Groups like this all the time...

Hello everyone, I seem to shoot 2 consistent groups. IE: two shots will cut and then the next two will cut, but be an inch lower in the exact same pattern. I can't tell if its me flinching consistently or of it is the optics or mounts?

I have the rifle bedded in a bell and Carlson medalist stock with aluminum bedding block. It's a 300wby cartridge.

Optics are burris 6-24x44 signature scope. It has their forever warrantee.

I am not sure on the base and rings as I bought the rifle used.

It still shoots sub MOA, but if that issue was able to get squared away I should be able to shoot a 4 shot group at .30" instead of 1.0" at 100 yards. I have tried different hand loads and it doesn't seem to matter. I can never get all 4 to cut. They are always the same pattern, just the second 2 are ALWAYS 1" low.

Once I get enough posts to attach a picture I will.

A couple thoughts;

Try having someone else shoot your rifle to see if the issue goes away.

Also, I didnt see where you discussed your ammo. Is it commercial, or reloads? If commercial, try another brand. If reloads, try adjusting your load. I like the OCW load development method, but a lot of folks like the ladder method. Either way, give it a try.



Good luck.

Sean

You didn't mention anything about your rifle either. Sporter barrels firing shots one right after another would not suprise me if it does what you describe.

Two minutes between shots to let the barrel cool.

The rifle is actually a weatherby Mark V with 28" barrel and muzzle break.

I posted here as it gets more traffic and I own savage as well. :)

My hand loads are not the issue. I have had my father shoot my rifle and he can shoot consistent 4 shot groups at 100 under .50 with his Remington 700 SPS and nightforce optics.

He shoots exactly where I shoot with my rifle. So I would say its not shooter error at this point.

Someone suggested that I remove all the stock screws, magazine and base plate and see if there is any wiggle room length wise in the action area as my rifle may need to be bedded in my bell and Carlson stock if it wiggles. I will give that a try to tonight.

So your loads shoot great in you fathers gun that is a Remington so you are sure that the loads are not the problem? Your gun is a weatherby. Which gun shot the .5 group?

This comment makes my head spin

Quote:

---

My hand loads are not the issue. I have had my father shoot my rifle and he can shoot consistent 4 shot groups at 100 under .50 with his Remington 700 SPS and nightforce optics.

---

My fathers gun shoots .5. His is a .300 WSM. I guess what I'm trying to say is I can shoot his gun accurately and he shoots his gun accurately at .5 at 100. When either of us shoot mine it's always 1" with stacked 2 shot groups. Pictures would be worth 1000 words.

OK now I gotcha. What is your load?

180gn TTSX
81.5 gns H-4831sc
Weatherby Brass
Fed GM215M primer
COAL 3.725

220gn Hornady
66gns IMR4831
Weatherby Brass
Fed GM215M primer
COAL 3.589"


Both loads shoot exactly the same way.

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/4431/idl0.jpg

I'm still looking for the caliber of your weatherby. I have searched and searched.

http://imageshack.us/a/img4/4431/idl0.jpg

300 weatherby cartridge.

Let me know if you can view the pic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983Weatherby

Once I get enough posts to attach a picture I will.

---

No such limitation exists. Try reading this: http://www.savageshooters.com/forumd...Help-and-FAQ-s
Lots of good information, including how to post photos.

When you are posting and the cursor is in the position you want it do this

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...psae5acdf3.png

Then This
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...ps910273b1.png

Oh, I'm on my iPhone using tappatalk. It may just be a mobile limitation on this forum. Once I get home I will post the pic.

I'm sending my burris scope off since its covered under warrantee. I will switch to a near picitanny base with burris XTR rings in the process.

That way I can eliminate one more thing...

Stock bedding + potential scope wear and tear... Bedding is very important on a high recoil rifle. As is the grip of the rifle itself.

Dont forget action screw torque too.

Torque can be checked with a torque wrench (if the person owns one). But bedding or rifle grip ? No tool to measure that....

http://imageshack.us/a/img560/1945/i2oj.jpg

Here is the picture of the rifle in question... It's a great looking rifle, just wish it was more accurate.

Ok, so after removing the scope from the rifle I found a plastic shim in the front scope ring... Not only was it a poor shim... Made out of a hard plastic but the tube was also scuffed up pretty bad from over tightening on the rear ring. So I think I have tracked down the problem.

Looks like a backyard gunsmith attempt to level the scope?

