What Powder to push 175gr SMK for 308?

Just doing a little research as I intend to start reloading on the low end first. Think I'm going to pick up the $27 Lee Classic reloading kit on midway to play with some hand loads before investing in a table top setup.

I had good luck with the ASYM match ammo loaded with the 175 SMKs so I figured I'd start with them. They were very consistent out to the max distance (890yds) offer at the local range I go to.

I see you can adjust seating depth, but I'm not sure how it measures the powder other than one level scoop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-tzaULt1rs

Anyone use this set?

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What powder? Many, Many, including myself do very well in 308 with Varget.

A word of advice for a beginner reloader.........Before you start spending money, ask yourself,.........Am I serious about reloading? If yes, then be smart and buy the "Best quality equipment that you can afford" Even if you have to "stretch a little", it will be cheaper down the road over buying twice. How do I know???? Yeah, you can figure.

If you want quality, "consistent", again, "consistent", ammo. I doubt you'll get it with the system in the video. (To put it mildly)

Let us know your intended application, and what your expectations are. I'm sure you will get good advise here.

kd.

looking to get a good consistent load for work in between 0-1000.

I have only used factory ammo in my rifle to date:

Atomic Nosler Custom Comp. 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds - loses consistency passed 650yds
Nosler Custom Comps 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds- loses consistency passed 650yds
Hornady Match 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds- loses consistency passed 650yds
FGMM 175gr - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds - didn't test them at range as I was given 4 to see how they worked in my rifle.
ASYM Match ammo 175gr SMK - Sub half inch @ 100yds - zeroed in on the 890yds gong and went 8 for 8 with an obvious group on the plate.

Looking to get loads up to the same level as the ASYM factory loads. I shoot long range (890yds max at the local range) steel matches for now and will be looking into other work down the road.

Was thinking about doing the kit above with a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.

I would really only be doing small batches as the comps are only 40 rounds and the 308 is probably all I'll own for awhile. This kit would also be good as I could reload at the range on the spot if I wanted to.

I like varget for the 168s/175 smks....how much will be determined by your rifle after load testing.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

Was thinking about doing the kit above with a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.

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If you're that tight on a budget, I'd suggest skipping the Lee powder measure and buy a good scale. Powder measures can be good or bad. It depends on the powder being used. For example, I get my best 308 results with Varget, but it doesn't meter worth squat. MR2000 meters very consistent from a powder measure, but shoots like poop in my rifle. You can use a scale accurately and consistently with any powder.

I read that 168's loose stability beyond 600yds. Fact? you decide. I did a little better with 155smks over the 175s but the 175s do well for many. I got away from 168 for the same reason your experiencing.

I share your passion for 1000yd shooting. I regularly shoot 500yd matches, and have shot in one 1000yd silhouette match.

Looking at your profile, and some of your post, leads me to ask 2 questions. Would you expect good results building a rifle with the lowest cost methods, and parts available? Or good results trying to shoot 1000yds with optics made by Tasco bought off the rack at Wal Mart?

Reloading for the accuracy you require is like shooting at the ranges your shooting. It takes quality equipment,(think about what went into your builds) and a skilled reloader. (think about the skill level of the group of shooters you include yourself with at the range)

Not that you can't do it cheap, and unskilled, but will you be successful?

Do you have someone you know, or one of the guys you've met at one of your matches who hand loads that you could ask advise? Most I've known in this sport are willing to bend over backwards to share and show what they know, especially to a beginner. There is a big difference between the guy who is only loading for 2 week deer season or to save money. Folks like us on the other hand aren't really called "reloaders", we are "hand loaders". The goal is consistent accuracy. If you cannot afford the equipment necessary, You'll be further ahead to continue to buy quality loaded ammo. Nothing wrong with that.

My advise, at least start with something like this, I doubt you'll regret it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937...tage-press-kit

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/749...tage-press-kit

I started with the Hornady and still use the press.
The RCBS is more popular I believe.

