New 30-06 vertical stringing!

I bought a new 30-06 from cabelas about a month ago. Its a beautiful rifle, accutrigger, laminate stock-BUT I cant get it to shoot. Three trips to the range and 5 Different types of factory ammo and they all do the same thing. There is almost zero horizontal deflection (you could draw a straight line through the groups), but vertically its a 1 1/2 or 2 inch spread. It has a Nikon 4-12 scope on it. Mind you i was shooting off a bipod and I know there are varying opinions on this. I know will some will say its shooter error, but if i can get those types of grouping from a 1943 mosin with a $30 scope on it, I would expect a little more from a new rifle. I have tried adjusting torque on the action bolt, loading the bipod, letting it free recoil, tight grip pressure, light grip pressure,etc-but the results are the same.. some times i'll even put 2 rounds touching but then the next will be 2 inches high. Dont know what else to do from here. Also, shouldn't the pillars actually touch the action? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thankshttp://i835.photobucket.com/albums/z...ps747ef7ef.jpg

Are you getting much hop with the bipod, it could easily account for this much movement? The shot will go in the direction of the hop, and this is especially true if the bipod is on a hard surface and you do not have a lot of experience in managing this. Try carpet under the bipod, or a different rest like a sandbag to get another data point to be sure. Easier to start with this vs modifying the rifle; of course another quick check is to be sure the barrel is floated.

Vertical stringing is generally indicative of a bedding issue. Like CharlieNC said, I would try the rifle on sandbags or other type of rest before I made any judgment. When I shoot with a bipod I take my off hand and hold the bipod leg down to reduce hop. If this does not help then you should look at bedding the action to the stock and make certain that the barrel floats. Good luck.

Quote: Also, shouldn't the pillars actually touch the action? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

Yes they should
As others have said make sure the barrel and tang are free floating
I would really take a look at the tang
I did not notice in your original post whether you checked the scope bases and rings but that is another area to check
Let us know what you find
Good luck
Jack

The barrell is completely floated. The tang does not appear to be. Also what should i check on the scope and rings?

The barrel is floated all the way to the recoil lug. the tang does not appear to be. What should i check on the scope and rings? and as far as the pillars go... the rear pillar has that little clip from the centerfeed magazine resting on top of it.. but even that is recessed below the wood

I was shooting off a bench, yes it was a hard surface. would placing a piece of carpet underneath really make that big a difference?

By the way thanks everyone for the quick responses!

Does the rifle recoil straight back every time or does the muzzle jump? That's where your shot is going. Carpet under the bipod may help a little but s sand bag rest would be better. High recoil plus a bipod is tougher to master than you may think; no problem with my 223 but the 308 is more challenging.

Make sure your action screws are snug. I look for spring..I first finger tight the front screw then make up the rear screw finger tight then lock down the front and then the rear. If it begins to get tight but you can still turn the screw a half turn it needs to be bedded and or pillared.

Shoot from a bag front and rear. Rotate your elevation turret from end point to endpoint then recenter. If it has a parallax adjustment on the side or AO learn how to adjust it. Remove your thumb from the stock as well as your three non trigger fingers. Fire. Report back.

I have had stocks where the pillars did not touch the action when the action was touching the wood. Initially, I fixed this by shaping a 1/4" brass washer over a 1" socket for the front pillar and cutting the back out of another washer for the rear pillar, and epoxied them in. Also, you want that "L" clip below the top of the rear pillar. Then I glass bedded the action. Eventually, I removed the original pillars and did a proper job. Also, as mentioned above, check the scope and mounts. Good Luck-Good Shooting........Jim

Sounds to like a bedding issue, pure and simple! Put some soot or similar on the bottom of the receiver and tighten the bolts. Then pull action and check for contact marks. My guess, and the FIRST place I would look, is the recoil lug. If the bottom of the lug makes contact it WILL lift the front of the receiver, and force the tang into the stock. Might just have to hog out some material under the lug and it will sit normally.

If that didn't fix it, then free float the tang, and recheck.

