Printable View
Got my ssk50 frame about a week ago. I haven’t done anything with it yet OTHER than mess with the trigger.
My cousin has a lyman digital gauge.
It had a decent trigger out of the box @ just under 3lbs.
I adjusted the external screws and got it somewhere between 1lb and 1 1/2lb pull. Not too bad!….and easily done.
Good to hear. I need to pick up mine and get it set up. :p
Is the trigger on the SSK the same design as the Encore?
I'm pretty sure it's a direct copy of the original EZ-Open Contender. Much better than the Encore, IMO. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bsekf
Nothing like encore. Copy of original contender.
Can you describe the details of your adjustment process? I installed the Bic lighter spring in mine and got it to 2 lbs. If I can get there with just the screws alone, that would be a plus for the next frame. Also, did you smooth any internal parts? There used to be a Specialty Pistols pdf (still have it on my computer) on smoothing internal surfaces and installing a bic spring or removing a coil from the factory spring. Wondered if you ever tried that tutorial. I'm remembering you from the old days on the other site. Thanks for posting... NormQuote:
Originally Posted by KYODE
Ive used the bic lighter spring on older actions that would not adjust enough to satisfy me. That way you can save your original spring and not cut it up lol.
overtravel screw(in trigger guard behind trigger) ….. screw it in until it will not activate the trigger. Then back it out until it just does, then add a bit to insure repeatability.
sear adjustment screw(top of trigger shoe)……turn screw in as if tightening. Turn until it sets the hammer off or will not cock. Back out enough to have SAFE sear engagement AND satisfy your lb pull you like.
easier done than explained lol.
im no gunsmith nor do i pretend to be. I just do what works for me.
Thanks. That's just what I was looking for!Quote:
Originally Posted by KYODE
The two screws have nothing to do with pull wieght, the screw in the trigger is trigger take up adjustment, and the screw in the trigger guard is the over travel adjustment.
You need to hone the trigger parts, and address the trigger engagement spring to lighten the wieght of pull. The adjusting screws you refer to cannot affect wieght.
Lol. You didn’t read what i typed I assume? :rolleyes:
it mysteriously went from 3lb to 1lb.
i have half a dozen(rough guess) contenders ive adjusted to suit myself over the yrs. Ive never honed any yet. Sear engagement screw or using a bic lighter spring for the trigger return spring( lforget what its called) has satisfied me every time.
Quote:
i have half a dozen(rough guess) contenders ive adjusted to suit myself over the yrs. Ive never honed any yet. Sear engagement screw or using a bic lighter spring for the trigger return spring( lforget what its called) has satisfied me every time.
same procedure I’ve used many times. I have done some light stoning, but not necessary.
G2 trigger different story
LOL
Yes I did!
LOL I understand exactly what you said, and I also know for a fact! Those two screws can no way lighten the trigger pull! It can make it feel as though it did, but a scale will prove it cant,,,,, UNLESS, you have the overtravel screw slightly contacting the trigger before the sear is released! Physical fact.
If you find it did what you saying, the only way the true wieght of pull changed on a scale, is by something internally malfunctioning! In that case I would stop using it before you have a total failure of the firing system, and someone gets hurt! This would be a sign YOU HAVE A MALFUNCTIONING TRIGGER SYSTEM THAT SHOULD NOT BE USED! A light trigger is another thing, but one changing on its own with no adjustment to it is not safe!!! And again, those two screws cannot do that!!!!
Any gun smith can tell you those two screws cannot change the wieght of pull on this firearm. Get a scale, and learn to use it. But look and understand what they do, they stop movement, nothing more!
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjshell
Quote:
same procedure I’ve used many times. I have done some light stoning, but not necessary.
G2 trigger different story
Yes this is what I'm trying to tell this clown! You have to adjust a sear engagement screw or a spring. That screw if adjusted to do what he is saying will not be safe, cock it put in a deep freeze or take it out when the weather gets below zero and it will fail! If temperature change allows the hammer to trip or the hammer not to cock it is unsafe! Any gunsmith worth his wieght will tell you that!