Ask and research what the folks are using to do what you are trying to do. Anyone can reload, but not anyone is doing what you're doing.
Hope this is helpful, I'm trying not to go on and on.

kd

For 175SMK I started with Varget and got good results to 1000 yd, but it developed pressure problems when the weather started to warm up; and this is supposed to be a less temperature sensitive powder. Due to the supply crunch I switched to RL15 (I have been told this is what is used for Fed Match); based on Quick Load results it also should give the same velocity with less max pressure. It has shot fine to 1000 as well. To get your desired results from loading, esp for 1000 yd, you will need to measure within 0.1 grain powder to develop and maintain a decent load. The Lee Perfect Powder measure at $29 works great, and you will also need a decent balance beam to weigh and trickle powder to the 0.1 gr. If you do a little research you will find this degree of accuracy is essential, not to mention the safety aspects.

Using weight, I never could make MOA at 1,000 yards. Since flipping the bird to scales and only using my PPM I can easily do it. I've recently made the 5-shots at a mile club.
My favorite powder for the 175SMK at distance is Win 748, but have recently been happy with tests using CFE. Just loaded another 600 rounds the other day, used 748.

175 Berger's or SMK's kissing or off the lands up to .005 with 42.5 Varget, CCI LR primers seem to do the trick for me. 10 twist.

ALWAYS START LOW AND WORK UP TO 42.5.

Believe it or not, 190 VLD's .005 off the lands works pretty good as well.

Dennis

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ASYM Match ammo 175gr SMK - Sub half inch @ 100yds - zeroed in on the 890yds gong and went 8 for 8 with an obvious group on the plate.

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42.5 RL15 w/Fed primers, coal set as per Lyman's reloading book should do the trick, 175 BTHP smk's.

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Originally Posted by Dennis

42.5 RL15 w/Fed primers, coal set as per Lyman's reloading book should do the trick, 175 BTHP smk's.

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Thank you sir!

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Lone wolf. You have a pm coming in a few seconds.

I settled for some Winchester 760 due to availability. I'm still working up a good load for my Nosler Custom Competition 175 grain hpbt match bullets, but 46 grains of W760 is a nice starting point.

I'm shooting a Model 11 Hog Hunter with a 10" twist.

Check this out
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

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Originally Posted by mag41vance

Check this out
http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

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I saw one load using 46.0 grains of Varget with 175's on this site.

I have used 44.9 grns with 155's but have never used over 43.5 with any other bullets. On every 308 I have pressure signs start showing around 43.6 grns.

43.9 is where I stopped on anything over 155's

I've had good results with IMR 4064 for my heftier (150<) 308 loads--it has the advantage that you can actually find it in some stores--unlike varget or RL15. : )

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Originally Posted by Dennis

I saw one load using 46.0 grains of Varget with 175's on this site.

I have used 44.9 grns with 155's but have never used over 43.5 with any other bullets. On every 308 I have pressure signs start showing around 43.6 grns.

43.9 is where I stopped on anything over 155's

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My Pet Load for my Sniper Platform is 155 Nosler CC, Lapua brass ,CCIbr2, 46gr Varget touching the lands.
shoots .850" @ 200yds

Varget is still too hard to find. I've gone completely to Alliant's Power Pro MR2000. It is consistently 80-120 FPS faster than Varget and even RE15. It's a couple of bucks cheaper a lb and easier to find...at least for me. In .308, 22-250 and 5.56 it has done everything for me Varget has done. My .308 load is 47g of MR2000 under the 175g SMK or 178Amax with a CCI primer in Lapua or LC brass. I'm getting 2600 out of my 20" barrels and 2750 out of my 26. Sub MOA all the way out to 1K.

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Originally Posted by Rifleshooter308

Varget is still too hard to find. I've gone completely to Alliant's Power Pro MR2000. It is consistently 80-120 FPS faster than Varget and even RE15. It's a couple of bucks cheaper a lb and easier to find...at least for me. In .308, 22-250 and 5.56 it has done everything for me Varget has done. My .308 load is 47g of MR2000 under the 175g SMK or 178Amax with a CCI primer in Lapua or LC brass. I'm getting 2600 out of my 20" barrels and 2750 out of my 26. Sub MOA all the way out to 1K.

