Am i the only person

Am I the only person in the world that can not get a 308 Win to shoot good?For a little back ground read "Someone Please Explain".
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...please-explain
I spent time over the last few days loading rounds at 43 grns. of IMR 4895, 155 SMK at seating depths from 0.030 to 0.065 off the lands,all previous were from 0.005 - 0.025. The results were horrendous at this point I am even to disgusted to meassure them(that bad),all with a custom barrel with a 1:12 twist done just for the 155grn. bullet.
My uneducated guess is this is just a bad barrel,reason being it started life as a 30BR that would not group so it was rechambered to 308 and it still won't shoot. After close to 200 rounds trying to get something decent out to 200 yards this is coming off the action and will be replaced with either a Shilen or a Criterion, undecided what caliber 243 or 308, bull barrel.
What realy burns me is I have a factory 20" model 10 LE that shoots under .85@200 with little load work up.
At my wits end, I just can't figure out what is wrong.
I won't divulge the brand of the barrel in an open forum because some how I feel I must be doing something wrong so I won't trash the makers.

Try a different bullet. I never could get that bullet to shoot well in any of the 4 308win I have owned. Try 168gr bullets. I really like the Hornady A-Max.

My Son's model 12 fcp-k 308 like just about anything around 165 or 168 gr. and you can interchange bullets and it doesn't make any difference.

My savage 10 with sporter barrel gave me hell. Could not get anything under 1.5" so put a Shilen on there and am excited about the initial load work up. Around .40"groups at 100

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Originally Posted by tomme boy

Try a different bullet. I never could get that bullet to shoot well in any of the 4 308win I have owned. Try 168gr bullets. I really like the Hornady A-Max.

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Ditto. I talked with a "famous" rifle builder to get some hints, and he said the #1,2,and 3 most important factors for a good load is to find the bullet the rifle likes. To test a new rifle build, he shoots 2 bullets and if not decent moves on to a different bullet; he says don't waste time trying to make a bullet shoot. Sounds like you need to move on.

PM Sent

my shilen liked 168 gr shot them good but when i switched 155 amax's it really woke up i seperate my bullets by ogive .
the load is
46.0 gr varget
fed gm210m primers
lapua brass
seated 2.218 measured to ogive
comes out at 2925 fps

as usual work up to it and check for sighn's of pressure

lal357: I was trying to decide whether I want to try the 155amax good to hear you had good results

I had a 243 that I had over 500 rounds through it befor I finally stumbled on the majic bullet
and powder combo...so don;t give up....my 308 shoots the 175 SMK's the best of any..
but mine is a 1 in 10 twist....Good luck

My favorite load for the 155g bullet is 45g of IMR 4895 with a CCI large rifle primer. That load has worked really well in a wide variety of rifles.

I am not gonna ask a bout the scope and all that stuff...My question is? Did you buy this rifle new or used?

If I were you the first thing I would do was if you have a gun smith in your area is to
have him take a look at the crown....Sometimes that is the problem and a simple
fix and a cheap fix....Good luck...

This is a rifle put together from parts.Model 12 single shot, SSS recoil lug,22" select grade barrel,Savage "tiger Shark" stock, Burris bases and rings,20x SS scope(known to be good).
Shooting from a fixed bench using custom front rest(16lbs) protector rear bag.
Method 3-5 rounds wait 10 minutes shoot again.All groups if you want to call them groups are horizontal @200. The barrel is floated as is the tang and everything is tight and secure.The barrel crown does not catch any fibers from a q tip so I have to think it is good.
Like I have stated I have pretty much run out of things to try, I even talk with the guy at Sierra and he seems to think the 155's should be fine and that there is something else going on.
I may try again in a few days but first I need to clear my head so I can start over.

delete post

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/d...08rifle001.jpg

shot this 5 shot group today with my 308 20 inch barrel-1 in 10 twist 41.3 grains of reloader 15

175 gr SMK Brass full length sized Federal match primers 250 yards F class distance

I would suspect most of your problem lies in the stock. The stock that you mentioned is not a bag friendly stock to start with, and then coupled with a .308, it would make it naturally harder to shoot.

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Originally Posted by sharpshooter

I would suspect most of your problem lies in the stock. The stock that you mentioned is not a bag friendly stock to start with, and then coupled with a .308, it would make it naturally harder to shoot.

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All right I could possibly understand this but if this is/were the problem why will it shoot fantastic at 100 same stock same rest?
When this was chambered for 30br it was in a VLP stock and I was having the same problems gun would not group.

Is the barrel floated on this rifle? Mine is floated all the way to the recoil lug..I can slide 4 sheets of
paper under it.....Are you getting the barrel too hot? I wish I could look at it.....What twist is this barrel?

Barrel floated to lug,12 twist 22" heavy varmint,10 min. between shot strings.
Going to take apart again to check everything one more time, going to scrub the barrel out again even though the last time it was copper free and then maybe start over depending on what I find.I might even take some of the loads that are made for my stock rifle that I know shoot good at 200 and see what happens.

On a rare case or two, I've seen powder changes(brands) affect a truly horizontal group. Almost 100% of the time(if the rifle is set up normally) it will be in the bedding.
Even if it was caused by almost anything else, the group would open up but it wouldn't he horizontal, it would still be rounded.

Again, if it's bedded, especially under the chamber and is not square across the stock it will string horizontal. If it's bedded correctly then the barrel could be touching on one side when the barrel vibrates.
If it's not bedded, then bed it and then try it. Posting some shot targets would help us help you.

rjtfroggy, after everything you have tried and what others have recommended, I would also look at the stock as causing the problem. As skypilot recommended, look at the bedding between stock and action. Are there aluminum bedding pillars? Is the barrel free floated enough so that when the fore end is resting on a bag the weight of the barrel is not causing some irregular contact with the stock? Are the receiver screws tightened to the correct inch/lbs of torque? Were the receiver screws tightened in the sequence recommended by Savage? If there is a rear trigger guard screw, is it tightened too much?

