accustock issues?????

I few months ago I purchased 2 weather warriors with accustocks in 7mm rem mag. I immediately removed the stocks so that I could minimize the trigger pull of the accutriggers.
I follwed the instructions for the installation of the stocks and used a calibrated torque wrench while following the prescribed torque sequence.

Neither of the rifles will shoot less than a 1 1/2" group after 3 shots, and has never shot less than an 1" for the first 3 shots. Since my marlin xs7, stevens 200 and ruger mkII and savage 110 all shoot less than 1 1/2" groups and usually less than 1" groups I had hoped for better accuracy from these rifles. I know they have the makings of accurate rifles. I have tried several hand loads in each as well as factory ammo.

I think I may have over tightened the accustuck screws and appllied too much clamping force. I follwed the torque info, but I think i screwed up by adding a drop of loc tite to each screw. This basically lubricated the screws, which meant the spec of 40 in-lbs produced greater clamping force than necessary.

I have since removed the screws and re-torqued with dry threads. I have not shot either since this adjustment.

[b]Does anyone know how the increased clamping force will affect the accuracy?

Thanks

Remove the accu-wedge and pitch it, it causes more problems than it will solve. install both action screws finger tight, set the gun upright on it's butt so the lug will settle against the lug reinforcement, then tighten the front screw first, then the rear.

Agreed with Fred.
I was out at the range today with my FCP-k in .308 that, when factory and untouched, would shoot 3/4" groups @100 yards, off a bipod, no bag. Well, I later removed the action for whatever reason and reinstalled it. Today at the range I started with a 2" group AT 50 YARDS!!!!!!!! I tightened the action screws as recommended by Savage so that wasn't the problem. I ended up loosening all the screws at the range, tightened the wedged to 20in/lbs, then the other action screws to 55in/lbs, then loosened the wedge and shoot a 3/4" group at 100 yards. Then I rechecked the action screws and found that they had loosened, and I basically struggled with them the rest of the day.
Long story short, just minutes ago I filled my accustock with epoxy and stuck the action in - going back to what we all know works.

I found out when I did a review of the precision carbine that removing the wedge greatly affected accuracy. I got flamed on it, and blown off, and now I am glad to read that people are starting to see the same thing I did.

My BAT/S shot great when the wedge was set just right(I got lucky that time I guess). Took the stock off and could NEVER get it back shooting again. Dumped the inaccu-wedge and the problem was solved.

First bedding job for me - ironic that it was done to an accustock, lol! Bye-bye accuwedge, hello ol'skool:
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/z...e/bedding1.jpg
Also note the sear pin retaining plug I installed. I had problems with it migrating and causing trigger/bolt-cocking issues:
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/z...earpinplug.jpg

bodywerks- I'm LMAO at your post and timing!!!!!!! Ya.... Ol Skool works! I just finished a project for someone who had the exact same issues. We set him up with one of my T6061 rails with a Corian stock. I'm not sure what he did with the old stock, but if Savage had any large windows in front of their building, I bet this guy is thinking about tossing it thru one....... Nice work on you bedding.... Good Luck.


Muddflaps- There are several people who are feeling your pain...... Good Luck with it.

FWIW, the best group I ever got with this rifle prior to bedding it was about 5/8", and that was when it was new and before I took it apart. I took the gun out today, shot my usual loads of 175smk's over 43.9g Varget at 2.810". First group sucked, mostly because of a clean barrel and me, but the second group, 5 shots, was the best 100yd group this rifle ever shot:
[img width=600 height=427]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/accuwedge/best308group.jpg[/img]
I measure it at about 5/16"...let's just say I'm happy with that!
The rest of the groups opened up a good bit, but I mostly attribute it to the high, varying winds, and the loose nut behind the trigger, lol! They still stayed sub-MOA for the most part, though...

So do most people agree that it's best to remove the ACCWEDGE?I've never had mine out of the stock,but I had to send it back to Savage for some feeding issues.After getting it back,I put the scope back ont to line it up and it still shoots good ,but I think it doesn't group as good as before I sent it.Could be the weather too affecting accuracy.It's a mdl. 10 PC .223 .I'm sure they had it out of the stock working on it.
JEFF

hmm, now i'm tempted to remove my accuwedge or whatever it's called. i recently bought a 10 FLCP-K that's shooting 5 in 3/8" at 100 yards. i have yet to remove the accustock. should i pitch the wedge when i do remove the stock?

