Tractor question - hydrostatic drive or shuttle-shift reliability

Given the same tractor - be it John Deere, Kubota or Mahindra - is either drive system more or less reliable than the other for clearing land (pulling/pushing small trees/stumps)?


Speaking of new tractors only.


Looking at a tractor to bush hog 3 1/2 acres but will also need to maintain a 1/4 mile dirt driveway and partially clear another six acres. Power company dropped a dozen 12-18 inch diameter pines that need to be cut up and pulled away. The uncleared land is old paper company land with pines. Most of the pines are all over a foot in diameter but there are some nice oaks that have started to grow up in there. I'd like to thin out the undergrowth, a lot of 4-6 inch trees, and cut some of the pines to allow the hardwoods more room to grow - not to mention get rid of the old dead stuff that's nothing but a fire hazard.


Right now I'm looking at the Mahindra 2538 4WD HST and the Kubota L3901 4WD (either shuttle shift or HST).

After years as a civil contractor and farmer before that, I would give 2 pieces of advice:

1. Rent a couple of different one first and try them out.

2. Buy the one that you like best and has the best dealer support. That will typically be Deere, Kubota, Yanmar, not necessarily in that order, however I do prefer Green[emoji1]

I am far from an expert, but I did quite a bit of reading a while back about tractors and transmission types. At the time, I really wanted to buy a Kubota L3940 with hydrostatic transmission and front end loader. I figured I was better off at the time to try and pay off my property first, so I did not do it. I bought an old John Deere 2030 to run a rotary cutter to get me by for now.

99% of the time, from what I read, everyone that has used a hydrostatic tractor said they would never go back to anything else. If you plan to use a front end loader, the HST will have a big advantage of going from forward to reverse quickly. Some say the HST is not as reliable, but the more I read, the more I saw people claiming that was not true. Again, I have no experience with a HST, other than my riding mower, and that really doesn't count.

As gbflyer said, it would not hurt to try them all out if you have the opportunity. I think either transmission type would serve you well. But, like I said, people more often than not rave about their HST tractors.

Love my Mahindra 2615, HST is what you need to brush hog in thick stuff... you can rock and twist forward and back in the trees with no effort. Handled a 5' howse with no problem.

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Originally Posted by gbflyer

After years as a civil contractor and farmer before that, I would give 2 pieces of advice:

1. Rent a couple of different one first and try them out.

2. Buy the one that you like best and has the best dealer support. That will typically be Deere, Kubota, Yanmar, not necessarily in that order, however I do prefer Green[emoji1]

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While not necessarily extensive - all of my tractor experience has been on traditional manual transmission models.

I went to a Kubota dealer today and one of the first things the salesman did was go back inside and get the keys. Allowed me to drive a traditional shuttle-shift and a HST model - exact same tractor.

The HST was definitely smoother to operate. Did not like the way the brakes were set up on the same side as the HST controls. The shuttle-shift model was just like I remembered the old tractors.

buy a case skid steer, and then start buying attachments, you will never regret it

I did the same thing years back on a 10 acre parcel. I first bought an old Ford 600 with a loader on it,
then traded that for a Kubota with a loader and a rear mount pto driven mower. It really wasent the best at anything.
Skid steers were just beginning to appear back then and I never even considered one of those.
But if I had my time over I would have bought a good used construction type backhoe with a loader on it to do everything as for clearing ect.
Then later decided what type mower I needed to maintain it. A skid steer with a backhoe attachment would also be hard to beat
for everything except mowing. Renting the right equiptment for the heavy work would probably be a wise move.

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

While not necessarily extensive - all of my tractor experience has been on traditional manual transmission models.

I went to a Kubota dealer today and one of the first things the salesman did was go back inside and get the keys. Allowed me to drive a traditional shuttle-shift and a HST model - exact same tractor.

The HST was definitely smoother to operate. Did not like the way the brakes were set up on the same side as the HST controls. The shuttle-shift model was just like I remembered the old tractors.

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I never needed to use the brakes unless I wanted to get off the tractor on a hill. You shouldn't need them otherwise...

I was a kubota tech for a time and am not a fan of hydrostatic for heavy work,but mostly because people are not educated on how to drive them.