As we all know, sometimes it is the simple things which create problems often driving us nuts.

Good luck.

Just a thought, just went through the ordeal of finding the right twist on a new barrel. so this is fresh in my mind. The theory is the lighter the bullet the slower the twist. The heavier the bullet the faster the twist. A standard 308 comes w/a 1-10 twist. Heavy bullets require a 1-9 twist. So a 1-12 should be somewhere near the bottom of the light bullets. My 110fp in 308 loved 110gr semi jacketed hollow points. A 1-12 should really do well. My 2c

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Originally Posted by karlrudin

Just a thought, just went through the ordeal of finding the right twist on a new barrel. so this is fresh in my mind. The theory is the lighter the bullet the slower the twist. The heavier the bullet the faster the twist. A standard 308 comes w/a 1-10 twist. Heavy bullets require a 1-9 twist. So a 1-12 should be somewhere near the bottom of the light bullets. My 110fp in 308 loved 110gr semi jacketed hollow points. A 1-12 should really do well. My 2c

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Yes ^

Also consider loading those short bullets at the sierra Load book OAL. Like 2.750 or something rather than the 2.870 or whatever you are trying.

A 1-10 twist will stabilize any bullet the 308 can safely push. The 1-12 will work for most bullets up to 190 gr and in some rifles may work for heavier bullets.

Sorry I have not been keeping up with the threads but it has been a tough 2 weeks here. A death in my immediate family, guest from Florida staying through the funeral and now trying to get our house somewhat back to normal. Still alot of paper work and phone calls to make but that is just time consuming and can be done when we feel like doing some.
I did finally do some brass prep and have 50 rounds ready to load also got the OAL meassured with the Sinclair tool so now I need to decide whether to continue with this barrel or just go with a different set up completely, kind of tired of throwing $$$ at this with no return satisfaction.
Thanks for all the ideas and I will keep everyone posted.

RJ, my condolences 1st and foremost.

You got me to thinking, and I checked my .243 with the sinclair and it generally was similiar to your issues and measurements with your .308. I load developed Thurs. with an COAL of 2.858" to lands. Reload manual SAAMI says 2.710 COAL."

I loaded to 2.838" COAL(.020" off lands) and what a difference it made at 160 yds(furtherest I could shoot due to cattle). I had been having issues with this sporter, similar to your frustration with the .308.

In my case at least, I believe bedding the action, bedding just past the barrel nut and loading longer than SAAMI has gotten mine on path to being a shooter.

Skypilot thank you.
My measurements came out to an average 3.088 with the Sinclair so I will start at 3.048 going off Freds advice of .040 jump.May also try a few at 2.775 Sierra's COAL just to satisfy my own curiosity. I am only going to load 5 of each to see what happens, if no luck then either a different barrel or a different caliber altogether.
As for the 12 twist to answer others that is what is used for the 150-155 grn. bullets for palma shooting also the 13 twist just depends on manufactor. I shoot the 150's out of my Mod. 10LE 10 twist and it stays well under moa @ 100 and right at 1" @200.

The tiger shark looks cool but is useless in the accuracy game.You can get one from kevin rayhill at stockade stocks or sss has a nice design and joel russo if you love wood.

if it started as a 30 br do you know for sure the twist rate? most 30br are 17 and 18 so anything above a 125 gr bullet wouldnt be so good specially if running hot, if you are not sure of twist , put your cleaning rod in with a brush or patch whatever will make rod spin , mark rod at top and start the rod in count how many rotations it makes till the tip hits the end of barrel so if you have 24 inch barrel and it rotates 3 times then 24 divided by 3= 8 that would be 1/8 twist, it really helps to know twist rate.

Jonbearman-I shot my best score at a match using this stock with a 223 @100 yards this year and in this stock this same 223 is .2-.3 everytime out, so that is why I personaly doubt it is a stock issue.

Frank1947 this is not an off the shelf barrel it was custom ordered as a 30br then when after numerous times trying to get it to group it was rechambered to 308, unfortunately with the same results.

It is all a moot point now because a new barrel is enroute to me as I type.
I will be calling the barrel maker later today just to hear thier opinion.

****,I hope you get the mystery solved...I think it is the twist..Just because it was rechambered means nothing
the twist will be the same as befor..But you know that..I for one am excited to hear about it after it's all said and
done...And sorry for your loose....God be with you and your family..John

Stop cleaning the barrel! The most you should do is run a dry patch down it. I have seen a few rifles that would not group until they had 50-75 rounds down the barrel.

nice to see another tiger shark stock in use mine was a 308 origonaly and is now a 223 f class gun my son shoots (if i'm nice he will let me shoot it after all it is mine) . the only problem i have had with the stock is it doesnt like sitting in a rear rest well i finally found a rest at bass proshop that works well and it will consistantly put 5 shots into 3/4 @ 300 now .i use to think it was the barrel when it was a 308 but realized that it wasnt steady in the rear and as a result it would not group that well the problem was the cut out in the rear side of the stock would let it wiggle i tried different bags and the one that worked for me was thier 20.00 leather unfilled filled till it just about burst with sand.

as for cleaning the barrel each barrel is different my 223 CBI barrel can go 300 rnds before groups open up while my shilen i clean every 200 you will just have to shoot it until you see the groups opening up and then clean you will find a pattern.