New rings and base will be on the way! Also sent the scope out to Burris. So I should be all squared away once everything gets back.

Thanks for all the help. When you buy a used rifle and it isn't shooting as intended I know now to remove the scope to check for idiotic mistakes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983Weatherby

Ok, so after removing the scope from the rifle I found a plastic shim in the front scope ring... Not only was it a poor shim... Made out of a hard plastic but the tube was also scuffed up pretty bad from over tightening on the rear ring. So I think I have tracked down the problem.

Looks like a backyard gunsmith attempt to level the scope?

New rings and base will be on the way! Also sent the scope out to Burris. So I should be all squared away once everything gets back.

Thanks for all the help. When you buy a used rifle and it isn't shooting as intended I know now to remove the scope to check for idiotic mistakes.

---

before tapered bases became available we used to shim them all the time. im talking bases now not rings.
shimming rings is pretty common also but it should be done properly.
we used to have a beagle that would only chase 2 rabbits and then quit.
next day he would chase 2 more. maybe that approach would work for your gun.
a good group is a good group. no need to tell anybody how long it took. lol

A rifle with that much recoil as any other rifle would benifit from lapping the rings. I would want as much contact as I could get. You realy should try Warne Rings.

With the muzzle brake the recoil is about the same as a .270. It really isn't bad now. I will have my gunsmith make me a custom rail and go with either XTR burris rings or warne rings.

Ok, so I bought a EWR rail and warne quick detach rings in medium height. Now I just have to decide if I lap the rings myself or take it to a gunsmith.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983Weatherby

Ok, so I bought a EWR rail and warne quick detach rings in medium height. Now I just have to decide if I lap the rings myself or take it to a gunsmith.

---

im 78 years old. ive been using hunting scopes for about 60 years. untill just a couple
years back there was very little talk about lapping scope rings. but now im feeling
guilty because of never doing the right thing and lap scope rings. so last year i sent
to midway and bought a scope ring lapping kit. i couldnt wait till it arrived so i could start
making amends. the first set of rings i tried was perfect and didnt need lapping.
ditto for the second set. i have lots of guns and dont really want to remove all those scopes.
they seem to shoot ok anyway so im thinking about trying to get away without doing it.
at least i bought the tools. maybe i can just give a thumbs up when guys ask.
but then it would also give me an oppurtunity to install the scopes properly.

.

I meant EGW base. Sorry for the typo.

Yeah, on their site it states that you shouldn't have to lap the Warne rings. I wish I just had the Barstock alignment tool to check prior to mounting the scope.

I usually buy Burris Signature Zee Rings with the plastic inserts and then there is no concern about lapping rings at all. I have found these rings to hold the scope tight, never slip, and not leave rings in the scope tube when I have removed the scope.

Dave

id loan you mine but their 1200 miles away. in a couple weeks it wouldnt be a problem.
id be installing the base and ring bottoms. just lay the scope in and see how it feels.
chances are its perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983Weatherby

Ok, so I bought a EWR rail and warne quick detach rings in medium height. Now I just have to decide if I lap the rings myself or take it to a gunsmith.

---

You wont need to lap the Warne rings and they will never damage your scope tube. I should have stated that. You are going to love those rings!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by davemuzz

I usually buy Burris Signature Zee Rings with the plastic inserts and then there is no concern about lapping rings at all. I have found these rings to hold the scope tight, never slip, and not leave rings in the scope tube when I have removed the scope.

Dave

---

I tried these in the past couple years and they are now my standard ring to use. The inserts are fantastic for zeroing the scope without adjusting (except for the final fine tuning) allowing the scope to maintain clarity.

Ok, so the bad news is the tube is bent and since the scope is so old it is non repairable.

It's a Burris 6-24x44mm with a 1" tube. Has Forever warranty.

They are going to call me back later this week and give me options on what scopes I get to choose from.

I don't know much about Burris optics now a days other than they aren't built like they used to.

What would be an ideal optic replacement from Burris that I should try and get?

My existing scope doesn't have any fancy turrets. It has a fine plex reticle, and front parallax adjustment. Great in low light situations.

C4 Series 4.5-14x42mm 1" tube
Fullfield E1 6.5-20x50mm
Fullfield II - 6.5-20x50mm

Ok, just got back from the local gun store.... The fullfield series are junk IMO. Horrid eye relief. The glass isn't very good and just feels cheaply made.

