Extractor/Ejector kits: Factory vs. Kinney’s vs. Lumley. W/pictures.

I’ve used the Kinney’s Extractor/Ejector kit for years. But I wanted to see how the Lumley kit stacked up, and also both compared to factory. I just received the Lumley kit and went to install today. Here are my findings.

The three Extractors. From left to right: Factory, Kinney’s, Lumley. You can see how the Kinney’s & Lumley are both enhanced. However, the Lumley appears to be a nicer part. More care was taken in the machining. It also has the most hook of the three. But, interestingly enough, the dished hole on the bottom for the bearing ball, is smallest in the Lumley.
https://i.ibb.co/2MQBDmd/DE550504-CE...-B43880623.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/BwN787H/D48334-A8-5...7-ACA854-D.jpg

Here are the Bearing Balls for each, again left to right: Factory, Kinney’s, Lumley. The Factory steel ball measures .123”. The Lumley’s is .137”. & the Kinney’s is slightly larger at .1395”.
https://i.ibb.co/y4rkBdT/660-E53-A7-...-D1-BB8021.jpg

Now the Ejectors. And here’s where I ran into a problem. The three left to right, Factory, Kinney’s, Lumley. Both the Kinney’s & Lumley are machined steel, very nice. The Lumley also added the spring keeper & is TIN coated. (The gold color), a nice touch.
https://i.ibb.co/djvWY7W/0-AEC91-C4-...656-F6-C55.jpg

However, when I installed it, I noticed it was a bit loose in the hole in the Bolt Head. And it was leaning to the side so just enough that sometimes the edge would catch the face surface of the bolt head, jamming the Ejector from going down into the hole. In the picture below, you can just see the cutout of the Ejector fir the stop pin, above the surface of the bolt head. This was a shame because I love the attention they put into the Ejector. Beautifully machined and the spring keeper, man what a great little thought.
https://i.ibb.co/1GHTPWK/24423298-A6...7-C1-E2908.jpg

And this is why. I believe just this little bit extra like the Kinney’s Ejector, would have made the difference. Also, the Kinney’s Ejector measured .136 in diameter, while the Lumley measures .131”. This too really got me. I know it’s just .005”. But with these tiny parts that little bit can make or brake the working performance.
https://i.ibb.co/VWnw54L/97-BF0923-E...F84-D79571.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hg3HBkx/972-AE978-1...42555-E075.jpg

Finally the springs. Left to Right: Factory, Kinney’s, Lumley. While the Kinney’s Ejector spring is the shortest, it’s actually the thickest wire diameter and heaviest. Even though the the Lumley’s has two, and the one is very long, it’s not the heaviest however, I do believe it would work fine. As for the Extractor springs, the Lumley’s Gold spring is the heaviest. But the Kinney’s was very close.
https://i.ibb.co/zm6Tygb/E430-CE4-A-...9-CD541-EB.jpg

In the end here is what I did. I kept the Kinney’s Ejector & Spring. I think the Lumley will likely work fine, even with that slight bit I found. Or maybe it’s just the one I got. In any case, I’m not gonna try it because I have the Kinney’s Ejector, and it launches brass out the ejection port! I did use the Lumley Extractor, Gold spring & steel ball. The Lumley Extractor was best machined of the three. And the large claw for the brass is nice.
https://i.ibb.co/k2fd80n/5-E2-A0-A29...3-D5092-AF.jpg

Another nice touch with the Lumley kit is it came with a new Ejector stop pin. The Kinney’s kit does not include that. Factory pin on Left, Lumley on Right.
https://i.ibb.co/WgCC7Tg/06-ACCD23-4...1-EC2-DEFD.jpg

Nice writeup. Thanks for the info and comparisons.

Nice job Dave. Should help out a lot of people searching for info.

Now if you can do a tutorial for mag lip adjustments most of the common questions asked will be covered…I did like the link you added to the one thread though of the guy adjusting and measuring as he went. About as good a tutorial as it gets IMO.

Yeah, I believe there are plenty of good tutorials on Magazine feed lip adjustment. But here’s something else as for Bolt Head parts replacement. I always replace Extractor with a plastic bag around the bolt head. Remember, I have one hand to use, so I need to be extra cautious!
https://i.ibb.co/XCS4Bmf/8-E7-E3-C86...D924-B9-F0.jpg

And when one or all the parts jump away from your hand…. they’ll be neatly sitting in the bag.
https://i.ibb.co/Qn1Bwrm/BB1-DAD0-F-...11365-ACF0.jpg

I always use a bag as well. If not those detent balls are almost impossible to find

LOL, I tend to use towels for the same reason. When working on sewing machines it has saved my behind several times.

