Anybody laid hands on the new Savage KLYM yet?
Any idea of actual street pricing?
Looks like a really slick lightweight and I cant wait to handle one.
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p...ummary&s=58097
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Anybody laid hands on the new Savage KLYM yet?
Any idea of actual street pricing?
Looks like a really slick lightweight and I cant wait to handle one.
https://www.savagearms.com/content?p...ummary&s=58097
Personally, If I was going for ultra light, I’d just get a cheaper 110 & stick it in an MDT HNT26 CF chassis. End up around the same weight & have a better stock, while saving $600-$800 in the process. Then just wait until a new change is needed & if absolutely wanted, go with a Carbon Fiber barrel then. Although I’ve never been sold on CF barrels. It’s more cost effective to simply do a thinner profile. Same weight savings with nothing lost.
HA! It even has a CF Bolt Knob! LOL! I’ve thought of making those.
I looked up the company that makes those stocks, nothing for savage listed on their site
Yeah cutting weight in itself can be accomplished through multiple methods.
Cutting weight and keeping things balanced and feeling right is a little different.
Heck I chopped a sporter down to 16" barrel length and cut the length of pull down to 12" and like the way it feels and its super handy.
It's one of my favorite builds but one of these new carbon fiber 110s it aint.
I just want to handle one of these and give it the once over, check out the feel and balance. It would also be nice to shoot one but probably a real slim chance of that.
I love the look of the stock with the ambidextrous thumbhole. That grip looks like it offers control and possibly some recoil reduction between the rifle and the shoulder.
I like the look and really like the lines lines a whole lot better than the "Robo rifle" looking chassis guns.
Maybe not as modular or adjustable as a Robo chassis rifle but...
I think that KLYM rifle is "OOH LA LA".
I've seen the promo videos and it looks like Savage is riding the carbon fiber wave with both turn and straight bolt rifles.
I tried to find an American manufacturer to make me a CF stock for one of my Impulse Predators, but none would take the job and it's a real shame that an American rifle manufacturer has to use a stock maker from overseas.
I've been waiting for a Raven CF stock for my Blaser R8 to arrive, so my Impulse predators will just have to wait awhile to make them more svelte.
SJC
I will probably see it in February at the Harrisburg Outdoor Expo. Savage always has a huge setup there with just about every gun they offer,
Sure it’ll have a stout price tag.
Hopefully with the introduction of a new model rifle Savage has addressed the long standing issues surrounding magazines, bolt lift, and extraction/ejection functionalities. Personally would like to see the need for bolt lift and extraction/ejection kits go away.
Sorry to bare bad news, but unfortunately it’s using the same 110 Action which has been with us for a long time. Factory mag troubles, heavy bolt lift & all.
I don’t mind as I’m a DIY’er. So improvement is fun. However I know many simply wish to get in & go.
I read/saw somewhere that Savage redesigned the bolt with dual ejectors and a claw type extractor for the KLYM 110, but can't find where I read/saw it.
Do they expect someone to pay $2.5k for a rifle you'll need to upgrade out of the box ?
At least the Impulse model won't have those issues.
" Do they expect someone to pay $2.5K for a rifle you`ll need to upgrade out of the box? " Precisely. That`s absurd IMHO. No thanks for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoots100
Overall i like the 5.9 LBS, the aesthetics of the new bolt and the possibility that it might be less grabby than the fluting of the Lightweight hunter, and Ultralites i have. I don't know anything about the stock, but it looks like it will be more rigid than the current stocks, and that is a good thing. The Proof Carbon barrels are just a winner. I have them on my 3 Ultralites, my Proof Elevation and two custom rifles. They are just as accurate as my Shilen Select Match barrels and half of the weight.
BUT... That kind of pricing is really insane. I paid less than that MSRP by hundreds for my Proof Research Elevation, and it has the same Proof Research Carbon Barrels, and a carbon fiber stock, and a Zermat Origin action.
Indeed! $2500+ buys one of many higher end hunting rifles. Or, a custom could be built with Titanium Action & Proof barrel.
For $1000 less, a Sako of similar appearance can be purchased. Which is believe is what Savage is trying to emulate & hoping the Proof barrel is enough to sway people. I’m skeptical.