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This is good info. Any pressure signs coming from that hot of a load?

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None. I think I could go several more but there is no need to. 47 is the max load on the Alliant site and you know how conservative they are. I did my work up from 45 to 48 with 47 being the most accurate in my 26. It does will in my 20 so this is what I went with although 46 was a bit more accurate in the shorter barrel. You would think it is hot due to the volume but it's really not. PP is a flattened scherical ball powder. 47g is about 97% case volume with the 175SMK. You can go to 49 before any kind of compression. Your typical 45g Varget load has so much air volume due to the kernals. On another note I have found no temp sensitivity to worried about...at least from 30 degrees to 90 degrees. About 1fps per degree on my Magnetospeed.

2000MR loves it in the hot side. I use it too with my 175gr SMK, with Lapua cases.

My load is 47.5gr under 175grvSMK, Lapua case, and CCI250.

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Originally Posted by Rifleshooter308

None. I think I could go several more but there is no need to. 47 is the max load on the Alliant site and you know how conservative they are. I did my work up from 45 to 48 with 47 being the most accurate in my 26. It does will in my 20 so this is what I went with although 46 was a bit more accurate in the shorter barrel. You would think it is hot due to the volume but it's really not. PP is a flattened scherical ball powder. 47g is about 97% case volume with the 175SMK. You can go to 49 before any kind of compression. Your typical 45g Varget load has so much air volume due to the kernals. On another note I have found no temp sensitivity to worried about...at least from 30 degrees to 90 degrees. About 1fps per degree on my Magnetospeed.

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In one of my manuals, I show a max of 47.7 for 2000MR for the 175gr. That's why I worked up to 47.5. It was by far my best load.

The way I understand it is that every gun has it's own "magic" recipe. You just need to start playing around with powders and all the other factors and see what's best for you. Don't go cheap on your reloading equipment. Go with the best stuff that fits ur budget. Varget works extremely well for me in my .308 and it is also very hard to get in my area so I'm thinking that it works well for a lot of people.

My #1 powder for .308 Win is RL-15 (30" CBI barrel). Varget is #2, and I recently picked up some CFE that I'd like to try.

LoneWolf,

Let me explain, in detail, just how bad the Lee stuff is:
1. I started with an older Ohaus powder scale, when I got back into the hobby, three years ago. Had accuracy problems with the scale. I bought the Lee scale, several months ago and its as good as the RCBS 5-05 and 10-10 scales, I used years ago.
2. Again, I started with an older Lyman powder measure. Is as good as any other powder measure. Then, I bought the Lee dipper kit. If I'm loading a charge, which corresponds to one of the dippers, say 2.8 cc, its faster - way faster - for me than using a measure. There's a technique to it - with a business card or similar - and I can get it dead on 4 out of 5 times. Now, I weigh every charge since my goal is precision accuracy. When using a measure; I use the Lee Perfect Powder Measure. As with the dippers - the measure numbers are calibrated in cc's.....which gives you a built in way of self-checking your powder scale's accuracy (knowing what X cc corresponds to Y grns).
3. I also used to use the Lee Collet Dies, which are excellent if you want to neck size. After various measurements and experimentation I've gone to FL sizing and have settled on Forster and/or Redding dies.
4. My priming tool is the Lee primer.

So, stay away from the Lee stuff, its junk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I like my LEE stuff ! ;-)

I have lee stuff as well. My favorite Lee product is a Lee classic cast single stage press. For all of the Lee users out there...., exactly what products are you using, what kind of shooting are you doing(Hunting, BR, F/Class Tactical etc...), at what ranges. What are your expectations of your ammo, How well does it live up to them.

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Originally Posted by stangfish

I have lee stuff as well. My favorite Lee product is a Lee classic cast single stage press. For all of the Lee users out there...., exactly what products are you using, what kind of shooting are you doing(Hunting, BR, F/Class Tactical etc...), at what ranges. What are your expectations of your ammo, How well does it live up to them.

