Put 3 layers of scotch tape and bolt still closed!!! Go No Go on order. Will post results
Printable View
Put 3 layers of scotch tape and bolt still closed!!! Go No Go on order. Will post results
???? Factory loaded ammo or rolling your own?? Be so much easier to pull a couple of pieces of tape off the case head. One piece should tell you what you need to know. If you're using tape, you must be rolling your own??
AND, (if you're rolling your own) if you were to load your bullets LONG, as in stuffed into the lands, that would hold the case against the bolt head, the round would fire and the case gets formed to the chamber. THEN, (if you are rolling your own) make sure you don't push the shoulder back too far and end up with the same situation again. Factory loaded ammo? Reset the headspace and go shooting. :cool:
Thanks for input. Definitely rolling my own. I have barrel wrench and holding apparatus so i will set headspace right. May at times want to use factory ammo. I also put piece of masking tape and it closed! Shame it came from factory like that
When you get your go/no go gauges, I think you will find the factory headspace is within SAAMI specifications.
If it is not, (and you are interested in not voiding your warranty) rather than pulling the barrel you might consider sending it back to Savage. Just sayin!
thanks. might do just that
And if you plan to use gauges, ( I don't anymore) when resizing, make sure you don't end up moving the shoulders on your brass back too far or you'll end up with the same situation.
Fired brass will re chamber with no excess effort? Partial neck size, reload and go shooting. Sooner or later you'll figure out how far you'll need to go in sizing. The more you move that brass, the sooner and harder it gets. (as in worked hardened)
Well wbm you were right!!! Go goes and no go is a no go. Where do I go now?
Brass too short for the chamber. You're rolling your own so, increase the OAL so the bullet is stuffed into the lands. Pull the bullets out a little.
That will hold the case head against the bolt head so when it goes BANG, the shoulder will get blown forward and fit the chamber. Might take a couple of times to get a better fit.
Try a few that way and see for yourself. Hey, we didn't learn this crap, overnight. :cool:
And if the brass is too short for the chamber and the round goes BANG, the primer will try to back out of the pocket, get punched/pierced/blanked (whatever you want to call it) and then you think WTH?? More crap to deal with and my Savage rifle is CRAP??
Just another step in the learning process. And just when you think you know it all, something else will get "upside your head". :eek:
My guess is, most of us have been there, done that at least a time or two. Some may not want to admit it. Pretty easy to wipe egg off your face. It IS a learning process.;)
Thanks for input, thats what i am going to do. Neck sized some brass this eve and shot 5 without misfire. Remeasured and they increased another .010. I felt a little resistance when ejecting. Think i will bump them back a couple of thousands and try to chamber them. Thanks again for all the help. 72 years old and 40+ years reloading and still learning... Will post results
My chamber on my 338 I found was too tight for just neck sizing. Cases fired in it, for some reason didn’t want to chamber easily. I switched to FL sizing, but still barely bump the shoulder back and has worked well so far. I just back the sizing die off of the shell holder about 1/4 turn, size it, and try to chamber it. Keep adjusting until it chambers with just a slight bit of resistance. Seems to chamber easier than just neck sizing but still not bumping the shoulder back too far.
^^^^ What he said. It's a "try this" thing till you get things the way YOU WANT IT.
I've gone to Precision Shoulder Bump Dies. Somewhere down the line I'll throw in a body size and move on.
Full length sizer die backed off a bit ? Works for me. Brass gets snug on bolt opening? Just touch the shoulder and try again.
Keep at it till you get what YOU WANT. We're all still learning.
Somewhere down the line you'll go for all the trick s**t gizzmo tools. It's part of the plan. The fun part. :cool:
Glad things are coming together for you.;)
And I'll add while I'am thinking about it. The OAL of your loaded rounds won't change. It'a the same distance to the lands. Just the shoulder distance is different. You need to know where the lands are.
Build yourself a dummy round so you'll know where to seat your bullets. Once you know that measurement, you adjust your seating depth to where YOU want it. What works for ME may not work for you.
I build all my ammo (except for my gas guns) with the bullets jammed .010 into the lands.