If you need power for pulling just crack the treadle and travel slow for maximum power-peoples learned reaction is push the peddle harder for more power and that is EXACTLY THE WRONG APPROACH for hydrostatic drive.
As speed increases torque decreases so you only cause excess heat and wear and will have repair bills and lack of satisfaction with the tractor.

I prefer shuttle shift if you intend to use it as a tractor and not a garden/lawn tractor.

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Originally Posted by ksw13

buy a case skid steer, and then start buying attachments, you will never regret it

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If money were no option...

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Renting the right equiptment for the heavy work would probably be a wise move.

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This is actually the direction we're leaning - along with looking at tractors in the the low 30 HP range.

Driveway maintenance and mowing will be the vast majority of work done with it.

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Originally Posted by racer55

I was a kubota tech for a time and am not a fan of hydrostatic for heavy work,but mostly because people are not educated on how to drive them.

If you need power for pulling just crack the treadle and travel slow for maximum power-peoples learned reaction is push the peddle harder for more power and that is exactly the wrong approach for hydrostatic drive.
As speed increases torque decreases so you only cause excess heat and wear and will have repair bills and lack of satisfaction with the tractor.


I prefer shuttle shift if you intend to use it as a tractor and not a garden/lawn tractor.

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Most of my use lawn/land maintenance. Very little heavy dirt work.

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Originally Posted by Rick_W

This is actually the direction we're leaning - along with looking at tractors in the the low 30 HP range.

Driveway maintenance and mowing will be the vast majority of work done with it.

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That's all fine, but first things first. And for that which could also include (creating) the driveway, septic system, etc, etc, you will do more work faster and better with the proper equiptment.
As for the actual grass mowing, assuming its an established lawn and not a field requiring a brush hog, the tractors you mention would be no match for a zero turn mower.
I had that proven to me when I sold my property and offered the Kubota to the buyer.
He turned it down and had a zero turn delivered for a trial. He did in less than an hour what would have taken 3 hours with the Kubota, and there was no need for a small trim mower afterwards.
Again, the right tool for the job at hand.

Don't over look the 'Kioti'.......made in South Korea.....

I bought a new CK35 in 2010 w/front end loader...now has 300 hrs...not a minutes worth of trouble...

Tranny is gear driven...not HST......Have a variety of impliments..soon to add a 60" PTO tiller

http://www.kioti.com/products/tracto...series/ck3510/

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Originally Posted by yobuck

That's all fine, but first things first. And for that which could also include (creating) the driveway, septic system, etc, etc, you will do more work faster and better with the proper equiptment.
As for the actual grass mowing, assuming its an established lawn and not a field requiring a brush hog, the tractors you mention would be no match for a zero turn mower.

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It's all field, all the way up to what will be the house. I have been looking at a zero turns and would like to get one after we get the yard established.

We'll have licensed contractors doing the septic system. It's actually the only construction that requires an inspection here.

The "driveway" is nothing but grass right now - 1,200' long. There's already quite a few dips in it. Most fill dirt delivered in this area has a lot if not mostly red clay. Not a fan of that for a driveway. Will be looking at crushed concrete or limestone in the future.

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Originally Posted by Armed in Utah

Don't over look the 'Kioti'.......made in South Korea.....

I bought a new CK35 in 2010 w/front end loader...now has 300 hrs...not a minutes worth of trouble...

Tranny is gear driven...not HST......Have a variety of impliments..soon to add a 60" PTO tiller

http://www.kioti.com/products/tracto...series/ck3510/

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I'm not familiar the brand but will check them out.

Kioti's are highly regarded from what I have read. They are often referred to as "the other orange" tractor. I too considered a Kioti, but finances changed my mind, and I settled on the old John Deere 2030 to get me by.

Demo a John Deere and a Kubota on the property and decide between those two, all others are just cheap alternatives. My background is 20 years on a large dairy farm, all JD's and 8 years in the compact diesel tractor sales business.

So - is anyone familiar with LS tractors? Good or bad?

You will find zero turns are heavy, and don't like soft ground. other than that, they rock!

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Originally Posted by mbohuntr

You will find zero turns are heavy, and don't like soft ground. other than that, they rock!

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No zero-turns in the near future.

Went and looked at LS - no warm and fuzzy. Can't say the closest Mahindra dealer was much better.