Clown? Wth
i used a lyman digital gauge there mr genius. IF you read my post i said I adjusted BOTH screws. One of those is the sear engagement.
dont adjust yours i could care less what you do. But dont you sit there n call me a clown and basically a liar. I don’t have to prove anything to you. The triggers on all my contenders are reasonably nice for me. Send yours to your gunsmith LOL!
I've owned Contenders since 1979, and during those years I have experimented with them with some good results and some not so good but what Mr. Kyle is saying is entirely true, Wow and you have the gall to call him a clown. I'd say you need to look into a mirror to really see one.
Kyle you are playing a dangerous game! I know for some who are aware of what this is doing it can be done with extreme caution! I also know what I'm asking about with experiance! Over 45 years ago I discovered the crap your spreading, luckily no one got KILLED!Quote:
Originally Posted by KYODE
YOU ARE ROCKING ON THE VERY EDGE OF A TRIPPED SEAR!
My first couple trys doing this was not an issue, I was a man made gun smith and a pure genius, much like you! Bit then after cheating a real safe and reliable trigger jib, I set my Remington up, a 722 243 win. and once again proved that a proper trigger job was not needed and any idiot could do one as good as any gun smith. That ended one winter day when I got up early, about -5 degrees outside in fresh snow with nothing to do living in a trailer on the river bottom raising 3 boys the oldest about 5 and set out for a walk up the river and checkout a couple hollows for some sitting bunnies sunning themselves in the freezing new snow, where head shot at 50 to 100 yards were needed before they took off.
A morning with no shots, and about 4 hours latter back at the trailer, unloading the rifle before going inside was standard practice. So dropping the barrel towards the deck floor while reaching for the safety, as the 722 bolt cannot be opened with safety on, as I move to fire, yes it fired!
This is what happens when you add in normal variables that qualified gunsmiths have to take into consideration when the do a REAL TRIGGER JOB!
Since some hear didn't understand that, what you are doing when the wieght of pull changes, you are already starting to trip the sear, it is no longer safely engaged. A quarter turn more engagement is only a couple thousandths, but you are only engaged by a couple thousandths! SO, if temperatures change it will eventually no longer engage!
Yes the contender 1st generation as well as this new SSK-50 is no different! As I did this irresponsible dangerous procedure this morning to make sure physics had not change from reality to magic,,,,, and I'll be dand, after about 5 hours in my deep freeze, this dang trigger won't set? HMM, IMAGINE THAT, two or three trips to get it set, this is not what responsible firearms safety does!
Know for all those out there that can comprehend logic? Would you think this is responsible to setup and then sell in this condition, if not you have to realize it is a unsafe condition! If you would sell it in this condition, you need to reconsider what you call responsible!
A half turn will put the trigger sear in engaged condition, not 1/2 tripped, which is why the wieght is dropping, it is already breaking its engagement! That 1/2 turn gives thous couple thousandths to put the sear in full engagement, although barely!!! You cannot raise the wieght of pull beyond where it is now, even another full turn will not raise the wieght of pull any more, that is because the only way to lower the poundage on a safely engaged trigger is to
1) polish and smooth parts to reduce friction !
2) or use a weaker spring!
You can weaken a sring by shortening it, but the better option is to use a print of the same length with lighter wieght!
I'm sorry, but after 70 years doing so any things half azz and experiencing the results, my original statement holds, and I will not apologize! This is not safe, it's not responsible, and it was why the Contender got so much blame for having trigger issues decades ago, fortunately I understand that today. It is also why much the same remarks were made about the Remington triggers decades ago as well. P
I hope the above explanation keeps someone from injuring themselves or others. It is a pain at my age to text but hopefully some will now understand what they are doing, using a sear that is not fully engaged and already climbing off the sear in a less than fully engaged condition. But common sense should have you realizing if the wieght of pull is dropping, without changing the engagement spring, you are coming off a fully engaged, safe situation!
Sorry to ruffle feathers, but I'd rather keep some here from injuring themselves or others, or possibly killing someone, to allow a few to think they are geouses, and put others in danger!
