New savage build accuracy concerns

I am sighting in the new savage 111 .300 win mag build that me and my bro have finished and the accuracy that we are getting is poor at best. It is a criterion barrel that has been broke in properly and is sitting in a boyds nutmeg stock. we have inletted the barrel to the stock and is now free floating, so there are no contact points. We have been shooting 180gr. nosler balistic tips into around 1" at 100yards and just recently tried some remington 180 gr. accutips tonite and it hit center on first shot and then 4" low on the next shot. The rifle has been shooting all over the whole break in process and so my question is what could be causing the stringing and widespread shots? Im confused myself and dont what could be wrong. Any info on this would be great. Thanks

bedding

Check to see if base & ring are loose, need clearance around front, sides & bottom of recoil lug, check tang for free float, if no free float, the action may not be touching pillars. Scope may have went bad, if other things don't help, try another scope.

My bet is Scope failure or scope base issue.

Often times the screws for the front base are too long and they bottom out before they actually tighten on the base itself. So you think its tight, but its not.

If all that checks out then as mentioned above check the tang for float. With a Remmy there is a screw there so you would want it bedded or at least snug, but on a Savage the screw is well ahead of it and long story short it can cause action pressure point issues and can cause problems.

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Originally Posted by short round

Check to see if base & ring are loose, need clearance around front, sides & bottom of recoil lug, check tang for free float, if no free float, the action may not be touching pillars. Scope may have went bad, if other things don't help, try another scope.

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Originally Posted by short round

Check to see if base & ring are loose, need clearance around front, sides & bottom of recoil lug, check tang for free float, if no free float, the action may not be touching pillars. Scope may have went bad, if other things don't help, try another scope.

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^^^this... goodluck! and let us know any updates...

Sometimes the Savage rifles take a slight bit of tweaking, but once they are dialed in there are no complaints!

First off it it isn't bedded...Bed it...then I would disassemble the entire rifle, completely, scope and rings, mounts as well, clean, inspect and reassemble torquing everything to spec. Fire it again...also...some scopes are just not up to 300WM recoil levels...consider getting better glass if you are not running a really good scope now, or just swap it out with another scope to see if the problem persists (its scope related at that point)...also...some twist/caliber configurations do not like X bullet weights...I found my Savage 300WM liked 168-175 Sierra's but not the 200+ bullets...my Savage 308 likes 175 FGMM, hates 168's, same twist rate, different caliber...it'll take some tweeking but my bet is you'll get it sorted out...

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Originally Posted by CAPTBEACH

First off it it isn't bedded...Bed it...then I would disassemble the entire rifle, completely, scope and rings, mounts as well, clean, inspect and reassemble torquing everything to spec. Fire it again...also...some scopes are just not up to 300WM recoil levels...consider getting better glass if you are not running a really good scope now, or just swap it out with another scope to see if the problem persists (its scope related at that point)...also...some twist/caliber configurations do not like X bullet weights...I found my Savage 300WM liked 168-175 Sierra's but not the 200+ bullets...my Savage 308 likes 175 FGMM, hates 168's, same twist rate, different caliber...it'll take some tweeking but my bet is you'll get it sorted out...

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Thanks for all the good info. Do you happen to know the torque specs for the savage action screws?

My experience with Boyd's stocks is they need to be glass bedded, especially if it doesn't have pillars installed.

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Originally Posted by GaCop

My experience with Boyd's stocks is they need to be glass bedded, especially if it doesn't have pillars installed.

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Ok. So should i bed the whole action or just part of the action(like from recoil lug to magazine well and then do the tang area in the rear)? What works best as far as bedding goes for the savage?

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Originally Posted by Remingtonman

Ok. So should i bed the whole action or just part of the action(like from recoil lug to magazine well and then do the tang area in the rear)? What works best as far as bedding goes for the savage?

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Some people do just the front area, some people the front and rear area. Either way float the tang.

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Originally Posted by bootsmcguire;

With a Remmy there is a screw there so you would want it bedded or at least snug, but on a Savage the screw is well ahead of it and long story short it can cause action pressure point issues and can cause problems.

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Originally Posted by Remingtonman

Ok. So should i bed the whole action or just part of the action(like from recoil lug to magazine well and then do the tang area in the rear)? What works best as far as bedding goes for the savage?

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I bed front and rear and float the tang. That has worked for me time after time so I stay with it.

Another thing to check, is front action screw, a tad to long causing it to rub bolt head lug.

All actions should be bedded around each action screw, recoil lugs and preferably the distance between.

So on savage recoil lug to trigger. Float the tang. I go two pieces of electrical tape on the tang

Agreed large calibers watch your scopes. I wouldnt put anything other than luepold vortex NF S&B swfa on it.

Check the action screws get a metal trigger gaurd if your using a plastic one.

Pillar bed!

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Originally Posted by GaCop

I bed front and rear and float the tang. That has worked for me time after time so I stay with it.

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Might be kind of a dumb question but, is the tang area in between the recoil lug and the where the trigger sits in the stock?

No the tang is at the rear of the action. The area under the safety button.

Heres my recent bedding jobs

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps7e964bb8.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps84331c91.jpg

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Originally Posted by limige

Heres my recent bedding jobs

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps7e964bb8.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...ps84331c91.jpg

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Ok great. Thanks for the picts and the helpful insights. Im going to bed the 111 soon and maybe pillar bed it shortly after.

1" groups @ 100 with a 300 WM? I would go back to the Noslers and play with seating depth and/or powder....1" is a great start. I would add that recoil/flinch may be one of the issues....have you shot heavy recoil rifles before?

