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So some things have developed and I will be headed out west to go on an ELK hunt in the the next few years. That in my eyes constitutes a new build. I have plenty of short actions I could build on so I was thinking 300 wsm. Any thoughts on pros and cons on this caliber.
Well unless things have recently changed, that cartridge holds the world record for a 10 shot group in heavy gun 1000 yd benchrest.Quote:
Originally Posted by IAhunter
So I would guess that qualifies for something. Also its a very close comparison to the 300 win mag balisticly.
Good bullet selection choices, and you already have an action and a hankering to build one.
I think id be planning more on how id be finding an elk to shoot at, and how I intend hitting it, but that's me, and it does require a good gun.
Be thinking about good glasses, and a good lite tripod to support them, so you can spend hours using your eyes rather than your legs and lungs.
Words from the wise ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
Only con I can think of is there is potential not to be a "slick" feeder like something more along the lines of .308 Win. Guess a guy only needs one shot anyway. :-)
Good luck. Where you goin'?
I'm actually with YoBuck on this one.
The focus shouldn't be on the caliber, but the where and your ability with it.
When I still lived in the mountains of Idaho, all of mine fell to a single shot from a slower moving 165gr Hot-Cor from my 308.
MOST of the "problems" with bringing down really any game animal is the shooters failing, then typically from a poor choice in bullets.
Lots of folks over here in the desert like shooting 300WM with factory 150gr Core-Lokt bullets. Those bullets are WAY to soft for a mule deer if you hit bone. They love to Splash, then hear stories about ultra hard shoulders, 900 yard shots running, scopes that were off.... You get the idea.
Unless you really can't put the creep on an animal, there isn't much that won't be at operational velocity beyond what most hunters are actually capable of shooting accurately. So build what you want, or that intruiges you.
Thanks for the input all. I would like to assure you I am going with someone who had gone 3 times and will be using the guide he has used in the past. I also asked because as with any good hunt the prep is what pays off. Long time before we leave so just something to keep it fun while I wait. I was more or less just asking about personal experience with said caliber. The sooner it's finished the sooner I get to put in practice with it. Thanks again.
I also agree that bullet choice is important. The Speer HotCor 165, and I think they make a 180 gr as well, is as good as it gets.
300wsm is a good choice for elk.
Only use a soft bullet if it's a heavy one (208@2700 is impressive on elk)
If you wanna use a lighter/faster bullet use a heavier constructed one (a WSM will push a 165 well over 3000fps.
i have killed a lot of elk with an old 30-06 with 180 partitions, anything an 06 can do a 300wsm should do better
I would also look into the Barnes 168gr TTSX. I use it on deer in my 30-06, and it is incredibly accurate, in my rifle. I push mine to 2950 and at those speeds it still retains enough speed to open reliably, and 1500+lbs of energy at 500yds. About 100 past MY top yardage, so I would feel very comfortable with it from a 300 WSM. I would imagine another 150-200fps from the WSM. Here's Barnes' numbers on it, Diameter .308"
Weight 168
Length 1.406
S.D 0.253
B.C 0.47
Box QTY 50
Twist 1:11"
Catalog # 30370
I use it just in case I draw an elk tag, I am already familiar with it's range and trajectory. That 168gr will most likely out penetrate ANY 180gr lead core.
Great advice folks have posted.
Contact the outfitter for their advice or input. Listen to your guide. As most do know what they are doing, like what they are doing and want you to enjoy your hunt. And it would not hurt for you to show them you can hit what you are aiming at even with follow up shots from different shooting positions.
And believe it or not Western Hunter & Elk Hunter magazines are mighty helpful too. http://westernhunter.net/.
And for what it is also worth I am a heavy for caliber Partition, Woodleigh and Barnes bullet user.
Have never hunted elk and if I did I think it would be with a bow. With that being said, watch how many elk fall to a arrow. I know a lot may get away but the point is a properly place shot with a good bullet of almost any caliber or cartridge is capable within reason.
Just a FWIW from someone who lives in the heart of elk country.
Elk don't often hang out in the easiest of terrain to travel in. Being physically prepared may be as important or even more important than being ballistically prepared.
Just got home from an RV trip, and on the way stopped for a nite with some friends in Tehachapi, CA. They live in an area called Bear Valley Springs. Beautiful country, and there is a small herd of elk roaming through it. Hunting not allowed in the area so they are safe, well maybe not. Seems a few years back some moron and his buddies "just wanted to shoot something" so they shot a BIG bull elk, WITH THEIR 22's!!!!
It killed the big bull. Yes he was prosecuted, and I have no idea of the outcome, but am sure it was not enough. My point is, this idiot killed a big bull with a 22LR, so I am sure a 300WSM will do the trick.
One benefit of using the 300wsm is you can get factory ammo just about anywhere. The 300wsm has plenty of horsepower to take down any animal in north america in reasonable distance.
Anything that keeps a good .277, 7mm or 30 cal hunting bullet moving at a sufficient velocity at your intended max range will work. Lots of elk fall to short action non-magnums like 7mm-08 and 308 every year. Plenty also fall to 30 cal and larger magnums like 300 win and 300wsm and even 338's.