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Originally Posted by eight_heads

hmm, now i'm tempted to remove my accuwedge or whatever it's called. i recently bought a 10 FLCP-K that's shooting 5 in 3/8" at 100 yards. i have yet to remove the accustock. should i pitch the wedge when i do remove the stock?

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I've got the same question about removing the wedge. ???
Jeff

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Originally Posted by jeffc2x

So do most people agree that it's best to remove the ACCWEDGE?I've never had mine out of the stock,but I had to send it back to Savage for some feeding issues.After getting it back,I put the scope back ont to line it up and it still shoots good ,but I think it doesn't group as good as before I sent it.Could be the weather too affecting accuracy.It's a mdl. 10 PC .223 .I'm sure they had it out of the stock working on it.
JEFF

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Jeff,
I don't agree at all. I've had my action/barrel out of it's AccuStock 4 times now since January for various reasons. I'm also new to Savage since late last year. I've gone by the Savage sequence for accuracy each time I've put the rifle (10 FLCP-K) back together and it consistently groups at 3/8 to 1/2 inch at 300 yards no problems. You know there have to be thousands of AccuStocks out there now and people hear a couple of problems and think the sky is falling. In my experience of firearms and users it comes down to operator error over 90% of the time.

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Originally Posted by MSG Janoski

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Originally Posted by jeffc2x

So do most people agree that it's best to remove the ACCWEDGE?I've never had mine out of the stock,but I had to send it back to Savage for some feeding issues.After getting it back,I put the scope back ont to line it up and it still shoots good ,but I think it doesn't group as good as before I sent it.Could be the weather too affecting accuracy.It's a mdl. 10 PC .223 .I'm sure they had it out of the stock working on it.
JEFF

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Jeff,
I don't agree at all. I've had my action/barrel out of it's AccuStock 4 times now since January for various reasons. I'm also new to Savage since late last year. I've gone by the Savage sequence for accuracy each time I've put the rifle (10 FLCP-K) back together and it consistently groups at 3/8 to 1/2 inch at 300 yards no problems. You know there have to be thousands of AccuStocks out there now and people hear a couple of problems and think the sky is falling. In my experience of firearms and users it comes down to operator error over 90% of the time.

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What caliber,load,and grain bullet are you shooting?Do you find that yours shoots good or great groups depending on the temp. outside?I need to buy me a torque wrench for this rifle.
THANKS JEFF
THANKS JEFF

I torqued mine to the specs per savage - wedge screw first to 10in/lbs, then the other two. Then increase torque by 10in/lbs and repeat until you get to 45in/lbs. Performance was still erratic.
I agree that operator error can and probably does always play a part, but the bottom line is that the accuwedge will never be better than a good bedding job. Maybe as good, under specific circumstances, but never better...

I shot mine some more this afternoon after it cooled off,no wind.I shot some loads that shot good before,and they didn,t shoot so good,using AA2230 .,Nosler 55 gr. Balistic tip,and some Varget with 65 gr.Sierra Gameking.Also shot some WINCHESTER white box 45 gr.HP,they shot great.When shooting do you let the barrel cool between shots,or shoot a 3 or 5 shot group then cool.I've shot some good groups with a warm or hot barrel.I'm thinking about taking the wedge out and trying some groups.Whats some of your best grouping loads?Also do you think crimping or not make a big difference?
JEFF

I found that in the 10 Precision carbine I had I shot some good groups once I removed the accu-wedge. I found that the gun shot well with many different loads.
This is a group shot with 69 gr SMK's over Varget.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/IMG_0080-1.jpg[/img]
68 Hornady
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...y/IMG_0079.jpg
My favorite 77 SMK over 4895.
[img width=600 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/IMG_0081-1.jpg[/img]
Another favorite 52 match bullet over N133
[img width=600 height=450]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/IMG_0082-1.jpg[/img]

All I know was the gun would not hold .5 groups with the accu wedge installed and tight. My thoughts are; If a guns actions screws are so torque sensitive that they need to be tightened in a specific sequence and to a specific torque it has a bad bedding problem.