Attachment 10149
Now, I’m not a huge fan of Sako rifles, but I do know of their exquisite feel & function. Coupled with it being a third less the price of the Savage and the choice is weighed heavily in its favor. I love Savage rifles. But my fondness lies in the Action & being able to easily build as I desire, with the components I choose. The performance aspect to me, is equal to the joy I’m given in building/tinkering with & such. Even with my fondness for the Savage Action, spending $2500 on a rifle I didn’t build won’t happen. But, that’s just me.
I’m Sure Savage has heard people are buying Ultralites at that cost and still spending more on a better stock for it. I’m very glad to see the diamond fluted bolt body. Looks like it shouldn’t grab like the spiral fluted one.
Me personally, I don’t really care for a thumbhole stock with the Savage tang safety for hunting situations where a quick shot may be needed. Not everyone hunts in $3000 box blinds …lol
I think a conversation with the head of marketing for Savage concerning the rationale behind offering this model (and the pricing ) would be REAL interesting. Just one guy`s opinion, and then I`ll shut up about it, but I wish they`d sunk the product development costs for this gun into engineering/ functionality improvements for the models they ALREADY produce instead.
Maybe at the February outdoor show I will throw some info/complaints at the Savage rep and see if he takes that info back to Savage. Although it’s not like they don’t already know.
Maybe I will make a post and people can add their complaints and I can make a list and hand it to him.
But they keep making money and adding new rifles makes it flashy and appealing. For the general public they don’t wanna hear that they’re selling the same old rifles but they’ve updated and fixed some long overdue issues.
Or I can not say anything, enjoy my day, and keep on buying them and working on them like I like to do. Like Dave, I’m a tinkerer and can’t leave anything alone for long, and building them is almost as much fun as shooting them.
I doubt we'll see these shipping to dealers before the first of the year - more than likely it will be April/May before they hit dealers and I'm betting most won't even stock them at that price so you'd be looking at having a dealer order one in sight unseen. Definitely won't be a high volume production model at that price either. Maybe 500-1000 units at most is my guess, especially since they're outsourcing the stock and we all know how slow stock makers tend to be when it comes to hand-laid stocks.
Personally I'd rather just buy another 110 Lightweight Storm that 's lighter and is $1,800 cheaper.
LOL, maybe you`d consider passing on those complaints/suggestions as a gesture of kindness to all of us Savage fans who are mechanically challenged to whatever degree (?)! Unfortunately, there are those of us that lack the equipment, know how,and/ or the guts ( I got it apart, now how the hell do it get back together again so that it works? ) to do much, if any, tinkering!Quote:
Originally Posted by pdog06
It comes down to understanding one’s own limitations. Those of us who build, fix & tinker, didn’t start out last week…or even a year ago. I’m 45 and I’ve been tinkering/upgrading firearms for over 20 years. I built my first firearm in 2005. For anyone looking for a built Savage and you don’t want to go to a gunsmith, look for a home builder in your area and ask! But don’t expect Savage to do anything for you!. Given some of the things they’ve done in the last few years, while continuing to ignore the same old problems for the last 60 years makes me think they lose their minds by working there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Turkeytider
Thanks Dave. Being 75, I have a pretty good bead on those personal limitations! I actually have done some minor work on some of my shotguns, but nothing that required equipment any more sophisticated than a screwdriver and a pair of pliers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Anything at all approaching even somewhat complex would go to a smith.
That`s a sad commentary you make concerning Savage`s lack of responsiveness to its customers. Something we`ve discussed before. It may truly catch up with them some time in the future.
If Savage redesigned the 110 KLYM bolt and magazine to extract, eject and feed reliably, it would be worth the cost.
If not, there are tested lightweight turn bolt rifles out there for the same price or cheaper ready to go out of the box.
I've built enhanced 110 lightweight stainless/carbon fiber rig's to almost the same specs for under $2k that I guarantee to be fully operational.
The Impulse KYLM is a different story, as the closest factory straight pull rifle with all of those features, but without the ability to swap the bolt handle for left hand use is $10k+.
The bare bones piecemealed Blaser R8 professional I put together with a Raven CF stock is $5k.
Add another $2k for a CF barrel.
SJC
Good post. (Except about the Impulse. I’m not a fan. I think straight pulls are an answer to a question that Nobody asked! I’m still trying to figure out what exactly it is they do better:confused: But that’s just me & I digress.)
Jim said it perfectly. You want/need a lightweight rig, grab a 110 Lightweight Storm. It’s like 6.5oz lighter than this KLYM & you’ll save yourself $1800 bucks! You like the stock? Take some of that saved $1800 & get a similar one. Then just plan on getting a Proof CF when you do a rebarrrel.