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I have Lee dies, press, case trimming, priming.

I am mostly a target shooter but some varmint hunting. I cant complain. I have had multiple .25 moa groups out of my 308 shot it out to 1000 yards also and was sub 0.5 moa. I bet in the F or BR using something like the LE wilson micro seater and arbor press I could get some better consistency which I think I will go to eventually but for now I can't complain. I out shot a guy at the range a few weeks back that was shooting a surgeon and uses the LE wilson and every other high dollar piece of gear.

My biggest complaint on some of there stuff is the cheaper construction. The tray lid on the priming tool likes to pop up every once and a while. I wish I could get a mic for the seater dies, and have a nicer powder measure mine is very consistent just want a better feel. All the stuff works its just the feel. The breech lock press is nice also.

I'm still only beginner--been hand-loading for a couple of years now. My Lee kit--which cost just over $100.00--is still going strong producing loads that are more consistently accurate than anything I can buy off the GS shelf. I only shoot out to max 250 yds--most of the time 100. Maybe one day when I start going longer ranges I'll think about more expensive gear, but for now it gets the job done at an entry-level price that I think is a bargain. It does have components that appear to be cheesy and it is a bit slow--but for someone looking to get their foot in the door with a good learner package at an easy-to-digest price (leaving money left-over for bullets, powder and dies) IMO it is the way to go. More expensive dies can fit into the press too.

Two items of discussion...one being components the other being equipment.

On the components side...I have had better luck with 165g bullets in my 10 FLCP-K pushed with IMR-4895 and a Fed 210M primer...

Equipment...I have several (more than 5) of the Lee Loaders described and gave up on them long ago. Several others have mentioned this, I will just reinforce it. If you want to shoot out to 1000 yards than you need to invest in the appropriate reloading euiptment (tight tolerances are the keep to consistency and accuracy). The old saying...but once, cry once is as true ads it gets when discussing long rang shooting. You wouldn't put a $39.99 BSA Cat's Eye scope on your 1000 yard rifle...

Invest in a good set of comp dies (Redding, RCBS, Hornady); a solid "H" press (the older CH Magnum press can be had used for under $200 and will outperform any other $200 press on the market); a high quality scale (hard to beat a good beam scale)...in my opinion those three items are key to competitive reloading...but certainly isn't a comprehensive list of everything you need....reloading will NEVER save you money these days. Case prep is also key and quality prep tools are a requirement.

If yer not ready to drop a cool grand getting set up to reload, I'd keep buying the factory loads that have proven themselves. I love reloading, but it's a deep, complex and spendy rabbit hole that just sucks ya in!

Did some shooting over my chronograph, and with using 2000MR, I'm getting 2675fps, which is what I need to reach 1000 using the 175gr SMK, which is what I was aiming for my load to do.

You might want to at least give it a look. Just a thought.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

looking to get a good consistent load for work in between 0-1000.

I have only used factory ammo in my rifle to date:

Atomic Nosler Custom Comp. 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds - loses consistency passed 650yds
Nosler Custom Comps 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds- loses consistency passed 650yds
Hornady Match 168gr BTHP - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds- loses consistency passed 650yds
FGMM 175gr - Sub Half inch groups @ 100yds - didn't test them at range as I was given 4 to see how they worked in my rifle.
ASYM Match ammo 175gr SMK - Sub half inch @ 100yds - zeroed in on the 890yds gong and went 8 for 8 with an obvious group on the plate.

Looking to get loads up to the same level as the ASYM factory loads. I shoot long range (890yds max at the local range) steel matches for now and will be looking into other work down the road.

Was thinking about doing the kit above with a Lee Perfect Powder Measure.

I would really only be doing small batches as the comps are only 40 rounds and the 308 is probably all I'll own for awhile. This kit would also be good as I could reload at the range on the spot if I wanted to.

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when i read your post the words that jump out at me are (loses consistancy).
at some point or distance they all lose consistancy.
the bigger the bullet and/or the higher the velocity the further that will be.
id be looking for a load that gives good accuracy at say 300 yds and be happy.

