The test stock had the lug beded already, so the fit was nice and tight. I will secure when I bed the action, or at least that's the plan.
Does the barrel need to be head spaced prior to bedding the action?
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The test stock had the lug beded already, so the fit was nice and tight. I will secure when I bed the action, or at least that's the plan.
Does the barrel need to be head spaced prior to bedding the action?
As long as no part of the barrel and nut are not interfering with the stock then it shouldn't make a difference. The nut should be torqued to make sure the lug is in correct position. Also after the barrel is head spaced correctly a free float check must pass or more channel material must be removed to fit the action in the bedding where it belongs.
As far as the lug bedding in the "test" action, might be best to re-bed because when the action is torqued in the new pillars it is most likely going to move a little. Removing a little from the old bedding should be enough. Then installing the action and snuggling it down will make a perfect fit.
The fear has settled. Pillars came out just like they should. So on to the next step. I ruffed up the areas that beds to action and lug. Taped off the front and sides of the lug. Play-doe in the voids. Kiwi shoe polish on everything that might touch the Devcon 10110 bedding. Used a Velcro wire tie to hold action in place. Clean up with mineral spirits. Just a small amount of squeeze out, so I think i used the right amount, which can not be said of the amount I mixed up. Way to much, at least there is enough for the real thing. I was really surprised how little was in the jars, they were only filled up about 1/3 of the volume in the jars.
Here are progress pictures.
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Looks good Doug,
My impatience had me pull em apart too early in the past. Now I wait two or three days. I always keep the leftover mix to follow its hardness. If you pull it apart to early it might distort or even take out material that it should not. (Been there).
When the time comes back out the studs and whack the barrel with a rubber mallet. The kiwi polish should do it's job.
The first couple are scary but my bet is yours is going to come out great!
Ok so the leftovers are still pliable but that's ok because I got to play with my new barrel. Here are first mock ups.
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at first looks not too much of channel needs to be opened up, something I have never done. Words from others who have I am all ears. Need to look at sockets, maybe dermal drum sanding wheel. Plan to finish out test tomorrow.
1:10 Twist 5R Groove, 11 Degree Crown, Matte finish, cryo'ed 25' .270 win, 416R stainless steel, light puma.
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If you use deepwell sockets wrapped with 320 sandpaper it shouldn't take much work to get you close. Finish with a finer grit (600). You might need the dremel with a drum possibly in the barrel nut area but most likely not. Go slow with the "socket" sander and check with a paper strip often for full float.
Of coarse you can't get started until you headspace the barrel and tighten down the action.
As mentioned before the lack of patience often gets us in a bind. But your progress so far
combined with patience is going to leave you with a nice end result!
Hope others would join in and offer more of their expertise.
I used a drum sander, keeping it away from the edges, to speed up opening the channel. Then I used deep sockets and a broom handle(ha ha) with 100 grit. I opened mine up to 1.1" for a bull barrel, lots-O-dust.
On the triggers, I have one three screw. Without the wire installed, it still has more than a 2 pound trigger. I need to order an RB for it.
Nice build, I like the updates.
I just used a 5/8" wooden dowel and wrapped 100 grit sandpaper around it to bring it up to about an 1" and started sanding.... doesn't take too long either... One thing I will say is you have to switch hands that you're sanding with every so often, otherwise the channel gets a little out of uniform (too much off one side and not enough on the other)... after you get it where you want just make sure to put some true oil (or similar) on it to seal it up.
I am already putting up my pennies and reading up on this. Leaning towards Sav2 in silver.
Mailgal gal brought this to the house
Lambeth / Savage from PT&G.
Getting rid of the "e" of my 110e Build
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Now back to to the test.
Ran into my first hiccup. Wished I had read this thread:
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...-Mixing-Ratios
The Devcon 10110 does not have a mix ratio on the box or paperwork. The devcon liquid steel used for the pillars has a ratio of 1-1. This is what I mixed up for the bedding.
WRONG.
It's 5-2 in volume and 9:1 by weight.
Mnbodboy2 has been talking importance of patience when bedding but when my leftover epoxy went into 48 hours and were still very pliable, I got suspicious. Up the fist mistake. This is why we run a tests first. I"lol get it right the second time. I do not think this mix will ever set...