If that is your issue, go back and shoot it just like before for a test. If you start changing too many things at once, you will not know what it was for sure.

For a hunting rifle, in my opinion, three shots inside of a minute or two should yield about a 1.5" group or better. When hunting, if the first shot doesn't drop the animal, ya can't wait 10 minutes for the barrel to cool for a follow up.

Stangfish, when I tighten the front bolt it tightens and stops-couldnt turn it anymore if you tried. The rear, however, you can keep tightening and tightening. In fact you can hear the stock kinda crackle and pop when tightening the rear screw.

I know this has probably been asked a thousand times, but where can I find detailed instructions on bedding? There doesnt seem to be m uch to bed behind the magazine with the bolt release cutout and the marterial relieved in the rear pillar area.

Lets try and slide something under the rear tang. Cheap printer or notebook paper is approximately .0035 or .0040 thick, try that.

Paper will slide under one side of the tang but not the other. In fact you can see that the tang does not sit perfectly square in the stock. The one side of the stock is touching from the tang down the entire side of the action. Is sanding a lil material away a viable option?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NASIROKLA

The one side of the stock is touching from the tang down the entire side of the action. Is sanding a lil material away a viable option?

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That is what you will need to do
But before you do that, insure that the recoil lug is setting square against the stock ( also that there is not something in the lug area preventing square contact) this could be a small sliver of plastic, a burr on the stock, dirt, etc
If you have not already done this: I would stand the rifle straight up and loosen the action screws where the action is loose in the stock
Holding downward pressure on the barrel tighten the front screw snug, then snug the back screw, i even bump the rifle (butt first) to "seat" the lug
Inspect the tang area for free float as Stangfish described
If you still have one side touching and screw not tightening solid, sanding is needed until action is indeed setting on top of the mag Lclip/pillar
I hope this helps
Jack

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NASIROKLA

Is sanding a lil material away a viable option?

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Yes or dremel. But only in the tang area. Tape areas you do not want to affect. It should be touching on all sides of the action. If you can slide anything between the round part of the action and the stock we have a problem and will need to address that. We need to get the action snug on all sides. Everyone is giving good advice. If you can right down a checklist of things to go over and check them off you will have discovered the issue more than likely. Lets put getting the action to set in the stock evenly first.

OK. I relieved some material under the tang and its now 100% floated. I also sanded down a couple high spots under the barrel nut. Probably wont make it out to the range until next weekend, but I'll report back after I do.

What brands of ammo are you using and what bullets are in them?
I've seen this happen before,on my friends rifle. The barrel nut was not as tight as it should have been. I know it sounds like it could not happen but it did!

Hornady sst, hornady sp, federal w/ nosler ballistic tips, winchester power points, remington core lokts. All 150 grain. dont have an action wrench, so I couldnt tighten it up even if it was loose.

Are you going to hand load your own shells? Or can you get some one to load some for you? This may,the factory loads,may be the biggest part of your problem?
Don't get flustered,you will figure it out.

OK. Went to the range today... same thing. This time I shot 150s as well as 165s. the 150 had about the same "pattern" as the last range visit. As far as the 165s.... WOW! I'm talking about 4 shot about 6 inches from top to bottom. Once again all in a vertical pattern. two of the 165s in one group missed the paper completely! Just to see if it was the bipod, i took it off and shot off a bag with the same results... dont know what to do from here.

It sounds to me as if the action is not seated fully in the stock. If the recoil lug is bottoming out and you tighten the front action screw it will tend to "bend" the action. The lug should NOT touch the stock, on the bottom, just at the rear of the lug. That is the only thing I can think of. You have checked the crown on the barrel for nicks/dents I assume?

And we are certain it is NOT the scope/mounts, correct?
Also the barrel IS free floated from front to the barrel nut?
One thing to try on the action bedding, is cut some cardboard about as thick as say a cereal box, and lay it beneath the action, between the action and stock. Then tighten the action screws according to specs, and try again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NASIROKLA

Stangfish, when I tighten the front bolt it tightens and stops-couldnt turn it anymore if you tried. The rear, however, you can keep tightening and tightening. In fact you can hear the stock kinda crackle and pop when tightening the rear screw.

