12FV owners---What factory ammo works for you?

Wasn't sure to post here or "At The Range".
Seems to be several new 12FV owners and didn't want to bury this in another long 12FV thread.
For the factory ammo shooters, I am curious what has worked and what has not. I do not plan, at this time, to reload if I can find something to live with. I am a novice, so the more I shoot, the more comfortable I get. Today, I adjusted down my accutrigger, and it seemed to help today's groupings. It felt better.
I purchased an assortment to get an idea. Nothing high end, until I get some range time in. Obviously, since every rifle is different, YMMV.

These results are from using all of the ammo in 4 shot groups.
AE 50 gr. JHP..............Consistent, promising, different POI
Hornady 53 gr. Vmax....Consistent, promising, different POI
AE AR223 55 gr. FMJ....Promising, somewhat consistent
AE 55 gr. FMJBT..........Decent groups, somewhat consistent
PPU 55 gr. SP..............Just so-so
PMC Bronze 55 gr. PSP..Not good
AE 62 gr. FMJBT..........Not bad, a bit inconsistent
Armscor 62 gr. FMJ.......Decent groups, somewhat inconsistent
PPU 69 gr. HPBT..........Somewhat consistent. Promising

Updated for new info.

Australian Outback 69 gr. HPBT........Consistent, sub moa
Black Hills 68 gr. MKHP....................Consistent, sub moa, very tight tolerance in a 50 round box
IMI 55 gr. FMJ...............................Not good(from my rifle), about like PMC Bronze
AE AR223 55gr. FMJ........................See above. The more I use the better it gets.
AE Ar223 50gr. varmint tipped...........Fairly consistent, sub MOA, different POI than heaviers

If you have done something similar, what works for yours? Just curious.
These are the better groups. The others aren't horrible, just not MOA, with some flyers involved, and my novice ability. 100 yds.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...pszo7k9ssg.jpg


http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psaulpurof.jpg


http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psdjbaa6me.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psiuepgff1.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...psfv7gv1ln.jpg

Buy a couple boxes of factory loaded Australian Outback 69g SMK BTHP. Both mine and my buddys .223 FV shoots average .6" 5 shot groups all day long with them.

Try the AE223GTV in 50 grain. Pretty consistent 3/4 minute but many times will put 3 in a ragged hole at 100 yds.

It's hard to beat Lapua. I don't have data for my .223, but my 6mm BR has shot a best 5-shot 100 yd group of .188 MOA. I suspect their .223 is of equally high quality; expensive though.

If I were unable to hand load ammo for a match for some reason, my factory ammo of choice would be Lapua.

If you are punching paper for tight groups it requires high quality ammo. So I would say at this point try a box of higher quality ammo like black hills or other well known factory match brand.

With that said, looking at the average of your group sizes it makes me debate if it's the rifle, ammo, or shooter in the equation.

Please let us know what your shooting set up is and we may be able to provide some pointers that will tighten up your group shooting before you spend a ton of money trying to find the perfect brand of factory ammo.


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Shooting set up is front and rear bags on concrete bench. To answer your comment, LoneWolf, the variable is most likely the shooter.
Another reason for the post was to give those wondering the same thing, from my personal experience. Once I settle on something, I can dial in the scope and leave it. I don't want to be adjusting scope for different weights.

I've seen a lot of shooters and have helped many in my short time. First thing that sticks out to me is the consistency of group size with multiple types of ammo as I stated. Is the 12 FV in a flimsy stock or something pretty solid? It is possible you are doing your job, but unknowingly have the rifle set up in a manner that works against consistency. If it's one of the Savages with a rather flexible stock you need to ensure that the front bag is not to far forward causing the forearm to flex and touch the barrel. Also you need to ensure that the tang is floated. I trust that your scope base and rings are properly torqued and checked prior to a range outing.

Obviously, I don't know what your level of experience is, but these are a few of the things I'd start checking first!

^^^^^^+1.

And don't forget to torque the action screws properly. IIRC, no more than 35 INCH pounds on the front, and then torque the rear to 10 inch pounds and shoot a group, raise torque to 15 and shoot, etc. When the groups tighten up, stop there and take note of the torque values.

Thanks, LoneWolf
The 12 FV has the beefier stock and it is definitely floated. Does not flex much. I rest closer to the action so to not take any chances of causing the stock to flex into the barrel. The tang is also floated. I can slide a card beneath it. Level of shooting is pretty much a beginner. My 65 year old eyes and nerves probably has some effect. Base and rings have been properly torqued

Texas 10
Read quite a bit on torque for the action. I had it at 35 front and 15 rear, but after pulling stock to adjust trigger pull, I snugged both after reading many opinions on proper torque. Many, many opinions. Actually, my last groups after the trigger adjust and just snugging the screws, showed the better groups. Seems like the more rounds down the barrel, the better it gets.