I only bench shoot so I know what to expect if I have to unload a live round and the bullet sticks in the lands. (:eek::mad:)
i fixed one that had the same issue , screwed it in another heavy 1/8 turn , went bang every time , 5/8 group in 3006
thanks for input!! xmanjeff you talking about scewing barell in 1/8 turn or what?
Are u talking about die
Been neck sizing and using cci primers and no misfires! Was using federal before. I am not dure if it was primers, neck sizing or both but it worked
I just started using Lapua SRP brass and am having more than usual FTF with a CCI450 primer. 6.5CM. The Lapua brass new is -.2-.4 thou and the fired cases are 0.0 so I am thinking my issues is short brass. I was about to change the Elftman trigger back out for the OEM trigger to see if that helps. The WIN brass I have been using I push back to 0.0 after firing to .2. Whidden gauge used for shoulder measurement.
Welcome to the brotherhood. I think it’s the CCI 450 primers. Myself and fellow shooters have experienced the problem for the last 4 or 5 years. In a 80 round match, maybe get 3 FTF’s. I always try to fire these rounds again in the rifle, sometimes as many as 10 times. That primer is driven into the case beyond recognition, and still doesn’t fire. And this is with bushed bolts. I break these rounds down, remove the primer, put on My welding gear for safety, take the primer to the anvil and smack it with a hammer. Almost all of them go bang. I don’t know what’s going on, but the problem is common to CCI 450 primers.
I’m using the 450’s for my 223 loads. No problems with any so far. But it’s in an AR, not a Bolt Gun.
Edit: But I’d say if the only thing changed was the primers, and it’s working fine with other primers.. standard 400’s or Large Rifle Al’s, than it’s a fair assumption it’s most likely the 450’s.
A 1/8th turn(45*) on a die(14TPI) is about .009". That is a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by xmanjeff
If a CCI 450 won't go off, it's an ignition issue caused by lack impact energy, in turn caused by insufficient firing pin travel.
+1.
Nope. Not the case in this case. And not just Savage actions. Have seen it with Bat, Kelbly, Borden, and Barnard. Custom built rifles smithed by some of the best rifle builders in the country. Must be a lot of high end sick actions out there? This is what I witnessed and is My testimony.Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpshooter
"it's an ignition issue caused by lack impact energy."Quote:
I don’t know what’s going on
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrenGuy
Those actions have issues too, and it is not because of the primers, it caused by my original statement.
Perhaps some of the CCI 450 cups are too thick or stiff? But I still don’t see why they won’t fire when they are subjected to multiple attempts, smashed down as far as they will go. When a new firing pin spring is installed, and the pin protrusion is .035”, and the problem persists, it seems the only solution is to go to an aftermarket spring, or switch to a different primer. When 450’s ignite, they contribute to My most accurate loads. I will try some BR 4’s, which have worked well in the past.
But if powder and bullets don’t soon become available, this will all be a moot point for My Bench Rest Shooting.
Frustrating for sure. Powder, primers, and powder are becoming more available each month so that is good news. Personally, unless there is something "magic" about 450's in your rifles or loads, I would go with another brand.Quote:
But if powder and bullets don’t soon become available, this will all be a moot point for My Bench Rest Shooting.
I have REM 7 1/2's I use for Service Rifle competition so Maybe I will give them a try in place of the 450's. I know 450's work in Service Rifle loads for auto loaders. I too agree on firing pin issues. I had called Savage once about getting new springs but they would not sell me parts unless I am a smith. Frustrated. Next loads will run the REM 7 1/2 Bench Rest primers.
TO add I did swap the Accutrigger back into the action also. Savage Axis II Precision
FWIW: Check out https://precisionrifleblog.com/2019/...oor-load-data/
The 450's are way ahead of anything else.
I have swapped the OEM accutrigger back in, will see how it works, may load 450's and 7 1/2's I do not have the brick of 205M I used to. I do have 205MAR primers. Sounds like I Need to check the headspace (tape) see if the trigger release works better with the accurtrigger. Be shooting service rifle this weekend so wont report back for a while. Thank you for all the info and hte letting hijack this thread.
Load testing today with 450 SRP load and changed to the accutrigger and mcarbo kit
Why not it works great pulls at 1lb and breaks clean
Every round fired
Jump testing next Thanks for letting me jump in here