That is what clowns do when they either don't know what and why this is happening, and try to tell others to do do it, without providing a caution and explaing the dangerous condition it is creating! Yes read above, I did prove it!
Wilecatter you ever shoot pistol silhouette , hundreds of silhouette shooters have used Kyles method of tuning their Contenders without any issues you are describing.
Wildcatter….i see what you are saying. I will refrain from explaining to others exactly what i do in adjustment. Ill just leave it at ….adjust your external screws to suit yourself. I havnt had any problems myself. A bic lighter spring does work well to lighten the trigger return though.
you should reconsider the apology for the clown comment though :peace:
Yes! Over 40 years ago, that's how I stretched the original frames, ya, more than one! That's also how I know what physics are in play that cause this lighter poundage! I was aware of that over 45 years ago!Quote:
Originally Posted by HotRodAl
As a mater of fact when I started the first year I shot with David Bradshaw, Elgin wasn't there and never shot with him, but neither would have condoned this on an open forum without explaining the hazards that go along with it! And yes I pm with David to this day, and can safely make that statent a fact!
He'll I've shot registered BR for over 40 years, but would never recamend taking a safety off a rifle on an open forum without explaining the dangers and the only way is inserting the bolt only after the gun is on a rest pointed down range. That would only be something a lunatic, or totally clueless individual would do!
Hence why I get so upset when things like this are posted on an open forum. Where thousands come for information, and have no clue what is relevant or what is actually being accomplished doing such a thing. I was a Range officer on a public range, and like most coming here, they have no business with any firearm set up this way, they are a danger to themselves, as well as those around them!
I think it is safe to say that over 90% of the people that read that have never shot in any type of match, let alone Handgun Silhouette!
Today in this time of unreasonable and self proclaiming authoritarianism it is even more important that some keep things in a responsible informative manner!
Far to many think this is as safe as being properly and responsibly done to assure safety for those that don't have a clue to what is actually being accomplished, just for safety sakes of those around them!
I also don't respond to things like this unless I have a great deal of hands on experiance and input from those ai surround myself across this country that do.
But thank you for asking! I do consider it a pertinent question!
in my defense wildcatter……i made that quote. I still fail to see where im a clownQuote:
Back out enough to have SAFE sear engagement AND satisfy your lb pull you like.
I may have been out of line, but when you remarked the way did after my initial warning, I could have handled it differently. But with so many taking anything at random, without understanding just what is being done, I get overly cautious, as new shooters today seldom investigate anything they read, but this is from watching them, a majority of them, on a public range, and at times wonder how they even got a firearm, let alone understand what they have.Quote:
Originally Posted by KYODE
You can't imagine how many respond this us what others do??? Then run with thier actions instead of listening and trying to understand.
I will apologize for my clown remark, but we really need to understand what we are offering, and how others will run with it.
My apologize!
Good deal thanks!
even if we try, i dont think we can help whats out there now. Im amazed at people every day when i see what they post, or even out in public anymore. We are completely over run.
In an attempt at civility, have you tried the "push off" test. (cock the hammer and then try to push it off with your thumb) If it doesn't push off you aren't close to a "slipped sear". I am very careful with stoning the trigger parts, easy to screw up the geometry and trigger parts are scarce. I am still looking for an Encore hammer.
Today in this time of unreasonable and self proclaiming authoritarianism it is even more important that some keep things in a responsible informative manner!
And you call someone a clown!
All I got out of that rant was…..I’m 70 years old, bow down to me I know what I’m talking about��
from a gunsmith that got paid to do a pile of contender trigger work…..the screws help reduce the pull a good bit. A small amount of stone work finishes it up……
https://archive.org/details/gunmanua...e/n12/mode/1up
My take away from the original manual, keep it safe
Makes no sense to have factory installed adjustment screws and not be able to adjust them. I have always done it to my liking.
So i guess my method was not far off from the manual. Except for the bic lighter spring lol. Ive used one at least 2 or 3 times though. I have one original ss action that you could not get to a reasonable weight with just the external screws. The bic spring fixes that easily. You have to be careful and not get it too light with it. I actually cut the bic spring longer than the original heavier factory spring.
idk if im allowed to speak of the bic lighter spring lol. I didn’t come up with the idea. I read it many yrs ago…..somewhere.