You didn't mention whether you're using one, but a rear bag cut my groups in half.

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Originally Posted by holescreek

You didn't mention whether you're using one, but a rear bag cut my groups in half.

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See my earlier post.

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Originally Posted by WV1951

Shooting set up is front and rear bags on concrete bench.

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My FV 12 223 seems to like the lighter bullets so far 40 to 50, 55's are ok, but the 62's did not do as well. Here is a 3 shot group @200 yds with HSM ammo, 40gr Berger match FB
http://i1281.photobucket.com/albums/...psnaynlqw0.jpg

Great thread and post guys ! Thanks for sharing all your info. This is the best gun sight in the net. Martyd

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

If you are punching paper for tight groups it requires high quality ammo. So I would say at this point try a box of higher quality ammo like black hills or other well known factory match brand.

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Mediocre ammo will usually give you mediocre results. I like using it to get me on paper but then move to quality ammo.

Quality ammo should allow you to concentrate on your form/mechanics and not second guess whether it's you or the ammo.

Check out this link to MidwayUSA for some under-55 grain .223 Rem Match-grade ammo.

I wouldn't discount the heavy bullets yet. I'm shooting a 12fv barrel and action. Mine loved every 69gr load I threw it but I had to really work to find a 53gr vmax load that was 0.5moa or better.

Just back from the range and ran my buddy's target through the ontarget program. Stock Model 12FV (still in the tupperware stock) with a knock off Harris bipod from Walmart. It has a 20MOA Millett Rail mounted (because I had an extra one to give him) topped with a Sightron 8-32x56 scope set at 24X. Target at 100 yards, Ammo is Australian Outback 69gr Sierra Match King ($12.99/box at Cabellas). Granted it isn't benchrest quality shooting it's decent for an old guy with low cost factory ammo. My 12FV is all tricked out (except for the cheap scope) and despite shooting 69gr SMK reloads using a front rest my best group was .416" today. I tried some light bullets early on and couldn't get them to group. After that I went to the heavy bullets and never looked back.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29...psfbibcqry.jpg

Funny thing about his lower left group, he called his first shot way left then the next two were in the black. He put the two in between just to see if he could.

How much time did you allow between groups? ^^^^^^

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Originally Posted by Wide Glide

I wouldn't discount the heavy bullets yet. I'm shooting a 12fv barrel and action. Mine loved every 69gr load I threw it but I had to really work to find a 53gr vmax load that was 0.5moa or better.

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So far, with my limited experience, the lighter pills definitely have a different POI than the heavies. I am going to try some Australian Outback 69 gr. when I can get some. Cabelas is putting it on sale this week, but not driving an hour to get it. Not giving up on the 50-53 gr. Just need to shoot some more.

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Originally Posted by WV1951

How much time did you allow between groups? ^^^^^^

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We (neither one of us) take any time at all for barrel cooling. We load up 5 at a time and move from target to target. I've shot as many as 15 five shot groups in a row at a fast pace without a measureable difference between the first and last groups (easy to get away with when you shoot as bad as I do!). But all of my rifles have very heavy barrels. I understand it's a concern on light weight hunting barrels, I don't shoot that kind of rifle. Now to be fair, I've never had a one hole group. My best two groups were .26" and .27" (5 shots at 100) with the 12FV.

BTW, I don't know if I'm allowed to say it here but Cabelas is having a sale 10% off plus free shipping through labor day which includes ammo. Code: 6TENOFF

One question for all the other 12FV owners out there. Is anyone else having problems with a weak extractor? My buddy's rifle will drop the empty case inside the action if he doesn't pull the bolt back really fast. I've tried everything I can think of to get it to work right but I'm guessing the ball detent underneath the extractor is in the wrong place creating a loose hold. My rifle flings the case out no matter how slow I pull the bolt rearward.

Thanks for the tip, holes creek! I was planning on making the hour drive to Cabelas tomorrow, but instead took advantage of the sale with free shipping. Got a Magnetospeed chrono, and some Outback ammo in 69 gr SMK to try out in my 12FV. Saved enough money to pay for a couple of range sessions.

Woo-Hoo!