So I removed the action and all was not so good. I feel that if the mix was right it would have been ok. Some of the soft putty stayed with the action. Cleaned right up with mineral spirits. The voids in the picture was what stuck to the action, I hope a result of the sticky mis-mix and my application of the shoe polish release agent.
???
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We learn the most from our mistakes. Sorry you are facing a cleanup.
Thanks for sharing, I’ve mentally cataloged this as a “what not to do”. Probably saved a few others from this mistake down the road too!
Doug,
I feel very bad for you. But you are right, if the mix was on the results would have been good. The nice complete fill at the lug is one thing you are looking for.
Use a nice sharp wood chisel from the sides to "carve" away the soft bedding. Use care not to pry on the wood on the top.
It shouldn't take too long to clean it all out. Clean as much release agent out as you can before you start digging out the epoxy. Others on here may know what works best to "cut" the Kiwi. Trying not to end up with it on the cleaned up area.
Your second batch and go around should be less "stressfull".
It looks like the pillar ended up where it should so the action must have been where it belonged. (Btw that was my biggest concern with your Velcro wire tie method).
The second batch may be a thicker mix so it may take more pressure to get the action down in the goop.
Hope I haven't been too critical. We are all rooting for your sucess.
Maybe I am making a zebra action...[IMG]https://s8.postimg.cc/cl12n4os5/IMG_1695.jpg[/IMG]
Now on to the real deal. My first plan of attack is to do the pillars. After this I am thinking that is when I set head space. At this point I can finish opening up the forearm, which has been started. I am doing it by hand slowly.
Does this seem seem like a logical plan?
Yes Sir glad to contribute what not to do. I am not sweeting the clean up because I am not concerned with the test stock, I was glad I still had it around to practice on it. You never get everything right the fist time you try something, now if if get it wrong, well that won't say much about me.
I am here for the critique, so keep it coming you have been a great help.
I will make sure to get nuts and washers when it's time to bed the real stock. I could not find any 28" 1/4" nuts in my bin. Home Depot did not have anything in 28, thread, but I will be on the look out.
Regarding this, there seems to be some thought that you do not want to add any stress in the action, so how tight do you want the action to stock connection to be when bedding the action?
Doug, your "test" stock may surprise the crap out of you! That bedding job that "almost" worked looked like that action would be snug as a bug in a rug. Your next range session will have you smiling.
I had to dig out two, one that I pulled too soon and one that was not set deep enough. Trying to paraphrase Rusty " we still are learning and we are learning from you too."
Was not set deep enough? Explain.
The thick epoxy held it away from where it was supposed to be. That was before I used studs and was using only "snugged" up action screws. I should have known better because the barrel road high in the channel.
Front action screw pillar prepped.
Squaring of the endss
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then I used my case chamfer tool to clean up the edges
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tapping out the 11/32" hole.
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Found out my screw driver is great to screw in the pillar.
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Stud has 4 or so threads exposed and not protruding through action
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rear pillar cut and epoxy drying.
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I have my fingers crossed.
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i had to recut studs so that I had good threads on both ends
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got the two 1/4x28 nuts and washers
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After lots of fitting everything is free floated except for the pillars
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5 to 2. Sample spoons used for measuring
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applied to stock. I am a little concerned that I had enough due to minimal squeeze out.
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we will see. This has been consuming me! I can't wait to have her all back together and send some pills down range.
Each reciever radii by the action screws and the lug area are the most important areas to fill. The areas along the sides are less important and less than 100% fill can be "patched" in later for cosmetic reasons. We have our fingers crossed for you. Every thing is pointing to success!
Doug,
Your photos are a great tool for others. I have learned from them as well. The taping of the tang and barrel are a big plus for ending up with clearances that shouldn't need much additional work when finished. Thanks for the tip.
Pretty sure it would bond, as long as not messed up with Kiwi.
You would probably just be filling slight gaps that show up as ug-a-bug near the top of the stock. Piece of cake once you get that far.
Things are looking good. The left over epoxy is setting up, so no sticky mess this go around!
The good.
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the bad
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voids in the lug.
Can it be skimmed or do you float the whole action out? It seems like if I built it up it could add stresses or am I just over thinking this.
one side is perfect cast, the other not so much.
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?..???? It does feel solid without any action screws, but still masked.
