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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
The OP asked what I'd ask Savage to improve upon.
I answered with what I'd like to see.
Will any of the suggestions made throughout this thread find their way to the production line? Who knows.
I do know I'd love to buy a new copy of a 40's-50's Savage 99 and a modernized LH 1920.
You guys would too, admit it! ;)
Don't worry guys, there will always be 110's of some kind for you guys to fettle over. ;D
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.
Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}
Kevin
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
your ar-15 has barrel nut for a quick change barrel option, I guess one of the expensive rifles with barrel nut would be Tubb rifle its like 5K+
http://www.davidtubb.com/davidtubb/c...9/RifleTAC.jpg
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraftmech76
Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.
Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}
Kevin
Wow, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
That is the most hideous device I've ever seen.
It's a joke right?
April Fools early?
Wow!
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
How about these guys? Do they qualify as high end? They have a barrel nut and a floating bolt head.
http://www.shilen.com/productsCompleteRifles.html
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaqam
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aircraftmech76
Nobody but Savage is putting a nut on their medium and high end rifles, only the less expensive models are starting to sport them.
Not any more: http://dimensionrifle.tcarms.com/#{"p":"0"}
Kevin
Not a joke. I'm not hot on the aesthetics on that stock; it's definitely gonna have to go. If Boyd's would come out with an inlet for it, I think you might see it take off...
Kevin
Wow, I just threw up in my mouth a little.
That is the most hideous device I've ever seen.
It's a joke right?
April Fools early?
Wow!
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I happen to like the barrel nut and bolt face. The floating bolt face does help with accuracy. It's the reason I'm not taking my bolt to get it trued. It doesn't matter. I don't mind not having a one piece bolt. What savage is doing works well.
What I would like to see is tighter tolerances throughout and better fit with bolt to action. I want a true magnum action. Maybe same design but thicker overall with thicker recoil lug and action lugs. Thicker action lugs would be better with all their long actions
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
We all here have stated what we'd like to see them do and we're all entitled to our opinion. I just disagree with you that there's enough demand in the high end market for Savage to see fit to make a rifle in the same price class as a Kimber, Winchester etc. No one said you couldn't build an accurate rifle with a shouldered barrel. It's just quicker and easier to do with a nutted barrel. I don't view it as "cheaper" in a sense that it's a bad thing. I view it as ease of manufacturing. And as for bolts, I can't think of any bolt action except Ruger and probably the custom actions that have a true one piece bolt. Well Montana Rifle Co. might since Ruger casts their receivers and probably the bolts too for them. Even Winchester's bolt handle is a seperate piece that's pressed onto splines on the rear of the bolt body. Remington has a seperate bolt head and handle. They're brazed on to the bolt body. However, I too have never bought the whole floating bolt head contributing to accuracy and here's why. If the lug recesses are off a little and the bolt head tilts slightly to get full lug contact, then the bolt face is not square with the chamber anymore, thus putting a slight angle of pressure against the cartridge.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsaqam
Most accurate rifles being shot today have a shouldered barrel and and a solid bolt so I don't buy that a floating bolthead and a nutted barrel are the only way to get accuracy.
You're right, a nutted barrel doesn't help accuracy, but it doesn't hurt it either, it simply makes it easier to change barrels, it requires little to no gunsmithing knowledge to do it (just a nut wrench, action vise and some go no go gauges and you're good to go), shouldered barrels almost require a gunsmith to change the barrel, most people with shouldered barrels stick with one, but with a savage you can change between several barrels relatively easily and quickly and shoot just as accurately with each barrel as someone with their shouldered barrel rifle.
I don't think you understand the idea behind the floating bolthead, the reason the "most accurate" rifles don't have a floating bolthead is because they are either made out of custom actions that are trued when they are made (some custom actions even come with a floating bolthead, take a look at bighorn custom actions), or the actions are bought as factory actions and trued by a smith. The reason the floating bolthead is so special is because with it, you're not required to true an action, the floating bolthead is rigid enough to withstand pretty much any recoil, but it allows enough movement to allow consistent headspacing and allows the locking lugs to fully contact the receiver, which is basically what truing accomplishes.
Sure, you may not "need" a floating bolthead or barrel nut, but these features are what makes Savage rifles user friendly and as accurate as any custom action out there.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by efm77
However, I too have never bought the whole floating bolt head contributing to accuracy and here's why. If the lug recesses are off a little and the bolt head tilts slightly to get full lug contact, then the bolt face is not square with the chamber anymore, thus putting a slight angle of pressure against the cartridge.
Exactly!