Build whatever you trips your trigger and that you think you can spend enough time behind the trigger on. Based on my experience out west, I would spend maybe 10% of my range time at the bench and the rest getting myself completely out of breath and then finding the least comfortable position possible and putting 2-3 on target as quickly as possible. It's more about shot placement and making the shot with elk than caliber.
All great info now I just have to get in shape ..... easier said than done haha.
Or he could cheat, and spend 10% of his time out of breath, and the rest relaxed while looking for elk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hair_Boxers
Then shoot from some sort of a good steady rest.
That's the beauty of Western hunting. Both options are a reality. Just depends on where you are hunting.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
More important to align your fitness and expectations to the area hunting than spend hours contemplating caliber.
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Let me know if I can help? I will be more than happy to steer you in the right direction.Quote:
Originally Posted by IAhunter
FWIW - I'm a Strength & Conditioning Coach based in Jackson Hole. I work with world class outdoor sports athletes and mtn guides. One of my athletes is the No.2 female ultra-runner in the world and an another is N.American Ski Mountaineering Champion.
Everything I program is based on scientific evidence not nonsense like crossfit, P90X etc....
Just shoot me a PM.
Absolutly spot on, but that also applies to other areas other than the west.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hair_Boxers
Id be spending time on the how part first, and what id need to do that best.
Then do an eeny meeny miney moe on the gun.
True. Pretty much applies to any hunting, right?
In the end, the rest of your gear like tent, optics, food, cook system, hydration and your physical and mental prep will have a much more important role in making the hunt a success. If all goes well you'll use your chosen method of harvest for a very minimal amount of time.
Id say the majority of elk hunters today, would operate from a camp of either a permanent or temporary nature.
Transportation to and from the hunting area would vary by that location, but vehicles have become very popular
in order to eliminate much hiking on foot. Which also allows for more quality hunting time and transportation of more gear.
So an early breakfast in a diner, and a stop for a few beers on the way back, has become part of the landscape for many elk hunters.
Just a thought,
Spend A LOT of time AND EFFORT on your research of where/who/when you are elk hunting.
You can have the biggest, fastest, hardest hitting gun in the world, and it won't do a thing if you do not see/have any elk.
Good Luck
Agree with a lot of the others posting here. Plenty of calibers capable of dropping an elk, but not if you can't get to them or are out of breath when you see them.
I spent 3 days last week hunting elk in a rugged area. Basecamp was a 5th wheel and we rode 4 wheelers to the trail heads. Walked 27 miles up and down mountains, and under and over fallen trees in 3 days. We started with 6 hunters, but only 2 of us were able to hang the full 3 days.
Make sure you have good boots you can comfortably walk miles and miles in, in water, rocks, on trees, etc. Make sure you can walk miles and miles without dying.
Many years ago I hunted elk in Washington State. I hunted public land. What was important in hunting public land was that the elk drop ASAP. My gunsmith suggested the 338 win mag. If your elk is hit but runs and another hunter puts a round into him then guess who tags the animal. Sounds terrible but it happens.
I hunt elk in Utah and I will tell you bullet choice and shot placement is priority one and two. I use a 28 nosler for bull elk and a 6.5 creed for cows. Most the hunters my buddy guides bring 30 cals, some even 338. Ultimately whatever you can shoot well will work. Good luck
Having lived and hunted in Arizona, Colorado and Wyoming can attest to the great info posted here.
300 WSM will definitely do the job under proper conditions.
Learn your load, drops, drifts etc and practice them often and in inclimate/unfavorable conditions, decide which shots you will/won't take. Shoot cold, shoot wet, shoot tired- you could realistically be all of the above.
Think about your gear, don't skimp on boots. Look at when you'll be hunting and research weather patterns for that area, averages, extremes etc, be prepared.
Have a blast!! It's a cliche but enjoy the time, the wilderness and the hunt, you'll be better off in the long run that way whether you bag a monster or not.
Best of luck.
BTW where in IA are you?
Since everyone is weighing in, I might as well too. On this supposed elk hunt, that appears to be with a guide, there really is no guide out there that is going to get you to a 500 yard shot and tell you to shoot. Guides have this thing about not wanting to ever wound an animal, and nobody really likes chasing a wounded animal for a day and a half after the shot. Guides will get you into a range that you could shoot with a 35 whelan and not have to worry about hold-over. They are going to get you in-range, or you won't be shooting. And guides like guns that put an elk on the ground quickly. Shooting out west is a dinner bell to bears.
Listen to Coach. Get in shape. If you can stick with your guide and not be out of breath doing it - then the guide is going to be comfortable taking you as far as the guide can go. That, and shoot from all kinds of different positions, at everything less than 300 yards. Spend time with your rifle, yes. But spend 500 times as much effort at physical conditioning. A 300 WSM is a great cartridge - if you want it, get it and get to know it well. But you probably already own a gun that will do just fine. Just don't short change getting in shape. Get in shape wearing the boots and socks/clothes you'll hunt in, better to do that stepping over trees, climbing the meanest hill you can find.
Call coach, he offered. You'll end up enjoying the hunt more.
180gr Nosler Accubond worked nicely for my elk