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Originally Posted by holescreek

One question for all the other 12FV owners out there. Is anyone else having problems with a weak extractor? My buddy's rifle will drop the empty case inside the action if he doesn't pull the bolt back really fast. I've tried everything I can think of to get it to work right but I'm guessing the ball detent underneath the extractor is in the wrong place creating a loose hold. My rifle flings the case out no matter how slow I pull the bolt rearward.

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Yes, having that problem in both my 12BVSS in 223 and my 12FV in 22-250. Both leave the case laying on top the magazine and I have to fish it out. Sometimes the 223 will get flipped around so I have to be careful to not cycle the bolt without looking first.

Does anyone know....will the larger ball bearing under the extractor mod fix this issue?

Mine ejects every time(so far).

Federal Power Shok 100gr. 12v .243 , and two other slim barrel .243 shoot it in tiny groups at 100yrds. Screwed up and sold 12fv barrel to a member who most likely has it stored and won't part with it.

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Originally Posted by LoneWolf

If you are punching paper for tight groups it requires high quality ammo. So I would say at this point try a box of higher quality ammo like black hills or other well known factory match brand.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by holescreek

Buy a couple boxes of factory loaded Australian Outback 69g SMK BTHP. Both mine and my buddys .223 FV shoots average .6" 5 shot groups all day long with them.

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I have some Australian Outback and Black Hills on the way. Anxious to see how they do.

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Originally Posted by holescreek

One question for all the other 12FV owners out there. Is anyone else having problems with a weak extractor? My buddy's rifle will drop the empty case inside the action if he doesn't pull the bolt back really fast. I've tried everything I can think of to get it to work right but I'm guessing the ball detent underneath the extractor is in the wrong place creating a loose hold. My rifle flings the case out no matter how slow I pull the bolt rearward.

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I ve never had any problems with extraction in my Model 12 at all

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Originally Posted by WV1951

I have some Australian Outback and Black Hills on the way. Anxious to see how they do.

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Looks like the suggestions might pay off. With my ability. or lack thereof, I probably wouldn't get much more from reloads.
My first try. Gonna wait for cooler weather before going back out.

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g1...pspvcqbeqz.jpg

Looks like you're getting there now!

I decided to just go ahead and buy a hundred 9/64" steel balls from Amazon. Nine bucks and two days later I replaced the balls under the extractor on both guns and now they eject more reliably.

Talk about a quick and easy fix!

If any are wondering about consistency, I have found the Black Hills to hold the tightest tolerance for OAL, if it makes any difference. Out of a box of fifty, the OAL does not vary more than .004. I have measured all that I shot(8-10 brands) and by far this is the most consistent.

Few more added to first post.

I hear that these guns shoot austrilian out back 69 gr hp really good. Going to try to buy one box and try it out. Martyd

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Originally Posted by Texas10

Try the AE223GTV in 50 grain. Pretty consistent 3/4 minute but many times will put 3 in a ragged hole at 100 yds.

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Finally found some. Shot a couple of groups. Sub MOA but still not as good as the Australian Outback and Black Hills in my rifle. As with the other lighter pills, POI was considerably different, but consistent. Most of them shoot 3/4 to 1 1/2 inches to the right. Of course, YMMV.

Managed to shoot a 4 group .350 today with the Australian Outback. Don't think I can do much better without a lot more practice.
All in all, I am pleased with the 12FV and the AO

I am going to buy done Australian outback 69 gr. I think only place that sales it is cabelas ? Martyd

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Originally Posted by NDAR15MAN

I am going to buy done Australian outback 69 gr. I think only place that sales it is cabelas ? Martyd

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http://ammoseek.com/ammo/223-remingt...ifle-69grains-

I mail ordered 5 boxes of the Australian Outback 223 69 gr SMK from Cabelas after reading about them here, and tried them out in my 8 twist 12 BVSS and my sons 9 twist 12FV. Shot much better in his gun putting 5 in a 3/4 inch group at 100 yds, albeit in an indoor range.

So took his rifle and the Outback for a little pig hunting under the super hunters moon. Took a 180 lb boar with one shot through the lungs and heart.

Shoots tight, and shoots deadly. What's not to like?

Wow. Sounds good. I will order a box and if they shoot good might try to catch 1000 rounds on sale. That would last me the rest of my life. Thanks. Marty

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Originally Posted by Texas10

I mail ordered 5 boxes of the Australian Outback 223 69 gr SMK from Cabelas.

Shoots tight, and shoots deadly. What's not to like?

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For those who do not reload(like me), won't do much better for factory ammo.:redface-new: Also, if you ever see any Black Hills 68grainers, might try a few.