.223 Model 10/110 accuracy sux

I have a Savage .223 Trophy Hunter that I bought new last year. It came with a Nikon BDC 3x9 power scope that I changed out for a Burris C4 4.5x14 scope. I have put all kinds of ammo through this rifle, including Winchester and Hornady Match ammo. Several friends even have given me their best handloads to try. The rifle has a 1-9 twist and I've put a few hundred round through it. The best group I've gotten so far is a 1 inch group at 100 yards with 40 gr ballistic tips. 50, 55, 60, 60, 75 gr all give me 2 to 3 inch groups. another shooter got the same results so I'm reasonable sure it is not me. Am I going to have to have this action glass bedded or is there something else that I'm going to have to do? I don't reload yet but have plans to. I just can't believe that there is no factory ammo that this rifle with digest with acceptable accuracy and seriously doubt that reloading will solve this.

What gives? I bought the Savage because of their reputation for accuracy but I'm not seeing it. :suspicion:

Scope rings suck from the factory, make sure barrel is floating and don't let barrel get hot, as the sporter heats up quick...

Oh and make sure everything is torqued to spec....

Check the scope base and ring screws as Digduggy said, also check the action screws. If all that checks out I would say you have not found what the rifle likes yet. I'm sure you already know, what shoots well in one rifle may not work in another.

Check to see that the tang is free floated. During firing cessions, check the barrel channel with a business card to see if the barrel is still floating after warming up a bit. Some 9 twist barrels will handle the 75 grain bullets if pushed hard enough but a 9 twist is a little slow for that bullet weight. What is the pull weight of your trigger? What front and rear rest are you using? Is the rifle recoiling straight back in "the bags" or is it torqueing/twisting? Welcome to the forums. A great bunch of guys here that will try to help you all they can.

What do the groups look like? Stringing? Vertical or horizontal ? or just scattered. Did you change bases and rings ? You can always send it to Savage and let them have a go at it. Their customer service really impressed me when I had a problem. Gary

I did not change the base because it seemed solid. I did install a good set of steel rings because I stripped out the cheap aluminum ones that came with the rifle package from Savage. I also installed a Burris C4 scope in place of the Nikon because I wanted something that I could dial in the range with. I've taken the rifle apart and paid close attention to how I put the action screws back in. I had to buy another 1/4-28 socket head cap screw for the rear because the head stripped out on that one. (guess I don't know my own strength) I don't know about the tang being floating or how to even tell.

I'm shooting off of a bench with a stack of sand bags filled with real fine sand under the forearm and using a sock filled with rice in the rear. Very solid and very steady. The rifle seems to twist and not come straight back with recoil.

The groups are mostly scattered. Nothing consistently going either vertical or horizontal. I've checked the barrel to make sure that it is free floating when I'm at the range and it seems to have enough clearance.

At this point I don't know if I need to just give it to a gun smith and have the action bedded or if I need to buy a reloader and start down that path. I really want this thing to shoot tight groups at 100 yards before I take it hunting again. (I completely missed two coyotes with it at 100 yards because I did not realize that the 55 gr ballistic tips would shoot 1 3/4 inches high and 6 1/2 inches left of where the 55gr FMJs that I sighted in with hit. Grrrrrr) Now I know that every different load will have a different point of impact. I just want to find one that will stack holes at 100 yards and I will stick with that.

IMHO, the bases need to be replaced regardless. If you shoot it much and then remove the rings, eventually you will see the slots in the bases get deformed where the cross-bar goes thru. They are the cheapest aluminum bases you can get. Not saying that is your problem, but it will be eventually if not already a part of it.

At the risk of starting a fight let me get this straight.

You stripped out the original rings(OK htat's not crazy but a little disturbing)
You hogged out the hex head on an action screw(wrong bit) or You don't know when to quit.
You shot 2 different kinds of ammo thru it and expected them to shoot in the same place?

Take the rifle to a gunsmith and have him go thru it from top to bottom, and get it as "right" as possible including floating the rear tang. This also includes having it cleaned by someone with a borescope so that you KNOW it's clean.

THEN take it out and try it..........Then have someone who you KNOW is a real good shot try it. Just a suggestion but if it's a savage with a 9 twist and you can find the components try having someone who loads load you up a few rounds of 69gr Sierra Match Kings with 24.7 gr of TAC powder. If it won't shoot that load it won't shoot.

At that point if it doesn't shoot for either one of you sell it

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Originally Posted by Rooster 50

At the risk of starting a fight let me get this straight.

You stripped out the original rings(OK htat's not crazy but a little disturbing)
You hogged out the hex head on an action screw(wrong bit) or You don't know when to quit.
You shot 2 different kinds of ammo thru it and expected them to shoot in the same place?

Take the rifle to a gunsmith and have him go thru it from top to bottom, and get it as "right" as possible including floating the rear tang. This also includes having it cleaned by someone with a borescope so that you KNOW it's clean.

THEN take it out and try it..........Then have someone who you KNOW is a real good shot try it. Just a suggestion but if it's a savage with a 9 twist and you can find the components try having someone who loads load you up a few rounds of 69gr Sierra Match Kings with 24.7 gr of TAC powder. If it won't shoot that load it won't shoot.

At that point if it doesn't shoot for either one of you sell it

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No, you won't start a fight. I assumed the hex head screws in the action were metric and the wrench slipped. My bad. The aluminum rings were just crap and when I was trying to make sure everything was tight I pulled one screw head through one of the rings. Grrrrrrr. I took it to a range with a friend who is a retired USMC Master Gunnery Sergeant who knows quite a bit about firearms. The rifle gave him the same groups. He gave it back to me and said "something is loose". That was just before I pulled the screw through the aluminum ring.