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Originally Posted by yobuck

when i read your post the words that jump out at me are (loses consistancy).
at some point or distance they all lose consistancy.
the bigger the bullet and/or the higher the velocity the further that will be.
id be looking for a load that gives good accuracy at say 300 yds and be happy.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by yobuck

when i read your post the words that jump out at me are (loses consistancy).
at some point or distance they all lose consistancy.
the bigger the bullet and/or the higher the velocity the further that will be.
id be looking for a load that gives good accuracy at say 300 yds and be happy.

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When I've had a factory load put 6 rounds one after the other on a 6" plate at 890yds it just seems like reloading would make much more consistent batches. The last batch of the same factory loads seemed to be a little hotter than the last.

I'm pretty happy with the factory ammo I've been using. Just want to keep the consistency tighter.

I'm shooting in a 3x600 match this coming weekend. So, I'll be able to see where the factory ammo is at for consistency.

Not looking to shoot pin holes just be a little more predictable until I get better and can invest more into it.

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Originally Posted by emtrescue6

...but it's a deep, complex and spendy rabbit hole that just sucks ya in!

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The best description of hand-loading I've seen yet. LOL You left out all the time spent loading and testing in the the OCD quest for the holy grail. Unfortunately, I've discovered that I can invest that time into hunting or reloading this time of year--but not both at the same time. ; (

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

When I've had a factory load put 6 rounds one after the other on a 6" plate at 890yds it just seems like reloading would make much more consistent batches. The last batch of the same factory loads seemed to be a little hotter than the last.

I'm pretty happy with the factory ammo I've been using. Just want to keep the consistency tighter.

I'm shooting in a 3x600 match this coming weekend. So, I'll be able to see where the factory ammo is at for consistency.

Not looking to shoot pin holes just be a little more predictable until I get better and can invest more into it.

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good luck with the match. point was a load that shoots well at 300 generaly shoots well further out.
question me on that by asking experienced shooters.
some loads and guns shoot all distances well but not all do.
also remember a good load wont turn the gun into a 300 win mag.
so when you reach the point the 308 loses consistancy due to distance, start thinking 300 win mag.

Well thats the plan to learn on the 308, reload for the 308. Then when ready rebarrel to either 7-08 or 260. I kind of like the idea of the 7-08 with the 168gr Bergers.

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Originally Posted by thermaler

The best description of hand-loading I've seen yet. LOL You left out all the time spent loading and testing in the the OCD quest for the holy grail. Unfortunately, I've discovered that I can invest that time into hunting or reloading this time of year--but not both at the same time. ; (

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Yeah I don't get near the amount of time on the bench (reloading of shooting) I'd like anymore. It's turned into several rifles that I have yet to spend time reloading for just hogging up space in the safe recently. I am down to focusing on 2-3 rifles now-a-days!

My 1,000+ yard loads don't print with crap, sub 500yards. Load and shoot for the distance desired.

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Originally Posted by darkker

My 1,000+ yard loads don't print with crap, sub 500yards. Load and shoot for the distance desired.

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That works for F-Class, but most of the matches I do range from 100-900yds. Not worried about tiny groups though, just enough consistancy to be predictable.

I wanted to get another Savage in either 6.5 or 260 but seeing as how my 11:25 twist mil spec HS in 308 is possible of giving me 2-3" patterns at 1K with simple 150SMK,s, and from my research, I saw that "most" 6.5 shooters are using 142gr pills anyway. Im only 8/10s of a grain off in weight so what the heck. I decided to go with a 1-10 twist FCP-K in 308 instead to launch heavier 175smk with 4064. Both rigs can run the course from 100 out to 1K but the heavier 175s dont require as much windage adj. at 1K. After all I live in the great southwestern part of texas where its always windy. just last sunday I found myself having to hold 10moa with the 150,s to land hits at 1K. and 3-4moa on the 175,s rig big difference a?.
I know Ill do what I really wanted to do at a later date with acquiring a 6.5 or 260 but for now.....its 2 rigs in 308.