I'll take a pillar bedded stock over a accustock any day. Lets face it, Savage put out some of the most accurate mass produced rifles (BEFORE the sales gimmick "accu-stock") in the cheapo flimsy plastic stocks. Now that we have the accu-stock and better accuracy,Custom rifles wouldn't have a chance :D . Give it 5 years and we will all see the real deal. If you ask me, the hype/sales gimmick sure fell flat!!

What caliber,load,and grain bullet are you shooting?Do you find that yours shoots good or great groups depending on the temp. outside?I need to buy me a torque wrench for this rifle.
THANKS JEFF
THANKS JEFF

Jeff,
Was it you I answered in a PM? Anyway I'm shooting just plain old Federal GM308M, of course groups can be affected by temp and rate of fire. My tightest groups are on good weather/wind days. I have some cases of M118 Ball that don't group quite as well as the Federal and that's to be expected. I have been a long distance marksman practically my whole military career so I do have years of experience that I rely on. The AccuStock torquing sequence I use that Chris Bezzina sent me is below.

There used to be the procedure in a post I supplied here but I cannot find it with the search option, but is it here;
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...75#Post1609675

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

Remove the accu-wedge and pitch it, it causes more problems than it will solve. install both action screws finger tight, set the gun upright on it's butt so the lug will settle against the lug reinforcement, then tighten the front screw first, then the rear.

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I took out my Accuwedge today and have been playing wth some loads,but stiil will not shoot a consistant group except with the Win.white box(40 rds.)45 gr.factory ammo.Before I sent it to Savage it was shooting good. ???It is 98 degrees here today,don't know if that has alot to do with it or not.Seems like it was cooler weather when it shot better.Do you think Win. uses 748 powder in thier white box .223 ammo?I don't know if I should put the accuwedge back in or not. ::)Any ideas?
JEFF

A lot of times it is just the mindset of the shooter. I am not a consistent 1/2MOA shooter, but my groups just seemed to be erratic when I had the wedge in.
I have a Savage FCP-k in .223 also. I ditched the entire stock and did a skim bed on a Choate custom Tactical for it. I m still working up an optimal load, but I do find that the gun shoots more consistently. Here is two 5-shot groups I did at 200 yards, at different times in the day and different wind conditions. The lower right-hand group was done in a fairly high quartering cross wind from the left. For the upper left-hand group, the only reason it is higher and to the left is because I dialed a minute of elevation prior to shooting it and the left-right wind had died.
[img width=600 height=448]http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz53/bodywerks/accuwedge/2010-07-10120153.jpg[/img]

I put the accuwedge back in and loaded up some 55 gr. bullets after the weather cooled down a bit.I loaded some Reminton HP's and Nosler Balistic tips with 25 grs of Winchester 748.They grouped really good.So I think when it's hotter than hell outside and humid it really affects accuracy.I may be wrong,but just my opinion.Also I loaded the ammo going by the Sierra load book for the C.O.L ,and the REM bullets had a canlure.I thught about ordering some WIN.46 gr.HP'S to try,because thr white box ammo shot so well.Anybody tried these?
THANKS JEFF

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consistently groups at 3/8 to 1/2 inch at 300 yards no problems.

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Thats some remarkable accuracy!!!! Well done :)

+1

MAYBE. moa. But NOT inches. 3/8 moa at 300 is one heck of a shooter and no wind

Probably like the shooters that occassionally show up at the local range. They look at targets set up, ask the range and when told don't believe its only 100 yards. Out pheasant hunting with a party of out staters when one made comment about shooting a deer half mile away. Pointed to a tree in the distance and said too him that he hit a deer that far away. Oh! Not that far! Then how far? He pointed to another feature and guessed it was approximate same distance. Then I told him the tree was a half mile and his object was about 250 yards away. He then disputed my information. At that point had to go into a long explanation how land was measured and set up. That I had been farming that land nearly my whole life and that I know what a quarter, half and full mile looks like. We happen to be standing on the road of the section line and that tree was in fence line of the half section. Still didn't believe me.

[quote=hi-teck ]

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Originally Posted by jdg

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consistently groups at 3/8 to 1/2 inch at 300 yards no problems.

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I'm calling BS...show me the targets.

