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title says ot all. Used a Mansen go gage to set my headspace on my new barrel and firing pin would not even strike the primer. Reset with a piece of factory Hornady V max ammo and everything works fine. Hornady ammo seemed to be the tightest ammo, new unfired sized and primed Remington cases were a bit tighter but could be chambered w/o force, go gage would not even allow the bolt to close. Any ideas on why?
Rumor has it, gauges can be wrong.
Labeled wrong, Machined wrong. We can only guess until you get accurate measurements from it.
Extractor was removed for headspacing.... did you use a no-go gauge? Had to ask.
There's been a lot of reports of Hornady brass being slightly undersized in comparison to SAAMI spec's.
What caliber are you headspacing? Something doesnt pass the smell test. I never heard of the brand of guages you are using. But then again, there are a lot of things I never heard of. I would check to see if the barrel has the right chamber or a bad chamber. What brand barrel is it? If the firing pin isnt hitting a primer it sounds like the chamber is way too long. What is your proceedure for using the guage?
El Lobo
ejector was removed for headspacing, extractor was not, used tape for no go test .004 worth, Criterion barrel .204 Ruger
oh and I misspelled the gage name it is Manson with a o, not a e. Bought it from Brownells. I read the threads here complaining about Forster and PTG gages which is why I went with that brand. I called the club gunsmith guru and he said another club member had the same issue last year. I do not have a case length head space gage for this .204 with which to check the go gage. Is there any of checking the shoulder using a dial indicator and a or calipers.
What I am wondering is if I go with the Hornady and size my handloads to them will that be safe? I know if headspace is too large there can be major problems, if it is small other than chambering problems is there any issue? Once I get the barrel broke in it will never see anything except handloads.
I start with PT&G gauges to get "close" then set from full length resized brasss. May not be able to use factory ammo but I know going in my brass won't have to far to grow.
By bumping the shoulder and resizing the neck, my brass lasts a long time.
22BR, 6BR, .221 Fireball, 6.8 SPC and 6.8 BR brass with at 20+ firings and still going strong. 8)
Im not saying they cant make mistakes but Manson is top shelf stuff. What caliber are we talking about? I hate to suggest another expense but the Hornady LNL (case) headspace tool (kit) would clear some things up. If I am correct, all non belted bottleneck cartridges have a datum measured at a location on the the neck to the face of the rim. Using the LNL headspace gauge you can compare your gauge to your cases.
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-...h-Body-1-Each/
(You can use the body of the kit with a stoney point, a Hornady modified case and bullet comparator insert for much improved reloads as well. They are actually good at improving the belted magnums, but the datums are very individual chamber specific.)
And, the more tools you get and use, the more accurate your ammo can be as far as fit in the chamber. ;D
I appreciate all the replies, but am down to the point where I think I will just headspace to the Hornady, size the reloads to the Hornady and call it good. The more I think about it the worst thing that would happen is that the gun would be a bit tight chambering with other than Hornady factory ammo. Just got off the phone with the other club member that had a similar problem last year and while he used a piece of fired brass that had not been shot in his gun it works fine and shoots well.
If you use a piece of "full length" resized brass, you should be good. As long as you don't push the shoulder of the case back too far when resizing, (maybe .001 to .002 max.) your brass should last a long time.
There you go man.Quote:
Originally Posted by hound53
My quess would be when you initially tried to set headspace with the guage the extractor did not click over the guage.
You then set it to a piece of loaded ammo (don't EVER EVER do that again)
Due to saami specs and perhaps a little frustration you screwed the tube in past the extractor on your second try.
The guages are at saami max (larger in all dimensions) to allow all brass to fit. It can take a little extra force to get them past the extractor.
Lots of brass out there are produced under saami minimums. Theres a big difference between minimum and maximum.
Its also quite possible the guage is wrong.
I set all my barrels to crush fit virgin brass (unloaded) No guages.
With care brass lasts forever that way. I have no extra money for factory ammo ;D
You may find you need to remove some material from the top of your shellholder to bump the shoulders back when FL sizing.
As long as you reload your good to go with a short chamber.
Sounds like you did something right the second time.
As jo says above, I use virgin brass as gauge & adjust for good solid crush fit. Then run Lee Collet Neck Sizer to extend brass life even more.