I also do not agree that $1000 is a high end gun.
Who here would buy a modern version of the 1920 if the price were comparable to a Kimber 84?
Maybe not enough people have seen or held a 1920 to realize how sweet that rifle is.
Same with the Kimber 84.
Carry a 6.5 lb rifle all day and tell me it wasn't much more pleasant than carrying an 8.5 lb rifle.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
So if I don't agree with you I just haven't seen or held enough quality rifles right ::)
If I want a light weight Savage I'll just get a model 11 lightweight hunter. Savage has built a reputation for building accurate rifles so there is just no proof that a barrelnut or floating bolt head have a negative impact on accuracy. They may not make a rifle any more accurate but they sure don't hurt.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
The Savage LWH is IMO exactly how NOT to do a LW.
Short barrel, laminate stock with slots in it, lightening cuts on the receiver, extensive fluting and so forth.
I prefer at least a 22" barrel, fiber/Kevlar stock, and an action designed from the outset to be a LW rifle.
Have you ever carried a Kimber for a few days? Or a 1920?
I thought for many many years that an 8.5 or 9 lbs. rifle was perfectly satisfactory until I got my Kimber.
After carrying this sub 6.5 lbs rifle (all up, fully loaded) it will be very hard to enjoy carrying 9 lbs again.
my 7.8 lbs 700 KS even became expendable and I loved that rifle. Until the Kimber arrived that is.
The LW rifle market is expanding and new companies are joining the fray. Forbes comes to mind. Savage could have a piece of that market if they desired to do so but the LWH just isn't going to cut it with the LW crowd.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
i'd like for Savage and all other gunmakers to quit charging extra money for a gun with a heavy barrel, it takes less time and less tooling than a sporter barrel.
As far as the other on going discussion that Savage should copy an 84 kimber....why would they? I've had, shot, and lugged around more than one 84 and I cant seem to find anything they trump on a lightweight hunter. Most Kimbers I've shot will shoot somewhere in the 1" range as will the
savage (savage usually does a little better than the kimbers). They both weigh about the same ( around 6.5lbs). Both have adjustable triggers. The only real trump I can see is that the Savage is about 400 less. Truth is that no matter what Savage does to their rifles, if you pay the same for a Savage as you do for a Kimber in a rifle intended and aimed at the same goal everyone is still gonna say "for that kinda money, you could've bought a Kimber".
To me a rifle is intended to carry, shoot, and hit what your aiming at and if I can do it better for 400 less, thats what I'm gonna do. Savage may not have the prestige or be as photogenic as Kimber, but I didnt think it was a beauty pageant.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
IMO most Savage stocks are ergonomically unsuited to ME. As is their balance.
Can't think of one I lifted and said "this feels perfect".
Every Kimber I've hefted balanced and felt perfectly designed for me.
Before you tell me to get a Kimber, they don't make LH rifles because they are making so many RH rifles that they don't have the capacity to add a lefty line.
The original Kimber of Oregon did make a lefty and I found one in 6x47 and paid too much for it. The minute I lifted it I knew I found my rifle. After a bit of use I decided that it was a bargain at $1000.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
1. Fix Ejection Issues
2. Produce better stock, something similar to a Medalist or at least a Duramaxx.
3. Quit messing with the damn barrel nut, action spacings and bolt release locations. quit, quit, quit, quit, quit, quit, quit, quit.
4. Better quality control on tapping the scope base holes centered on the action, I have several with this problem. its a PIA
P.S. did I mention quit messing with the action spacing and bolt release locations. quit, quit, quit, quit, quit,
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I think they should just sell barreled actions. I dont own a centerfire rifle of any manufacture that has an original factory stock, except a few AR-15s.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Im not gonna tell you to get a kimber,lol. I'd rather tell you to buy a savage and have a stockmaker custom build you a stock that fits you perfectly. You would then probably have your favorite rifle.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I have a nutless PacNor #2 SS 26" 280AI barrel on my old 111 action (my first brand new rifle and first lefty 25-30 years ago) and it sits in a McMillan Savage Classic stock with standard fill so I have a high quality rifle with a top tier barrel and stock.
I loved this rifle and was perfectly happy carrying it. Until I got the Kimber that is.
I still love the Savage, it holds a special place in my heart, but now it only gets used when I'm not going to be walking more than a hundred yard.
No, I believe that I'll never be too excited about an 8 lbs rifle again.