I know this has probably been asked a thousand times, but where can I find detailed instructions on bedding? There doesnt seem to be m uch to bed behind the magazine with the bolt release cutout and the marterial relieved in the rear pillar area.

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This post right here tell me the action is not seating. The action should ALWAYS make full contact with the stock, bedded or not, and no matter if the pillars touch or not. When the rear causes noise when tightened, it is not pulling on a seated action, it's pulling on wood that does not clear the action and is interfering. Also, the front screw bottoming out, tells me the front has too much material relieved, allowing the action to "jump" at each shot. Try a couple layers of the cardboard first, then remove them until problem reappears. I still say its a bedding issue. Something needs to be relieved in the rear to allow the action to seat, and the front needs to be built up a bit.

I know its all a pain, but when you get this fixed, you WILL remember what causes this particular problem.

ok. experimented with cardboard shimming and found that a single layer near the front action screw almost eliminated the snap crackle pop when tightening the bolts. it also stopped the springing of the action when loosening the screws. So' now do I
1. Try to shoot it while shimmed?
2. Muster up the courage and bed it myself
3. Call savage and see what they have to say

BTW.The barrel is completely floated and the recoil lug is not bottoming out

Read and study up on bedding your own gun! It is not as hard as you think. I was the same way 30 years ago! If you think you didn't do it right,it is not hard to remove it and start over.
There are lots of " how to" instructions on here and you tube,check them out.

Can you show us a picture of your target? Have you adjusted the parallax on this scope correctly. You may be aware of this but the adjustment on the left side is not really a side focus. It is used to remove parallax, If you set your rifle on a bench or table and without any contact with the rifle or the table it is sitting on while looking through the scope can you move your head around and the crosshairs remain in the exact point of aim. If not this could be at least one of your problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NASIROKLA

Stangfish, when I tighten the front bolt it tightens and stops-couldnt turn it anymore if you tried. The rear, however, you can keep tightening and tightening. In fact you can hear the stock kinda crackle and pop when tightening the rear screw.

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I had the some problem with my Model 16 Weather Warrior -- until I discovered that the rear screw is the trigger guard screw and anchors into the plastic of the stock and not the action. It took less than 10 inch-lb torque to strip those plastic threads. Most of the on-line references, including those from Savage, did not alert me to this. I found out only after discovering the problem and digging deeper.

Your stock might be similar and it is worth checking.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by NASIROKLA

ok. experimented with cardboard shimming and found that a single layer near the front action screw almost eliminated the snap crackle pop when tightening the bolts. it also stopped the springing of the action when loosening the screws. So' now do I
1. Try to shoot it while shimmed? YES! In fact add shimming until ALL the crackle stops. This isn't permanent, it's a test.
2. Muster up the courage and bed it myself YES! But not before you trim away all the contact areas. That is a must.
3. Call savage and see what they have to say NO! No need. they will tell you nothing compared to the info here. Trust us we are giving you experienced info here.

BTW.The barrel is completely floated and the recoil lug is not bottoming out

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Good


Read the bold words

Handi, You made the points.

One word when your done my friend...Satisfaction!

You can also make shims from an aluminum can too.

Bedding a rifle is easy.......BUT you need to research. Release agent is your friendHopefullyfuly these guys get you squared away and that rifle shooting better.

Good luck.

Ok so nearly 2 years later i grew enough courage and bedded the stock. It didnt turn out the best as there were a couple small voids in the bedding( didnt use enough epoxy). As far as the the mag goes i cut the L off the clip and used a couple dabs of epoxy putty to hold the mag in the stock.

I went to the range and it still shot like crap. So i bought a set of dies, some powder, and some bullets. Went to the range today and was able to get sub moa groups! Night and day difference! The gun is now a shooter!

I recently had the same issue with a 110 in 308 except the stringing was horizontal. Turns out that the scope was scooting in the rings just a tad with each shot.
tommyt