I couldn't remember so I had to check some of mine. Here's what I have.
1st Contender 8oz and I would not suggest anyone go this low even though I have never had a problem with it.
2nd Contender 1lb 8oz.
3rd Contender 1lb 6oz.
4th G2 2lb 5oz.
5th Encore 2lb.
6th Encore 1lb 10oz.
^^^^^ Exactly what my smith does for me ^^^^^ :peace: gotta love the internetQuote:
Originally Posted by HandgunhuntingAfield
Nice triggers jules. Thats the kind of weights i like. Mine are probably comparable overall. Ive gauged em before but of course forget. My ss action the 6x47 ott rides on is really really light. Of course Be safe when handling any gun.
Forgot, another short term authority explains all he knows on the subject, carry on,Quote:
Originally Posted by HandgunhuntingAfield
They are all clean n crisp and I'm happy with all those pull weights. The 8oz I only use for working up loads.Quote:
Originally Posted by KYODE
Your reading comprehension is lacking! Nowhere does it mention either screw for lightening anything. But it is very clear that they are for taking travel out! Not one word about removing unwanted wieght of pull! My guess is they figure that should be obvious your going to far!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mjshell
The fact of physics is obvious the last 1/4 turn is .001"s between engaging or not. With would be clear to anyone who understands physics, it is starting to trip! That is exactly what is happening, it is not a wieght adjustment, and the manual is very clear about that,,,,, if you can comprehend the language used!
Carry on folks, I'm obviously wasting my time trying to explain common sense, since that you either have or you don't. But some here are good at making things say, crap they absoluetly and clearly don't!
Any chance you could be done with the condescension so we could? The pissing contest is getting a little old. :argue::blah::argue::blah::deadhorse::deadhorse:Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcatter
Seems crazy to me to argue how to adjust your own personal trigger on a contender. :noidea:
It does mention “light” a couple of times as reference to trigger engagement.
More engagement = more pressure to release the sear. Less engagement = less pressure to release the sear. Heavier vs. lighter trigger. This is verifiable with a trigger scale.
It explains further on how to keep adjustments Safe.
Agree to disagree and move on.
Don't hate!
you’ll get there someday. Keep pounding the table and screaming that you are right….one more time and you might reach pro status.Quote:
Originally Posted by wildcatter
As stated in the Contender manual.......In order to check the adjustment for let-off travel the following procedure should be used. Cock the Contender with the chamber unloaded and the action open. Close the action "sharply". Repeat the procedure several times. If the hammer falls at all when the action is closed "sharply" the adjustment is too light. This condition must be corrected by turning the adjustment screw counterclockwise to increase the trigger engagement. This procedure should be performed after each and every adjustment of the trigger engagement. If this has been done and it passes this test it really makes no difference as long as your happy with the pull weight.
Didn't mean to start a firestorm here - but it has been enlightening! The bic lighter spring idea was a pdf at the old Specialty Pistols website by a Mr. Broas. Had complete instructions with pictures (helpful to those of us who learn by seeing rather than by reading lol). I keep a copy of it in my Contender files. It has worked for me. I always appreciated the good ideas in those days and the good ideas here. Just like anything online, you've got to take all things into consideration, proceed at your own risk and making all things safe is your own responsibility. Seems to me that life is too short to get all worked up over stuff. Just be smart, be kind, do the best you can, stay safe, and have fun. Good to have places like this to chat about our favorite hobbies. Always a good idea to keep it civil. Thanks for the many positive comments and suggestions...
"In order to check the adjustment for let-off travel the following procedure should be used. Cock the Contender with the chamber unloaded and the action open. Close the action "sharply". Repeat the procedure several times. If the hammer falls at all when the action is closed "sharply" the adjustment is too light. This condition must be corrected by turning the adjustment screw counterclockwise to increase the trigger engagement. This procedure should be performed after each and every adjustment of the trigger engagement. If this has been done and it passes this test it really makes no difference as long as your happy with the pull weight."