For the LR stuff 10-12 lbs is better and for everything else sub 7 lbs is great with 6 lbs being better.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Good heavens, and I thought I vented too much about Boyds stocks. Like many I cant afford a Kimber. Whatever game I shoot doesnt care what rifle was used. I am 75 and I carry an 8.5 lb .35 Whelen around all day with no fatigue. Makes me wonder what the younger generation has been doing that they cant handle an 8.5 lb rifle. For three yrs I carried a 9 lb M1 around. Must have made me musclebound.
El Lobo
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ellobo
Good heavens, and I thought I vented too much about Boyds stocks. Like many I cant afford a Kimber. Whatever game I shoot doesnt care what rifle was used. I am 75 and I carry an 8.5 lb .35 Whelen around all day with no fatigue. Makes me wonder what the younger generation has been doing that they cant handle an 8.5 lb rifle. For three yrs I carried a 9 lb M1 around. Must have made me musclebound.
El Lobo
My savage weights a total of 10lbs and I have no problem carrying it. Before I got my savage I carried around a 6.5lbs rifle (ruger lightweight), even though it is more pleseant, I would rather have my savage tack driver that I have complete faith in, I can walk just as many miles with the savage as with the ruger.
I'm not going to be like the keeki, I am going to recommend you get a kimber and lose a savage, it seems you dislike just about every aspect of a savage and the only reason you keep one is for "sentimental" value.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Kimber won't make me a lefty because they're selling more RH rifles than they can produce and don't have the capacity.
That should tell you something about the market for a superb LW rifle.
There are several things about Savages I don't like and if you're honest with yourself there are things you don't like about Savage.
How many people heap praise on the IM stock?
How about the ejector issue?
The bottom bolt release garners plenty of criticism.
So do the rough barrels.
I support Savage because since 1958 Savage has supported we lefties. That means something to me but they are far from perfect.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I was honest, I posted on page two of this thread about what I would like to see from Savage (kill off the axis brand and bring back the stevens, make a stevens left hand rifle, and fix the obnoxiously heavy bolt lift). It just seems to me that you dislike almost every aspect of the Savage (don't care for a floating bolthead/barrel nut, dont like the way they build lightweight rifles, dont like their weight, their ergonomics, don't like the balance, don't seem to like their modern offerings very much as you want them to go back to their vintage stuff) I'm just trying to get you to be honest with yourself, why do you buy savage rifles other than them supporting us lefties? What made me buy a savage rifle, other than it being lefty (my local gunshop had plenty of lefty guns to choose from, such as remmy's, tikka's, etc.), is that they offered so many great features that i found the other rifles were lacking, and it was in my new favorite caliber.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
Never said I didn't like the floating bolthead. Merely said that the floating bolthead doesn't compensate for misalignment of the locking lug abutments as is often claimed. You're right that I hate the barrel nut, always have but I'd use one if I didn't have the capability to thread and chamber barrels in my basement but I do. Once fitted a shouldered barrel can be swapped out with no gauges required so for me I see no advantage to the barrel nut.
I'd love to see a new high quality 99 from Savage and I'd say that many
Folks here feel the same.
I don't want Savage to make a 1920 like they did in the 20's but would like to see something from them in the spirit of the original LW bolt gun, the 1920 but with modern ergos, and features.
IMO a modern 1920 would outsell the LWH 10 to 1 even if it were 50% more expensive.
Many of you swap barrels and stocks onto your Savage to make it suit your needs better.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
You're points are valid, a lot of us do change our stocks and barrels on our savage rifles, I'm going to switch out my stock once my stockade stick comes in, and if you have the ability to change barrels that don't have barrel nuts, then a barrel but won't mean anything to you, my point about that was you don't need gunsmithing experience to change a barrel, and it doesn't affect accuracy.
I should have explained the benefits of a floating bolthead better. First, allowing both lugs to contact the receiver more consistently better distributes the recoil on the lugs, thus you can use the same bolt for an incredibly wide range of calibre. It also makes changing calibers easier since you only need to change the bolt head as opposed to replacing the entire bolt. Lastly it allows for the rounds to better align with the barrel, which is what contributes to savage rifles being so accurate, and holds this alignment before, during and after the round is fired, again contributing to savages accuracy. I would throw out the remington msr and bighorn remington clone action as prime examples of high end rifles and actions that use the floating bolthead due to its benefits, I sure as heck can't think of a drawback to the floating bolthead.
I too would like to see the 99 offered again, I would buy one if it was, but to me a stevens left hand rifle is more important, there aren't many affordible left hand rifles, if any at all.
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Re: What would you ask Savage to improve?
I'd like to be able to buy a LH Stevens for $300 solely for the action and the non-accutrigger.
They don't put the AT on the Stevens do they?