I notice one reply said the recoil lug needs clearance on front, sides and bottom. I thought it needed to be bedded to stop torquing and movement

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Originally Posted by Jonl

I notice one reply said the recoil lug needs clearance on front, sides and bottom. I thought it needed to be bedded to stop torquing and movement

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the lug should be floated except for the rear face of the lug (breach side) It should be true to the rear of the recoil lug so the recoil does not force the action/barrel to one side or the other under recoil.

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Originally Posted by Remingtonman

Ok great. Thanks for the picts and the helpful insights. Im going to bed the 111 soon and maybe pillar bed it shortly after.

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I don' think it is possible to bed and then pillar later. Doesn't make much sense to me to try, anyhow. Just my humble opinion, of course.

How does it stop side to side movement if it only touches the breach side? My Choate tactical stock had a big gap in front and side of lug and the Choate tech guy said it was left that way because people were putting thicker lugs on but he would bed the entire lug if it was his which I did and the gun shoots under 1/2 moa. This was my first but not last build and maybe I was lucky.

some shooters will permanently bed their action to their stock, but I won't.

If the action is bedded properly it won't shift. The recoil lug is suppose to handle the recoil, it is not there to stop any side to side twisting caused by pour action bedding.

I have noticed on 2 of my factory savage stocks that the factory pillars are recessed in the stock and not touching the action. One being a 14 american classic in 300wsm both pillars are recessed. The other a 11 trophy hunter xp in .243 on this stock the rear pillar is touching the action and the front( recoil lug end) is not and was recessed. I tapped the front pillar out of the stock and done a little work and devconed it back in slighly higher. The 14 american classic has a pretty stock and I dont want to ugly it up lol.

bed pillars and action at same time. this is a common topic and a forum search will provide much info. +1 on electrical tape for tang float. also, a dremel will remove excess material or make clean relief cuts where needed. try plumbers putty for trapping and filling it's cheap and works well I like kiwi neutral shoe polish for a release agent. lamp rod makes good pillars. my boyds stock had a plastic insert in the front screw hole torque means nothing if squashing plastic is the result. might want to use a little tape on that recoil lug bed the back tight. good luck

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Originally Posted by stewart3

bed pillars and action at same time. this is a common topic and a forum search will provide much info. +1 on electrical tape for tang float. also, a dremel will remove excess material or make clean relief cuts where needed. try plumbers putty for trapping and filling it's cheap and works well I like kiwi neutral shoe polish for a release agent. lamp rod makes good pillars. my boyds stock had a plastic insert in the front screw hole torque means nothing if squashing plastic is the result. might want to use a little tape on that recoil lug bed the back tight. good luck

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Remingtonman - I had the very same issue just recently with a 308 I built. No matter what I did I couldn't get it down below 3-4" groups. I finally bedded the recoil lug, I used what I had, which was quik steel, with a layer of tape around the edges of the lug and on the front, and shoe polish as my release agent rub it ALL over! Worked great! Rifle was immeadiatly down under and inch. There was a good 1/8 of space behind the recoil lug, it wasn't doing anything before bedding.

I probably should have used 2 layers of tape in spots, but it fits and it is TIGHT. There are a couple fo GREAT youtube videos on bedding, I watched those and dove in. I did use the remainder of the quiksteel to reenforce the spine of the plastic stock out to the forend, just packed it in as tight as I could, added a fair amout of rigidity to the stock. I am running a .990 thick barrel so stock flex isn't a major concern of mine.

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Originally Posted by triehl27

Remingtonman - I had the very same issue just recently with a 308 I built. No matter what I did I couldn't get it down below 3-4" groups. I finally bedded the recoil lug, I used what I had, which was quik steel, with a layer of tape around the edges of the lug and on the front, and shoe polish as my release agent rub it ALL over! Worked great! Rifle was immeadiatly down under and inch. There was a good 1/8 of space behind the recoil lug, it wasn't doing anything before bedding.

I probably should have used 2 layers of tape in spots, but it fits and it is TIGHT. There are a couple fo GREAT youtube videos on bedding, I watched those and dove in. I did use the remainder of the quiksteel to reenforce the spine of the plastic stock out to the forend, just packed it in as tight as I could, added a fair amout of rigidity to the stock. I am running a .990 thick barrel so stock flex isn't a major concern of mine.

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Sounds just like my problem that im having lol. Should I use tape on anything else besides my recoil lug and barrel nut before applying my bedding compound, or should I just apply tape to my whole action for proper spacing between action and stock once the bedding compound has cured?

I put two layers on tape on the tang, sides of the recoil lug and front of lug. One layer around barrel nut and down the length of the barrel to insure its floats. Then along the top edge of the stock along the action area and inside the box mag if you have one. Also one wrap around each action screw and coat them well in release agent. I have a set with the heads cut off to align the action. You dont want to screw the action down only set it in place and hold it tightly with masking tape. Then coat everything in release agent you dont want bedding compound on. Use putty on the sear and barrel nut area to stop leakage and haven't lots of q tips handy for cleanup once you seat it.

This is just my opinion but if you don't pillar bed those boyds stocks eventually there will be issues. If I could get photobucket to talk to my machine I would give you some pics of a 7rm in a boyds that shoots one ragged hole at a 100yds. Again, a search of this site will provide countless photos and info on how to properly bed a savage in a boyds. Your factory plastic stock has pillars why would you think that a wood and glue stock won't need them. Bed your lug and skim bed the Tupperware and your 300wnm will shoot better! or maybe it won't for a while. Then there will be another remmy guy who **** talks savages.

Scope.

What kind of pillars do you all recommend for the 111 stock?

I use lamp rod

I also use lamp rod. I like the fact it is cheap, readily available and threaded. Threading makes the bedding compound grip it better.

I would like something similar with larger inside diameter, however. It works, but I would like to have more clearance around the action screws.

Another vote for lamp rod....for the same reasons Foxx says...