Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
nope, they do not, not like I'd care since I would just switch out the trigger for a rifle basix anyway, but I would do the same as you, buy the stevens solely for the action, It sure as heck is cheaper than buying a savage action by itself (about $400 last i checked) and is the same.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Speaking of expensive LH rifles, have you lefties looked at the money folks are getting for their LH m70's?
Insane money, especially for the SS models.
I lucked into a local SS LH M70 cheap this past Spring and while I liked the rifle a bunch when I saw what they were bringing on GB I had to trip it on GB.
$1800 with a Zeiss 3-9x40 Conquest, the original wood stock and a McMillan stock.
I think I paid $650 for it with a 4.5-14x40 Leupold Vari-XIII. traded the Leupy straight across for the Conquest making it basically free.
I trip rifles often but never at such a profit, it's usually a loss for me!
We lefties have Savage, Remington, and Ruger actions to choose from and that ain't a lot unless one would accept a Tikka T3 too. I won't. there are others but they are few and far between.
Sorry about going off post here guys.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I could be wrong but I think you can get a Montana Rifleman in a left handed action. It's basically a copy of the model 70 action with a few improvements. Maybe you should look into it. I don't see Savage making a Mauser style controlled round feed action anytime soon. I don't consider a $1000 rifle a high end rifle either but to me it ain't cheap either. Of course since you have the machines to make a shouldered barrel and headspace it you could get a left handed Savage, make a barrel exactly the way you want it, and buy a stock exactly like you want and voila! You have the rifle you wanted. I have nothing against the Kimber and don't think their "high end" in the same sense as a custom job but I can't afford as many of them as I can Savages so we obviously just have a difference of opinion and that's fine. That's why there are different makes and models out there because nobody likes the exact same thing. Now as for the '99, they could probably get Ruger to cast the actions for them and that would save a lot of money there that maybe would make it affordable enough.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Case in point in the difference in opinion between folks. nsaqam likes lightweight rifles, I don't. The weight doesn't bother me. Are there times I wish I had a lighter rifle? Maybe. But I'll take the weight for being able to shoot it better. I can't shoot the lightweight rifles as well because to me they're too whippy and harder for me to steady. If you're a better marksman than me fine. I don't get much time to practice anymore so it's easier for me to shoot a heavier rifle accurately. I haven't weighed it since I put the new scope on it but my 116 300 win mag probably weighs 13-14lbs. And guess what? I carry it! Probably wouldn't carry it in the Rockies but here in the Appalachians it works fine for me except when I'm hunting in the thick woods. Then I get one of my shorter rifles. Not because of weight but because of length.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Yes MRC has introduced a new lineup of what they call Production Rifles and they sell for around $1000.
Heavy though.
I talked to them several times and just about pulled the trigger but then this LH Kimber of Oregon came up on GB and I simply had to have it as I had never seen one before.
The Kimber came to me partially inletted in an out of the mold stock and did not have a functioning safety but the seller wasn't aware of that. With the help of some good folks over on 24hcf who provided pics of their K of O triggers/safety and I was able to turn a connecting strut from the thumbwheel to the trigger block and it turned out perfectly. I told the seller about all this and he was great. Sent me a little money back for my time and we called it a good transaction.
I'm no marksman, consistently MOA or slightly better is all I can claim.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
O.K. back to the subject............... Would anyone else like to have a bolt that cocks on closing rather than the cock on opening abomination?
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotcha
O.K. back to the subject............... Would anyone else like to have a bolt that cocks on closing rather than the cock on opening abomination?
Nope,
I have played with rifles that the bolt cocks on closing, and I dont like it, it also slows down the process.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 82boy
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotcha
O.K. back to the subject............... Would anyone else like to have a bolt that cocks on closing rather than the cock on opening abomination?
Nope,
I have played with rifles that the bolt cocks on closing, and I dont like it, it also slows down the process.
I don't care either way on a target/hunting rifle - have both, but I completely disagree with you on the speed issue. Enfields have to be the fastest operating bolt guns I have ever worked with.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Pardon my ignorance but where can I find an explanation of how the timing works? I understand it's supposed to make the bolt lift easier. I always just thought that the hard bolt lift was due to Savage using very stiff firing pin springs to speed up the lock time. I've built several now but haven't looked into that too much. My little brain thought process was always: How's it out of time when it's fully cocked when I lift the bolt handle fully and the cocking pin is caught by the sear when the bolt handle is closed? In other words nothing was bound up so I thought it worked fine.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in NC
I don't care either way on a target/hunting rifle - have both, but I completely disagree with you on the speed issue. Enfields have to be the fastest operating bolt guns I have ever worked with.
All I can say is get a reworked, Savage or Remington, or better yet get a Panda or a Bat, sit it beside a Enfield and see which one you can operate the fastest. You may be suprised. The pushing on the bolt to get the bolt to cosk and close, will slow down opperation more than you think. This is why competition guns do use cock on close technology.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by efm77
Pardon my ignorance but where can I find an explanation of how the timing works? I understand it's supposed to make the bolt lift easier. I always just thought that the hard bolt lift was due to Savage using very stiff firing pin springs to speed up the lock time. I've built several now but haven't looked into that too much. My little brain thought process was always: How's it out of time when it's fully cocked when I lift the bolt handle fully and the cocking pin is caught by the sear when the bolt handle is closed? In other words nothing was bound up so I thought it worked fine.