I appreciate the advice on the Match King load and may give that a try.

The tang is where the safety is located just behind the bolt handle. Slide a dollar bill or business card under the flange all away around.

Check out this post http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...ating-the-tang

I knew that the barrel needed to float but not the tang. So much to learn for an old guy.

By the way, I no longer expect the same point of impact for different loads. I'm using large paper with crosses drawn on for aiming points. Then without adjusting the scope I'm just shooting to see what I get for groups with the different types of ammo. The reason for using the large paper is that some loads will not hit an 8 1/2 by 11 sheet where others may be just a few inches off center. I can deal with that. I'm looking for accurate loads and tight groups.

I sure wish you lived down the street I would just tell you to bring it over and we would work it over until it shot right, us old guys need to stick together.

Are you actually in Idaho? If so where?

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Originally Posted by Rooster 50

I sure wish you lived down the street I would just tell you to bring it over and we would work it over until it shot right, us old guys need to stick together.

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+1 good luck

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Originally Posted by KRP

Are you actually in Idaho? If so where?

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Pocatello

Here is the proper torquing procedure...

http://www.accurateshooter.com/techn...torque-tuning/

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Originally Posted by Idaho

Pocatello

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Hoping you'd be closer as I'd take a look and lend a hand if possible, I'm near Boise.

Has anyone taken a real close look at the crown on this rifle?

Yes on the crown. A couple of guys have looked at it.

Dig, thanks for the info on how to torque the action screws. I will give it a try.

KRP, I appreciate your willingness to help. If I don't get this sorted out I may have to pay you a visit.

You mentioned changing an action screw.

Are you sure it did not bottom out before the action was drawn up snug?

I had a .25-06 bull barrel build (long action) and I bought some screws at the hardware store. The build never did group well.

I recently took that barrel off and found out all the that time one of the screws was a little too long.

Best of luck with your Savage ........ there is logical explanation for everything ..... the trick is to find it!

Three 44s

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Originally Posted by Three44s

You mentioned changing an action screw.

Are you sure it did not bottom out before the action was drawn up snug?

I had a .25-06 bull barrel build (long action) and I bought some screws at the hardware store. The build never did group well.

I recently took that barrel off and found out all the that time one of the screws was a little too long.

Best of luck with your Savage ........ there is logical explanation for everything ..... the trick is to find it!

Three 44s

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I was very careful with the length of the new screw. I cut it off to the exact length of the original and then polished the leading edges down on a small belt sander so that it would screw into the receiver with no problem. Thanks

You made mention of the rifle not riding the bags straight back. That twisting is part of your issue. Is the front bag lose enough to make a trough in the center for the forearm to ride in. The front rest should be back towards the front action screw too.

I have accumulated a set of Lee rifle dies, a box of 69gr Barnes Match Burner bullets, two pounds of H335 powder, a brass polisher and a new Dillon 550B reloader. I'm going to pick up some CCI primers and load up some ammo. I will figure out how far the lands are from the neck and seat the bullets just short of that to minimize the jump from case neck to lands. No crimp. I plan to start with minimum load and go in 1/2 grain steps to max to see what happens.

Good. My only suggestion would be to work up loads with a little less increments in powder, maybe 1/4 or 1/3 just because .223 uses relatively less powder than, say, 30-06. As a result, jumping by 1/2 grain might cause you to miss a "sweet spot" or center of a node. I could be wrong, God knows I have been before. :)

I did .2 grain jumps for my 223... worked out really well

Okay. Good advice. Smaller jumps it is. Thanks

This members of this forum are great. Everyone pitching in to help.

Definitely! They've given me alot of help, input, opinions, tips...etc...its awesome here. Try not to throw too many variables in at one time. Try and get everything right on the gun side first. Then with your reloading try not to change anything but powder charge at first. Then, after finding some consistency, there can be tweaks done with powders, primers, seating depths and so on. Its very rare(in my opinion) for one of these rifles to just plain not shoot well. Everybody here will help out.
Scooter

Pocatello

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Originally Posted by scooterf79

Definitely! They've given me alot of help, input, opinions, tips...etc...its awesome here. Try not to throw too many variables in at one time. Try and get everything right on the gun side first. Then with your reloading try not to change anything but powder charge at first. Then, after finding some consistency, there can be tweaks done with powders, primers, seating depths and so on. Its very rare(in my opinion) for one of these rifles to just plain not shoot well. Everybody here will help out.
Scooter

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Thanks Scooter, that's my plan. I'm going to establish a seating depth and stay with it. Full length resize on first reload only then neck size after that. No crimp. I will start with a mid range charge and vary above and below that by 0.2 gr at a time.
I plan to keep a lot of notes.

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Originally Posted by Rooster 50

I sure wish you lived down the street I would just tell you to bring it over and we would work it over until it shot right, us old guys need to stick together.

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Amen to that!

I'm making progress. 40Gr V-max gave a 0.74 inch group but I need/want a heavier bullet for the longer ranges that I encounter here in Idaho. I've reloaded Barnes 69gr BTHP bullets over 23.6 gr of H335 and got a 0.92 inch group. I want them to touch so I have a long way to go but at least I'm headed in the right direction.

Still playing with loads. I have several different groups of ammo loaded at 23.8 and 24 gr and plan to go the other way and load down to 22.8 and 22.6 to see if there is any improvement that direction. I also am going to buy a box of bullets from another manufacturer to see if I get any better results there.

Having fun now. Thanks for the help.

Try 77gr SMK with a stout load of RL-15. Works good in my 9 twist.