I wasn't able to handle a c4 series, but did get my hands on a eliminator II 4-14 and the eye relief and glass were close to comparable. It has a built in range finder and turrets which would be an upgrade, but my old scope had 1/8" adjustments which were great for long distance shooting.

I would be willing to take a eliminator with less magnification to call the deal fair.

I will let everyone know how it works out. Hoping their customer service comes through.

Will be interested to see how this turns out, Matt.

pay the difference and get the Mtac.

Well a hunt is coming up in 3 weeks and I didn't want to chance it.

Bought a vortex 6.5-20x50mm PA.

Sighted it in today and it was a breeze. Wish I was a better shot. Using a bipod only at 100 yards I was able to get a .73 group.

Yeah you might want to work on those groups! you might easily miss at say 800 yards

Lol, I think it's because I was in a rush. I usually can do a 3 shot group at .30 when I take my time. This was pretty much back to back just to get it sighted for the hunt.

I'm going to step it out to 200 and 300 this weekend.

Ok, got word back from Burris. They are sending me a 6-24x44mm signature series with a ballistic mildot reticle.

So they came through a lot sooner than possible. Now I have to decide if I return the vortex or keep it.

The reason the Burris tube was bent was the person before me shimmed it wrong and used the wrong bases and mounts.

Burris is still sending me a replacement.

Awesome customer service!

Although I only have the one Mtac, I am impressed. My son had their Xtreme Tactical and all I can say is wow. It is good to know that the CS backs things up.

One thing that can cause accuracy problems & drive you nuts is the front action screw. If it is a hair to long & touching the bolt head lug. Check the lug & screw for rub marks.

Took it to the smith and had him check the barrel. It was pitted. He said he was surprised it shot as decent as it did.

Time for a new barrel.

I would not touch the barrel if it is shooting groups like you have posted
Jack

:focus:
Please remember this is the Optics and Mounts section.

This is a good thread and discussion about the problems with the scope and Burris customer service, but instead of wandering off topic, please start a new thread (in the appropriate section) to discuss barrel (or other) issues.

I too am interested in how this will all pan out. Please let us know how your hunt goes.

Ya I had a 300 rum do the same thing. My front action screw was way tight and I bedded it with some Devon. It'll shoot a consistent 3/4-7/8" with 210 bergers. I'd try that. Get a good inch pound torque wrench and bed it.

Received my signature select 6-24x44 burris scope today. It looks great!

Ok, got the scope mounted, torqued down and decided to use my laser bore sighter to get it sighted in at 25yards... For whatever reason I have only 12 clicks to the right before I have no more right windage to adjust! This is a brand new scope, new EGW one piece base, Burris XTR low rings. The elevation was right on from the factory.

I have no idea what to do at this point. Obviously something isn't right... The rifle is sitting in a bell and carlson medalist stock that has been bedded and free floated.

The only thing that makes sense at this point is the screws in the action aren't lined up correctly? I don't know what else to do at this point.

Actually, I had a vortex with same base but warne rings... Maybe it's the burris XTR rings?

Ok, took it to the range, had no where to start as I changed a lot of things on the gun so it's basically a new rifle that needs sighting in. I took it to 25 yards and got it on paper and then out to 100 yards. I was able to get it sighted in at 100 yards with 10 bullets.

Not great, but it's sighted in. All shots stayed within 1" of each other left to right and it tracked up and down good. I think my problem is solved!

It's a tack driver now. I was shooting 1/2" - 1" groups yeseterday. Problem solved!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 1983Weatherby

Hello everyone, I seem to shoot 2 consistent groups. IE: two shots will cut and then the next two will cut, but be an inch lower in the exact same pattern. I can't tell if its me flinching consistently or of it is the optics or mounts?

I have the rifle bedded in a bell and Carlson medalist stock with aluminum bedding block. It's a 300wby cartridge.

Optics are burris 6-24x44 signature scope. It has their forever warrantee.

I am not sure on the base and rings as I bought the rifle used.

It still shoots sub MOA, but if that issue was able to get squared away I should be able to shoot a 4 shot group at .30" instead of 1.0" at 100 yards. I have tried different hand loads and it doesn't seem to matter. I can never get all 4 to cut. They are always the same pattern, just the second 2 are ALWAYS 1" low.

Once I get enough posts to attach a picture I will.

---

Your original post says the rifle is bedded in a Bell&Carlson stock. Do you mean that you also used bedding in addition to being screwed to the aluminum bedding block?

Disregard last post. I missed a few posts when reading thread.