Try reading this. http://savageshooters.com/SavageForu...ic,4899.0.html
About the best way i can desribe timming is it is placing the cocking to where it is fully cocked, at the higest point, and has the longest duration of firing pin travel. The bolt lift is from the heavy spring, and inproper geomotry of the ramps. Timming is nothing new, or amazing, Benchrest shooters or their gunsmiths know it the best.
Lets put an example when you cock you savage, and you start to drop the bolt, if you feel the handle where it wants to jump a few degrees from top on the way down. (It usualy moves about 5 degrees then no jump, you can push it the rest of the way closed.) this is decocking, the firing pin looses travel, it also means that the gun is overcocking. (Going further than it can go do to the geomtry.) Placing the gun in time means that the bolt cocks at the top of the ramp, and keeps the inertia, and alows the firing pin to traven without disruption. (trying to describe this in lamans terms.)
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
You know, I have tried all of those, but never in a repeater stocked for offhand work with aperture sights. Might have to try it...
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I don't care either way on a target/hunting rifle - have both, but I completely disagree with you on the speed issue. Enfields have to be the fastest operating bolt guns I have ever worked
All I can say is get a reworked, Savage or Remington, or better yet get a Panda or a Bat, sit it beside a Enfield and see which one you can operate the fastest. You may be suprised. The pushing on the bolt to get the bolt to cosk and close, will slow down opperation more than you think. This is why competition guns do use cock on close technology ??? Would you consider a Savage Target action to be a competition Gun? There have been a thousand posts here regarding heavy bolt lift on Savage/Stevens. Aside from paying big bucks to T&T an action wouldn't the Savage benefit from cocking on closing rather than performing both unlock & cock upon bolt lift? Speaking for myself & evidently many others here, I'm more interested in ease than speed particlarly when trying to keep my cross hair on target :)
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotcha
Would you consider a Savage Target action to be a competition Gun?
Yes I do, in the 600 and 1000 yard benchrest, and F class Savage guns do very well. In the point blank field I feel that a Savage is every bit as competitive as a Bat or a Panda, but theyr is harly anyone will to try this out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotcha
Aside from paying big bucks to T&T an action ...
Wow, I didnt't realize that $125.00 is big money. I think that when you end up with an action that is compairible with a $1300 dollar action for the cost of the Savage action, and a T&T I would say that it is small potatos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gotcha
Aside from paying big bucks to T&T an action wouldn't the Savage benefit from cocking on closing rather than performing both unlock & cock upon bolt lift?
Why would it? Every enfield I have ever felt had a hard bolt closing, in the last section of the stroke, this is due to cocking the bolt. How is this smooter or faster?
All I can say is this; if cocking on closing is so much better why is Enfield , and only a few small other military rifles they only ones using it? The technology has been around at least 100 years. Name one highly accurate rifle that is made with a cock on closing system?
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
The British could fire 2 or 3 rounds from their C.O.C SMLE for every one round from the C.O.O. k98. Not only because of COC but because the SMLE held twice as many rounds as the k98 held meaning less time loading.
The Germans were convinced that the British trenches were filled with machine guns when in fact it was just Tommies doing their Mad Minute drill with their SMLE's.
COC also helps with primary extraction.
I see no advantage in COC for a non-military weapon.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Mad Minute drill.
Mad minute was a pre-World War I term used by British riflemen during training to describe scoring 15 hits onto a 12" round target at 300 yd within one minute using a bolt-action rifle (usually a Lee-Enfield or Lee-Metford rifle). It was not uncommon during the First World War for riflemen to greatly exceed this score. Many riflemen could average 30+ shots, while the record, set in 1914 by Sergeant Instructor Alfred Snoxall was 38 hits.[1] It was rumored that a company of assaulting German soldiers reported that they had faced machine gun fire, while in fact it was a rifle squad of ten men firing at this rate.
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
They knew how to shoot! Bet that was rough on the head and shoulders...
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
The British .303 isnt a very potent cartridge compared to the German 8x57 or American .30-06 and in the heavy Lee rifle recoils is not excessive.
El Lobo
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
my dad was involved in ww2 not ww1 but i can tell you he was real tough had eyes like an eagle and could shoot. all my respect to those guys!!
bob
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
This is probably why a savage is about 50% the price of a kimber ;D
Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
While off topic, before WW1 the Brits designed a new rifle to replace the old SMLE. they called it the P14. American makers tooled up to make them. When it looked like we were going to war the P14 was chambered in .30-06 and called the P-17. Because we were tooled up and in production for mass manufacture the US issued the P-17. More P-17 were in the hands of American soldiers in WW1 than 03 Springfields. The P-17's were on the mauser pattern and very strong. England was geared up for SMLE production so they kept that as thier service rifle and never adopted the P-14. Many P-17 were converted to hunting rifles. My first .30-06 was one. Lost it in a house fire much to my sorrow.
El Lobo