JD salesman seemed to be very knowledgeable. Was pleasant to talk to and not pushy. Recommended a tractor that I originally felt would be too small - 3032E. I hesitate to call them "local" since they are actually based out of Georgia with 21 locations across four states.

The Kubota dealer also recommended a tractor I originally felt was too small - L3301. Was waited on by the owner/sales manager. When I introduced myself, he says "you just bought the land by N.D. - he told me he was sending you my way". Also quite pleasurable to talk with.

JD & Kubota both offer competitive financial options.

Be careful with Kubota, I just came from mine looking at a new rig, they don't include many things on their machines like leveling rods, backhoe buckets etc. those were... ...extra... :mad:, I picked up a new Mahindra 1533, gonna get it dirty today... ;)

Sent you a message Rick, but your inbox is full.

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Originally Posted by yobuck

Sent you a message Rick, but your inbox is full.

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I believe I fixed it.

In my continuing research I stumbled upon a web site with a calculator that will allow you to get an estimate of the weight of a tree.

Log Weight Calculator

There are other calculators there that allow you to estimate board footage and other things.

Most of the trees I'll be cutting up and moving are under 18 inches in diameter. Based on the calculator, I can cut these into 12 foot lengths and stay under 1,000 lbs, The few that are 24" or greater will have to be cut into 7-8 ft lengths to stay under 1,000 lbs. I would have a difficult time moving a 12 ft log in those woods so 8-10 ft seems more likely. This means I won't require the 2,000+/- FEL lift capacity that I was searching for - 1,100-1,200 lbs will be sufficient.

be very careful carrying loads up front,a great many people have been crippled or killed when they lifted the load too high and it rolled down the loader arms directly to rest on or clean the operator from the tractor.

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Originally Posted by racer55

be very careful carrying loads up front,a great many people have been crippled or killed when they lifted the load too high and it rolled down the loader arms directly to rest on or clean the operator from the tractor.

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I will be using logging chains and skid grapples attached to the bucket to keep the logs low.

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Originally Posted by racer55

be very careful carrying loads up front,a great many people have been crippled or killed when they lifted the load too high and it rolled down the loader arms directly to rest on or clean the operator from the tractor.

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That's very good advice. A load carried high will also make the tractor very top heavy and prone to overturn. Small tractors can be dangerous little buggers.

I bought a KIOTI 24 hp a couple of years ago. 24 month bumper to bumper and 48 on drive train. So far I haven't had to claim anything and I have abused the heck out of it at my new lease. I did find a small issue with one of the hydraulic cylinders on the bucket that was fixed when I bought it. Brush hogging constantly, disking food plots, building and repairing roads with the bucket and a drag blade. It literally hasn't stopped. I was real skeptical at first with the hydro-static tyranny but I fell in love with it, brush hogging and building roads. Fast forward and reverse was the best, a lot better than a clutch system. I grew up farming a drove a lot of different brands, sizes and types of tractors. This one by far is the most comfortable to operate. Would it replace a 4020JD, Cadillac in the 70's, no. It isn't designed for it but for its size, it is a work horse. About the biggest problem with it, even though it is a 4 wheel drive, it does get stuck. I believe it has to do with the smaller diameter tires in the front. I guess it wasn't designed to replace the Jeep either.

[QUOTE=Rick_W;403413]In my continuing research I stumbled upon a web site with a calculator that will allow you to get an estimate of the weight of a tree

Depending upon the type of tree, they could be valuable left as they are.
Contact a logging outfit and ask the question before just cutting them.
A saw mill could be helpful also and could no doubt recommend a logger.
The county agriculture dept might also be helpful with free information before you just willy nilly start whacking away at things.
To give you an example, about 1970 I purchased 14.5 acres of wooded property for $3500 in the mountains of NC PA.
I have had the trees select cut, meaning just some, on 2 separate occaisions which returned more than my original cost of the land.
I also donated enough Hemlock trees to rebuild a covered bridge in Bucks co, for which I received a tax credit.
And I'm now in a position to have it select cut again, so trees can be a valuable thing to have.
You might also be able to have it cut into lumber for your own use.
There are people with small portable saw mill setups who would do that.
Even soft pine has many uses, such as interior window and door trim etc.

edit to reflect that land is actually about 17.5 acres, but a few acres are on the opposite side of a road
and didn't enter into much of the lumber harvest.