I have always used gauges, have NOT always removed the extractor, but have NEVER had improper headspace. I believe, as was said, that the gauge did not go past the extractor. I would try it again, with extractor removed. The problem I (just for me personally, do as you please) have with using brass of any type, for setting headspace is, as was also pointed out, not all brass is made to the same specs, and I would hate to be on a hunt somewhere, and not have ammo (lost in luggage, forgot it?? you pick) and have to buy factory ammo, and find out it doesn't fit.
Now, as some have recommended on the belted cartridges, to NECK SIZE MY BRASS to my SAAMI chambered rifle, I find that much more doable because I can still always use any brand factory ammo in a pinch.
if you take the barrel off you can check case protrusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Avenger
+1, the front of the extractor groove should be flush with the end of the chamber.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Avenger
here is where I am at now. Set the headspace using the Hornady ammo, firing pin, extractor and ejector all removed. .003 worth of tape and bolt became difficult to close. Put in a piece of unsized Remington brass, very slight resistance on bolt but could still close without undue force, put in the Go gage, bolt will not close at all. Decided gage is bad/oversized/maybe it is a mislabeled No Go gage or whatever. Put the bolt back together and called it good to go. Will head back to the range tomorrow or Thursday and use the Hornady as barrel break in ammo. I am curious to see how this barrel shoots using off the shelf ammo anyway. I got a .243/308 etc gage in last night this time a Forster but was not curious enough to take the .204 barrel off and put the .243 back on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hound53
Actually that all sounds correct. By using brass as a guage you've essentially created a slightly shorter headspace than saami specs. The guage is designed to allow any brass/ammo you might ever purchase to chamber without resistance. You may eventually find some ammo or brass that will not chamber or be very difficult in doing so. Whenever possible I use Lapua brass. They're QC and saammi measurements are much closer than many others.
I have a batch of Winchester 204R brass thats headspaced .011" shorter than saami spec. If I set my barrels headspace using that brass NOTHING else will fit that chamber. Not factory ammo and certainly not a go guage. Comes real close to binding up the bolthead too. Another consideration to keep in mind. Gotta make sure that floating bolthead remains floated.
I thought about that the other night while thinking about it in bed, next morning I checked to make sure the belleville washer was between the bolt body and front baffle. Should have just gotten out of bed and checked it because I lay there for at least a half hour wondering if I had forgotten to install it. At this point I am convinced the go gage is mislabled or out of spec. Firing pin protrusion is .052 and it was not even denting the primers when set to the gage. I am just thankful that the round did not fire. Lesson I learned from this is after setting headspace with a go gage double check it with a piece of brass. I will never trust just the gage again. When I put the 243 barrel back on I will try the gage but check it with a piece of fired brass as a second check, then a piece of resized and primed brass as a third checkQuote:
Originally Posted by jo191145
Only problem I see using virgin brass is your sizing die may not be short enough to push the shoulder back as needed without modification to the die.
If you would like, you can send your gauge and a once fired brass to me and I will inspect what you have. The only cost would be about 5 or 6 dollars round trip in an padded envelope.(I have a bunch so I dont remember how much they cost) I will run the numbers against saami specs.
PM me if you are interested.
Ya can't hardly beat that offer with a stick.............. Good show fish ;D
it was not the gage, nor the headspace at all. It was the front action screw about 1/16 of a inch too long. Gun would work fine in the barrel vise, put it in the stock and "click" Took about three minutes to narrow down the problem once I discovered that.
Glad you finally got it sorted out.
There's your sign! ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by hound53
yeah I kinda feel like a dip for not catching that last Sunday.Quote:
Originally Posted by GaCop
On offtopic note I love that CBI barrel, stopped getting copper blueing on the patches before the first 20 had went through and had 1 group of 3 with the factory VMaxes that measured .146 center to center. Hopefully I can dial in some good handloaded stuff next week
Not a dip at all, we all learned from that. Not one of us suspected that issue. Glad you got it figured out though. sounds like that barrel is a keeper.
I think so, posted a picture of the three shot groups down in the picture forum. Couple of trips to the range will tell the tale. 5 and 10 shot groups with various powders and bullets and increasing the range out to 200 then 6 and 8 hundred. Supposedly this little 204 has better ballistics than a 223 , we will seeQuote:
Originally Posted by handirifle