case (special class), they were running cans, which functioned as reasonably effective muzzle brakes.Quote:
Originally Posted by XL105
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf
I watched about the same thing. 8 out of 12 shots on a 2x3 steel at 2018 yards, he was shooting an XP pistol in 7mm Dakota. Got the pictures with about 10 of us watching.
I hope the original poster was able to go with heavy bullets in .223 and learn the basics of F-Class.
He would then have a better feel for whether a .243 with heavy bullets, a Creedmoor, or one the portable cannons would work for him.
Would a fast twist 22/250 be better than the 223 ?
If you decide on that, then have it throated for the 80-90gr VLDs. On the other hand if you're going to go that route then you might as well go to a 6mm variant.
6mm-250 AI
I'd go 6XC which was based of the 250 case, but has Norma Brass readily available.
It will catapult you out of F-TR and into F-Open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer
A .223 running 80s (or 90s)is at a performance disadvantage in the wind. Whether a .22-250 running the same bullet a few hundred fps faster is going to be @ any less of a disadvantage against a 6.5 or 7mm...
He asked about an F-class cartridge not F/TR. The XC was the cartridge I was talking about but the dasher is where its at for me. Or 6SLR
The heavy-bullet 22-250 would indeed do somewhat better than the .223 but the reason for considering the caliber is that the .223 produces little recoil and muzzle blast. Further, very accurate off-the shelf AR and bolt action rifles are available at reasonable costs.
That, combined with a vast array of ammunition choices, some of which yield trajectories close to that of the now-classic .308 Winchester, means that one can start in the competition and learn enough of the basics to have a better chance of selecting a caliber that is right for him or her.
If one is to build a custom rifle for F-Class as a starter rifle, then it should be at least 6mm or 6.5 mm. Even then, the rifle may soon be shelved for one closer to a fit to that person' interests.
F-Class or F-TR it really doesn't matter as long as you pick a caliber that is legal in whatever type of competition you want to try to undertake. What really matters is can you shoot it consistently. Most calibers mentioned will work and there are others also but if you can't read the wind or a little recoil causes you to flinch then the caliber choice is very important and very individual. You also need to reload to take full advantage of what the rifle is capable of. If you don't reload the caliber choice diminishes dramatically. Distances you wish to shoot also play a part in the choice. So the best caliber for F-Class is the one you can shoot the best that is legal in a gun that stays inside the weight requirements for the sport.