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hi-teck,
Come on out to the facility I can show you and perhaps myself or one of the other two instructors can help you out if your long range shooting needs a tune-up!

Rockin-R-Ranch
Contracted Shooting Facility U.S. Army Special Forces Command
Long Range Rifle, Combat Pistol and Recon

We are south of Nashville, TN

jeffc2x, you might consider working up to a heavier powder charge with 748 and 55-grainers. 26.6 grains of 748 is a known OCW charge weight with 55s. Unless Hodgy or General Dynamics has been messing with the burn rate, or you have a specific circumstance with your rifle that develops excess pressure near that charge, that should shoot well in most any 223 Rem rifle. It's possible that you're seeing inconsistent ignition or burning due partly to somewhat low pressure?

As to the WWB ammo-- They might use anything, but it's most likely 748 or a non-canister-grade lot that's roughly equivalent.

[quote=hi-teck ]

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Originally Posted by jdg

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consistently groups at 3/8 to 1/2 inch at 300 yards no problems.

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I'm calling BS...show me the targets.

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I'd like to see those targets,also. A claim like that needs to be documented and recorded in the hall of fame. That would have to be some sort of World record,IF it actually happened.

I also laughed at that comment. Let me guess, you shot off the hood of a hummer while dodging machine gun fire. Somebody been watching too much TV ::)

I'd buy 3/8 to 1/2 MOA @ 300yards, and be impressed, but 3/8-1/2" is mall ninja talk...

I just ordered MIII long range hunter in 6.5x.284 Norma with the accustock,I hope I don,t have the problems that I have read here on this thread.
Be sure if I have any I will let you all know.
Here,s hopping.

I ordered a 116flcss from Savage about 10 weeks ago and I talked to Effie about 2 weeks ago to get an update on it. She told me that Savage was waiting for an improved Accustock to come in. As of today, they still had not recieved that shipment but they are expecting next week. My rifle is ready except for the stock. I will try to post some pictures of the stock when I finally get it.

:o New and improved HUMM,That doesn,t sound good, if there is a problem. I guess they have had complaints on The Accustock. Lets hope they solve the problem.

i wonder if it's just a new stock shape for that model and not an actual accustock change

:'( I am still waiting for my rifle.

Is the accuwedge = accustock? ??? Or is it just one piece of the overall accustock system, with the remaining parts still providing a better stock? I'm trying to decide between two of the Predator Hunter models - one with accustock, one without.

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Originally Posted by wahoowad

Is the accuwedge = accustock? ??? Or is it just one piece of the overall accustock system, with the remaining parts still providing a better stock? I'm trying to decide between two of the Predator Hunter models - one with accustock, one without.

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No the accuwedge is just a small part that locks the recoil lug back against the the lug shelf, it does the same thing as tightening the actions screws with the gun upright on the recoil pad. The accu-stock is a aluminum bedding area, that stiffen up the forearm of the rifle. It is a slight improvement over the factory plastic stocks, but is it worth the extra cash,IMO no it is not. The accu-stock is a far cry away from a HS precision, a wood stock, or other quality stocks.

[quote=82boy ]

Thanks 82boy,

I ask as the Predator line has one version with the accustock (Hunter Max 1) and one without (Hunter Brush) yet I have been quoted the same price to purchase either. I had been told the Brush model without the accustock was very accurate so I figured the accustock model would be even better. I see it is a heavier gun too so perhaps I will go with the lighter Brush model without the accustock. Any opinions on these guns with regard to accustock?

Heck if they are the same price I think I would get the accu-stock one, the accu-stock is slightly better than the factory plastic stock. This would be a benefit if you plan of shooting it off of a bi-pod. I would say differently if you plan of modifying the gun, and changing out the stock. I would go for the other one, do to stock availability.

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Originally Posted by 82boy

Heck if they are the same price I think I would get the accu-stock one, the accu-stock is slightly better than the factory plastic stock. This would be a benefit if you plan of shooting it off of a bi-pod. I would say differently if you plan of modifying the gun, and changing out the stock. I would go for the other one, do to stock availability.

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Grrrrrrr.... I wish I'd found this a couple weeks ago, before I'd dropped the cash.