Think I'll go check all my Contender frames right now just to satisfy my ocd...and to remind myself to be on the safe side...:rolleyes:
This may be one of those perfect opportunities for all involved to learn that it's ok to just nod in agreement and let it go even though you don't agree.
In the 20+ years I've been running this site I've dealt most every kind of internet personality you could imagine, and then probably a few more from the deep dark depths of Hell that were well beyond the scope of your imagination. There will always be those who insist they are right. There are always going to be those who insist they know better. There are always going to be those who no matter how many times you show them the "right" way to do something they'll still insist their way is better. Sometimes they may be right, sometimes they may be totally wrong - in my experience it plays out to about 50/50 odds so might as well just flip a coin to decide who's right. And of course there are also times where both are right and just approach the subject from different perspectives, the same as there are times where both sides are completely wrong and don't have a clue what they're talking about (see any of the various firearm related facebook groups for unlimited examples of the latter)
As my dad used to frequently say, "There are many ways to skin a cat, but some are more hazardous than others." Now I don't know a darn thing about Encore's so I'm not going to attempt to discern if one side's right and the other side's wrong in this, but what I can say is that after reading through the back and forth in this post it's obvious Wildcatter was just concerned about people's safety and possibly some potentially bad information being shared. Having had to address similar situations regarding Savage trigger adjustment info on this forum countless times over the last 20-some years I know exactly where he was coming from and that his concern was well-intended even if it came off more brash and confrontational than he probably intended. I've been guilty of that a time or two as well with some of my responses to "questionable" info or ideas being shared. This is also why you don't see any trigger adjustment articles in our Gunsmithing Articles or FAQ's area of the main site - you just never know who's going to read it and/or if that person is competent and knowledgeable enough about firearms to work on their own trigger. As such it's always best to just err on the side of caution.
As for the "Clown" comment, Wildcatter has already acknowledged that the name calling was uncalled for and apologized for it so I think we can consider that aspect of the conversation settled.
Thanks for this. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Baker
I’m sorry this thread has gone to crap. I think wildcatter means well. IME, triggers are kind of tricky, although Contenders are some of the most simple.
First, it helps to have the sear surfaces polished square and smooth, but this really is not required. Really, you need static friction between sear surfaces much greater than sliding friction. I’ve polished the crap out of guns and it usually makes that better, but sometimes worse. This is the main way creep feeling is reduced. Creep is the feeling of the sliding friction.
Then….or just skip #1 and start here. Adjust the sear engagement for a creepy pull. Reduce sear engagement by adjusting the screw until the sear releases. This is too far. Back off 1/2 turn. This is minimum engagement. Then keep adding engagement until you think the trigger is getting bad. Basically, you want as much sear engagement as possible without the trigger feeling creepy.
Last, adjust the overtravel until it won’t release. The while pressing trigger adjust until the sear releases. Then keep going 1/2 turn. This puts you at some risk of poor reliability. So, keep adding over travel until you sense over travel.
Do all this with wet purple locktite on the screws. The goal here is to maximize overtravel and sear engagement while you still feel a great trigger. Make sense? Sear engagement and overtravel all make the gun safer, but feel worse. So, there is a balance.
Past this, ordering trigger springs from Belmn and clipping coils can get you from benchrest light to lawyer heavy on most guns.
What wildcat was trying to say is if you could see the sear under a microscope, you would see it is not perfectly mated or square. Adjusting the sear engagement can often get us to a point where weight goes down, but the sear engagement is hanging by a burr or partial mating. This feels ok, but is ready to jar off. I get that many people have adjusted this screw to reduce weight, but I think you would be wiser to better understand the mechanism. I did this with an MOA trigger once. I’m glad I looked through the sear peek window to see it wasn’t cocking right before finishing my adjustment. Unfortunately, there is no peek window in a Contender.
Good luck sir. Also try a jar off test where the gun is smacked on its but and sides to confirm the trigger is sprung and engaged well enough to be safe. Also confirm push off and wiggling the trigger side to side.
Yep - good advice.
Yes, good advice.