A clock maker showed me his setup one day. His apron was tacked to the bench. When he sat down he put the 'loop' over his head so anything that fell of fell on the leather apron.

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Originally Posted by pdog06

I always use a bag as well. If not those detent balls are almost impossible to find

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Its why I bought a bag of 50 .135s years ago. I only ever found one, it flew in the air and landed in my coffee!:p

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Its why I bought a bag of 50 .135s years ago. I only ever found one, it flew in the air and landed in my coffee!:p

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Bill, did you notice any of what saw with the Ejectors in the Lumley kits you received?

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Bill, did you notice any of what saw with the Ejectors in the Lumley kits you received?

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Dave I only used the longer of the two.
The smaller OD of their ejectors may be a blessing in disguise. Before installing the one in the 260 I cleaned both the ejector and exactor bores with pipe cleaners and Gun Scrubber. The first pass the white pipe cleaners came out as black as Pa coal mine which appeared to be a mixture of powder residue other assorted crud. After passes two and three........

How would that buildup crap affected a better fitting extractor and spring? Would have restricted the ejector's length of travel, dampened the spring's pressure on it?

I’m not sure I quite explained it enough. The problem is the upper portion of the ejector, right after the cutout for the stop pin was catching on the surface of the bolt face. At the top of the ejector hole. The Kinney’s ejector also has plenty of room in the hole, but the upper portion is extended several thousandths for than the Lumley. As I was pressing on the Lumley Ejector while it was installed, it would easily bind up as I outlined. But apparently yours is not behaving the same? So I don’t know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

I’m not sure I quite explained it enough. . As I was pressing on the Lumley Ejector while it was installed, it would easily bind up as I outlined. But apparently yours is not behaving the same? So I don’t know.

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The only I did before installing the Lumley was giving the ejector, it's bore and spring a "light" coating of BF CLP

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Originally Posted by BillPa

The only I did before installing the Lumley was giving the ejector, it's bore and spring a "light" coating of BF CLP

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Yeah, we’re just not connecting Bill. I’m not concerned with what you did before install or anything. I wonder, are you able to take a close up picture of the Ejector in your bolt head the exact way I took the picture below? A picture of yours would answer my question.

http://www.savageshooters.com/blob:h...e-a0b1de57cc45https://i.ibb.co/1GHTPWK/24423298-A6...7-C1-E2908.jpg

Dave, I have one or two of the factory new style ejectors. I'll have to measure their ODs and compare them to Lumley's. Or better yet use one of them in place of Lumley's.
Unfortunately since Tiny Pic went belly up I'm unable to post pictures and haven't taken the time to find another one. Too many pans on the fire!

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Dave, I have one or two of the factory new style ejectors. I'll have to measure their ODs and compare them to Lumley's. Or better yet use one of them in place of Lumley's.
Unfortunately since Tiny Pic went belly up I'm unable to post pictures and haven't taken the time to find another one. Too many pans on the fire!

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The site I use. https://imgbb.com/
Completely free, NO sigh up or email. Very easy to use: Upload pictures from your source. Once done, click the picture & copy the BBCode from the available links. Then simply paste the copied link in the thread reply. It will post as a link, but show up as a full size picture once you finish your thread reply.

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Originally Posted by BillPa

Dave, I have one or two of the factory new style ejectors. !

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I thought for sure I had one or two the new style factory ejectors lay'n around here. When Joe D was customer service manager at Savage he sent me four of them to try but I may have installed them in some of the other bolts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillPa

I thought for sure I had one or two the new style factory ejectors lay'n around here. When Joe D was customer service manager at Savage he sent me four of them to try but I may have installed them in some of the other bolts.

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Sorry Bill, I wasn’t concerned with the factory Ejector. I thought you were using a Lumley Ejector? I was only interested in how the Lumley Ejector fit in & worked in your Bolt head. Again, NOT the Factory. Aren’t you using the same Lumley kit I have show here?

Good thread Dave, I'm about to venture on this myself with my new build using the PTG bolt head,:cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dave Hoback

Bill, did you notice any of what saw with the Ejectors in the Lumley kits you received?