What the heck is Savage thinking? Only a die hard Savage fan or an idiot would pay $2k+ for a Savage action rifle. There are dozen's of Custom rifle's that can be had for that price, and they have non of the problems that a Savage action gives you out of the box.
I consider straight pulls like lever actions. When you can't have (or don't want) a semi-auto but you still want a 'fast' action.
They were popular in Germany when I was stationed there. I figured it had something to do with their rules. I know the hunter qualification course included some fairly fast moving targets.
Savage has survived a long time even while shooting themselves in the foot. I don't understand their reasoning, but, maybe someone does. FWIW, if I look at gun shelves I'll see 10 or 20 of the lower end Savages and every now and then I'll see on of the more expensive, usually one of the chassis guns. I suspect for every 1000 Axis they sell they will sell one KLYM.
After spending the money for the BVSS I know I won't do that again.
FWIW, because of the good experience that I`ve had with my 110 Storm in .223 (once I worked through some magazine/feeding issues. Must be a right of passage for anyone buying a Savage rifle) and 93R17, I went ahead and purchased a Model 12 LRPV for my first range gun. It`s a well made, accurate shooter IMO. I paid $1,400 for that gun brand new. I wouldn`t pay a penny more than that for a Savage rifle, and I`m pretty sure I wouldn`t have to hunt very hard to find folks who would say I was nuts to pay that for ANY Savage rifle. If I`m going to spend 2K+ for a rifle, there are just too many better options out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Txhillbilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by Txhillbilly
Ok, :o Maybe let’s ease up a bit. We don’t need to refer to people with disparaging comments because of their choices. While I do think it’s a waste of money, I’m not going to call someone an idiot for their decision. Granted, I also believe spending several thousand $$ on Glass is wasteful as well. Spending $3K, $4K or even $5K or more, does nothing to improve accuracy over an already working optic. However, I’m not going to call someone a name for their choice in buying whatever.
Agree. Let`s not go down the same road as another well known, long range shooting web site goes down on pretty much daily basis when it comes to personally disparaging folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
I agree, it's the same way I feel about turn bolt rifle fanatics using 200 year old rifle technology, but to each his own.:blah:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoots100
LOL! Do you think the Straight Pull is so much more modern? If so, I suggest you do some more research. The Bolt Action & Straight Pull Rifles were made roughly 50 years apart- Both still in the 19th century! So, is your contention that 200 year old tech is prehistoric, but 150 year old, well now that is somehow cutting edge?
We know the Impulse KLYM is ready to go out of the box, can we say the same for the 110 KLYM turn bolt ?
That’s a fair point. But that wasn’t your argument. You simply said we were “Turn Bolt Fanatics using 200 year old rifle technology.” And I simply answered that the Straight Pull is 150 year old technology.
But now you are changing your argument to the Impulse being able to work correctly out of the box & the 110 will not, correct? Well, the 110 may have issues & it may not. However, what we know is all issues, whatever they may be, can be remedied. And it stands to reason than many more Savage 110’s function just fine when new, than those which have problems. If you are happy with your out of the box Impulse, I’m happy for you. I would not be. I’m quite happy with my hand built & extensively modified Model 10. With its wonderful 200 year old Turn Bolt it functions beautifully. Having minimal bolt lift which cost me little more than my time working on it. Not to mention all modifications performed were a pleasure for me, as I look at the hands on aspect as being part of the hobby. I know you have also performed modifications to your Impulse. And I commend you for it. I’m not against the Impulse. It simply does nothing for me. It’s just not a 110. Doesn’t have the rich history & extensive background of the 110. Being the oldest rifle still produced in the United States. Having seen extensive combat. And being the first rifle to utilize a barrel nut. A system so long being frowned upon, and now many franchises taking advantage of the same system. All these things mean something to me.
But it’s ok if we disagree. I only ask that you take care in spreading incorrect historical tech. :tea:
Anyone with any common sense who's looking to spend $2,700 on an ultralite rifle isn't going to be looking at a Savage. For that kind of money you can get a Browning X-Bolt Mountain Pro SPR, a Christiansen Arms Ridgeline FFT, a Kimber Mountain Ascent, a Seekins Havak Element, or for just a few hundred more go the full custom route with a titanium 700-clone action, proof barrel and CF stock. The 110 action as-delivered just doesn't match up to these similarly priced options IMO. I'll throw my prediction out there now - both these rifles will be discontinued after just 2-3 years (maybe even after just 1 if they have supply issues with the European stock maker).Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
On another note, has anyone else notice the "carbon fiber" stock Savage shows is only CF on the buttstock and forearm while the area under the action and the grip isn't CF on both the 110 and the Impulse variants? At first I thought this middle area was HDPE the same as all the Savage synthetic stocks, but then when I looked at the high-res images from Savage's Press area I noticed on the Impulse there's a badge right on it that says the mid section is 3D printed.