Although it does seem hit-and-miss. Are there instructions here somewhere for epoxy bedding the accustock if it becomes necessary?

I don't want to wind up like duhast and others and have to keep fiddling with the accustock. I don't know if I will need to, I'm just going off this thread which makes it sound like the accustock is complicated. I want to be able to remove my stock for cleaning, etc. without worrying I have lost my zero.

82boy - Should I consider getting the accustock rifle but removing the wedge???

[quote=duhast ]

Just bed it like any other stock.

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Originally Posted by wahoowad

I don't want to wind up like duhast and others and have to keep fiddling with the accustock. I don't know if I will need to, I'm just going off this thread which makes it sound like the accustock is complicated. I want to be able to remove my stock for cleaning, etc. without worrying I have lost my zero.

82boy - Should I consider getting the accustock rifle but removing the wedge???

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I find that the accu-stock is a bit more complicated than the standard stock. If you do get an accu-stock I would remove the wedge I found that the one I had shot better that way. IMO any gun that is so torque sensitive that the action screw need torqued in a sequence, or at a specific torque weight has a bedding problem.

I agree with you about the sequence. Do you still have to follow the torque sequence if you remove the wedge?

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Originally Posted by wahoowad

I agree with you about the sequence. Do you still have to follow the torque sequence if you remove the wedge?

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I have never tried the torque sequence, so I don't know if it even works or not, it is just an article that was put out on savageaccuracy.com web site claiming that it makes a difference. I found that the rifle I had shot some amazing groups with the accu-stock once I removed the accu-wedge. I just torqued the action down hand tight. The only complaint I had with it this way was every once in a while the rifle would just go wild and shoot some unexpected flyer's, then go back to shooting great. I could never figure this out. I just contributed it to the accu-stock. In closing I would say that the 10PC I had would make one heck of a hunting varmint rifle! The guns was plenty accurate, but to call it a precision paper puncher, or a tactical rifle,I would not. The biggest problem I have with the 10PC is the cost. Now if Savage would lower the cost of the gun to the price range of a 10FP, I would say that it would be equal grounds, and if someone wanted something to shoot off of a bi-pod I would recommend the 10PC over the 10FP. But if someone wanted something to modify I would recommend the 10fp, because of the stock availability.

82boy, it is my understanding that the accuwedge is THE ESSENCE of the accustock system. In other words, in order for it to be an accustock it must have an accuwedge.

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Originally Posted by bodywerks

82boy, it is my understanding that the accuwedge is THE ESSENCE of the accustock system. In other words, in order for it to be an accustock it must have an accuwedge.

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How do you figure?

All the accu-wedge does is push the recoil lug back to its rearmost point. That is it, the only function it serves. The same thing is accomplished buy setting the rifle up on its recoil pad when tightening down the action screws. The "Accu-stock " will function properly without it. The heart of the "accu-stock" system is the aluminum u channel bedding system, the spreads apart when the action is tightened down. From what I have seen of the "accu-wedge" is that it can conflict with the bedding system. In some guns.(Not all) the accu-wedge will cause the recoil lug to bottom out, and not allow the action to fully seat down into the u channel. The accu-wedge is a serious flaw within the accu-stock system. When the accu-wedge is fully tightened down it places unneeded stress on the action, and causes the action to not sit squarely in the u channel bedding system, therefore defeating the hole purpose of even having an u channel bedding system. I have shot the rifle both ways with the accu-wedge in ans out and every time I can say that it shot better without. I have also seen the action shift and pop, when releasing the tension from the accu wedge, even at light settings.

I do not like the accuwedge so no need to go there. I chucked the wedge on my FCP-k and bedded it and will do the same if my 110BA has the wedge.
I guess the better way to get my point across is to ask this:
Is there an Accustock that does NOT incorporate the accuwedge and the '3D bedding' system(my understanding is that the wedge is an integral part of the accustock design).
Yes,I know all accustocks incorporate an aluminum bedding, but without the wedge it is really just that - an aluminum bedding. And of course it is FAR superior to an all plastic stock. But if you toss the wedge then you just have a stock with an aluminum bed - it is no longer an accustock. My opinion, of course...or if you know of an accustock that does not incorporate the wedge then I stand corrected...

Does the new "improved" Accustock have a different wedge?