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Dave, the only difference I noticed with Lumley's their tips are cut/machined flat instead of tapered or rounded. Now, my old feeble way of thunk'n tells me more of the ejector with a flat tip can stay in contact with a case head when extracting whereas one with tapered / rounded tip tends to allow a case to roll off before it clears the lug race to be tossed across a room!
The slop? I seem to recall its the reason for the Savage "floating" bolt heads.

It’s ok Bill. I’m not referring to the play between the bolt head and sleeve. Yes, that’s completely normal. I’ll just try running the Lumley to see. Sometimes what happens operating a firearm by hand isn’t what takes place in actual operation. I’ll report back.

Well, I tried it. And it was exactly as I had feared. When chambering a round using the Lumley Ejector, it jams up/wind chamber. Rather, the Bolt won’t close all the way. The Ejector gets caught up right on the surface of the bolt face as I predicted. The picture below I enlarged & circled the offending area in Red. It’s easy to see how the cut out part of the Ejector is above the bolt face, and it catches & stops right there. So the round is unable to push the Ejector into the hole. So back to the Kinney’s Ejector. However; the Lumley Extractor works perfectly.

https://i.ibb.co/cYmVPjt/FF7-B44-C3-...B26-E3-F11.jpg

That sucks!!

Here it really shows the issue. He’s, I’m disappointed because I love the design & the attention put into it with the TiN PVD coating & the spring keeper tail. I think maybe it was just this specific kit with the Ejector I received, being machined a bit off. Because others are using them without the Ejector doing the same. And again, the Lumley Extractor, springs & the steel ball I received all work flawlessly. And I’m using the Extra for!

But in this pic can really see how far it’s able to lean and the shelf sitting high above the bolt face surface easily able to catch the edge of the hole.
https://i.ibb.co/NCbwPC3/A5-EEAD31-F...D292845630.jpg

Compared to the Kinney’s having the shelf extend down into the hole, the cutout for the stop pin is not machined too high so the shelf is not above the surface. Also, the diameter is a bit thicker on the Kinney’s at .099”, while the Lumley’s Ejector diameter is .0945”.
https://i.ibb.co/cvmkC99/AA118-CBB-8...C7-F1-FB40.png

Wow Dave., that first one is way undersized,the ejector bore oversized or both I took a quick look at the Lumley's I put in the two bolt heads and neither one had nearly that much slop. As far a function after cleaning the ejector bores and the CLP treatment even the first pieces of brass ejected with the Lumley's. Did you happen to measure the ejector bore in that bolt head?

I'd rip one of mine apart but I fighting another demon at the moment. It seems my truck has a random parasitic draw which kills the battery in a matter of matter of few hours. When I say random it may kill the battery today, tomorrow or next week. No tell'n why or when! Dang new contraptions!:mad:

The ejector bore in the bolt head is fine. Both the factory & Kinney’s Ejectors operate normally. The second picture is the bolt head using with the Kinney’s Ejector. Can see it operates perfectly.

Ahhhh… parasitic draw problems! I was always really good at tracking those down in my profession as a master auto tech.

Dave,
Thanks for the info on bolt parts.
The ejector I got from Midway is like the one with the short upper section/long slot.
Potential to get hung up?

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Originally Posted by Rocketvapor

Dave,
Thanks for the info on bolt parts.
The ejector I got from Midway is like the one with the short upper section/long slot.
Potential to get hung up?
Attachment 10173

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Rocketvapor, the link you posted is invalid. Regardless, won’t be able to predict correct operation from simply looking at the Ejector. Now, if it’s installed and looks like the picture I have with the Lumley installed, it certainly could. Again though, can’t see your link.

If you are referring to this Ejector, it should be fine. That’s a factory Ejector.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1005114862?pid=117919

Got rid of the attachment (I think).
Here's the parts I have.
The 'Factory' Ejector from Midway shows the gap when installed.
Should be able to click for full size pic.
Attachment 10176

Yes, now I can see. Is that picture of your bolt head, or from online? Even though it’s above the surface, it looks like it’s running true. Straight in the hole. The Ejector in my Bolt Head was cocked at quite a bit of an angle causing it to grab the edge. All I can say is try it out & see. In mine the jam was immediate! And it was every time.

That's the left hand 223 bolt head that I probably won't use now that the 22N barrel came in and I have another complete 223 bolt.
Was going to use it without an ejector.
I wonder if a little radius on that edge would help?

Like I said, I would just try it. It’s not something to worry about. I mean it’s not a potential problem; if not something that will work today & become a problem tomorrow. If it’s a problem it will a problem immediately. It will either jam up or not jam up. It’s really that simple.