Attachment 10167
(click to enlarge)
Attachment 10168
(click to enlarge)
What I question is how strong the union is between the mid-section and the CF buttstock, especially at that top connection point which is pretty thin.
Oh - and in case anyone missed it, Savage is now showing a new "AccuCan" and "AccuBipod" in the slideshow on their homepage.
Dave, speaking of 110`s at war, 110 actions were/are in use in Ukraine as sniper rifles. I suspect, though, that they`ve moved on from those by now for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
Noticed the same thing right away. Does look kinda flimsy. But it’s the CF that is the long part. It’s amazing how this CF can be taken & still be so strong. However, the price is even more unreasonable with the stock not being 100% CF. We’ll see if your prediction comes to fruition. Although, I’m wondering if they don’t just end up dropping the price. After all , the 110 Elite Precision is still going. I thought Savage was crazy when they made it. But people seem to be by buying them.
I am not surprised to see the lack of CF in the lug/action area. It is not a great material in compression.
Carbon Fiber is quite a bit stiffer/more ridged than Fiberglass. And vastly more than Hardwood. There are several stocks already made 100% through & through of Carbon Fiber.Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie b
The CF will break down over time in compression.
Here's the thing about Savage... they can have 1,001 different models that are cataloged as "regular production models," but they only make what they get orders for, and they only do production runs once they have orders for X number of that model. Based on the current 2023 Savage catalog there are approximately 500 SKU's for centerfire rifles, 167 SKU's for rimfire rifles, 70 SKU's for shotguns and 45 SKU's for handguns giving a grand total of 782 SKU's. Now I don't know about you, but I've yet to find a gun shop that carries 1/20th of that selection on their shelves, much less all of it. Dealers are going to order what they feel is going to sell the fastest and/or in quantity - which is usually the more standard fair/no gimmick models. As such, distributors do the same as they're not going to order in a bunch of product that their dealers have little to no interest in because they don't think it will sell for whatever reason. So if the distributors aren't ordering it because the dealers aren't ordering it, who's Savage going to get quantity orders from so they'll actually produce some?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
Back in the early 2000's Savage offered both a Model 10FP McMillan and a 10FP HS Precision in their Law Enforcement line (as well as a couple stocked with Choate stocks and the standard tupperware stocked model). On average, Savage produced less than 300 of each of the McMillan and HS Precision models per year according to Brian Herrick (Sales VP at that time). This was at a time when Savage's selection was still fairly slim and trim rather than resembling the menu at a Baskin Robin's as it does today. Today we have 5x the number of model variations that are "standard production" models and while their overall sales numbers are up compared to back then I'd feel comfortable betting that they make less than 500-1,000 units of their high dollar specialty models like these and the competition models like the 12 Benchrest, F-Class, F/TR, Long Range Precision or Palma, etc.
The higher the price gets and/or the more specialized the gun is the fewer number of people it's going to appeal to. Throw in the state of the economy and the current interest rates that have everyone watching their spending a lot more closely and I'm betting Savage has seen some noticeable drops in sales volume on these higher ticket models already which makes one question why they're launch two more at considerably high price points for the brand.
Savage has been producing the 110 since 1959 and you still need to upgrade a brand new rifle ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Hoback
They finally go it right in 2021 with the Impulse Predator.
Straight pull
Ambidextrous bolt handle
AICS magazine
Quick change barrel system
Fixed ejector
Straight pull design has been around awhile, but the design has improved, not stayed the same.
What has changed with bolt rifles, Less degree of bolt throw to make it more like a straight pull ?
The model 110 had to start somewhere and now the Impulse has taken the reigns to bring Savage into the future.
Long live Savage.
SJC
Well, ok shoots I’m glad you are happy with at least some of what Savage is putting out.… and as you know, we do have a wonderful section devoted to the Impulse. So, we can absolutely continue speaking of the merits of it over there. However, this is the 110 section. And we like to keep things 110 related here.Quote:
Originally Posted by shoots100