Really hard to tell how much contact the back of the lug is making with the bedding. If it is only contacting at the bottom of the lug it is worth considering a re-do of that area.
If it was mine I would carve out the lug area and do that area over. The new mix should be "thin" so that the excess flows down & forward. The coverage at the pillar area looks perfect.
Goal would to avoid excess squeezing in that area.
The left side if not visible with the action in the stock probably will have no adverse consequence. A simple "skim" coat in that area will fill it in and the excess should squeeze out easily.
My opinion said it is pretty good for a first try.
Hopefully someone else will offer another solution or two.
been seeing that you can hone out (spelling?) and do sections. I think it only needs the lug area, there's plenty of room in front of lug for squeeze to run off to without effecting the action area which is good.
When you "hog" out the lug area probably a good idea to remove all that is under the lug and cut grooves on the sides to make sure new epoxy has a place to go. The tape on the bottom and sides of lug will stop the flow if the material is left there. You probably already know and have planned for that.
One more dap of epoxy should have done it. Copy that on cleaning out the sides and bottom, which had a great fit. It is at the top of the lug you can see the voids. I get this right and I think I am in the game.
I run a layer of tape around the edge and forward portion of the recoil lug. I’ve also just skim bedded like that using jb weld without issue.
It cleaned up nicely. I went with the epoxy yesterday. I had to snug up on the studs which may not be good, but I have relaxed them, again not much squeee out which points in a good direction. I am gonna get this thing bedded if it takes me the whole pound of epoxy.
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Success!
FITS LIKE A GLOVE!
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There is a indention on the front of the lug at the barrel nut. I hope the ones who have been through this advise if I should clean that up.
is it worth skimming the rough side? Or is this just cosmetic?
I think after a couple more days of epoxy curing you should be ready to shoot it! The savage lugs always leave an indent there. Your after market lug (probably pinned) wont. It certainly won't make a difference with the tiny bit left unfilled.
I looked on here a couple of times today hoping that you would be smiling! Glad to see it.
Later,
Randy
Thanks Randy. I feel like it is gonna do it's job and not be a negative. I did the front action screw set then the rear and release the front and watch for movement. None. Well that I could see. No magnet micro measuring tools. By it fits like a glove.
Doug,
Answering your other question, a quick fill of the voids on the sides might make it look better. If everything is still taped up it wouldn't take long and an overnighter of curing should take care of it. Before you remove the action a trimming of the excess spill over with an exacto knife, razor blade or box cutter should keep it from tearing as the action comes back out. When it is fully cured it can be sanded smooth.
I will skim it out before it is finished but I may try to get it back together in time for the weekend trip to the lease. Need to plant fall clover and we have rain. Then again we have rain and I need to be patient. I am just so glad it come out like it has so far. I am, sure it will out shoot me.
Ok so I started to reassemble the action. Got the mag box back on. Slid the front tab in and one wack with rubber mallet on a flat head screw driver at an angle at the back tab and bam, right back in place. All going good.
So on to the trigger. I see how it all goes back together, it I just can't get the sear spring under tension back into place. Searched here looking for a trick I am not thinking of. Found someone saying to remove the trigger from the assembly. I did this, still no luck. I am using a slave pin from the opposite side but just can't get it all lined up with the spring in the right location. What am I missing?
Taking a break to let my blood pressure to drop. What am I missing?
Here is a link. Pictures are towards the end. Squeeze the spring in place with your thumb at its center push the pin in to capture the center of the spring. Steer it in by pushing against the slave.
Key is squeezing it in just far enough to get it started.
http://www.savageshooters.com/showth...0-trigger-assy
Got it Randy. I have a bum pointer finger that I can not bend so my dexterity sucks in my hands, besides being lefty which is tuff in a right handed world. I finally put the action in a vise and I used a pen to push the spring and finally the pin went all the way in. This build is a great way to get to know this riffle. I had took the wire spring off so now I will need to reset the triger. This will be good practice since I ordered a new Timeny today on sale. Let the fun continue!
oh good link, that's the one I had found and got me to remove the triger. Also found a good YouTube video which provide the plan off attack.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RdolzpycRiw
Glad you got it Doug. The link from Billpa is a good one, he is one sharp guy. I've learned a bunch from his posts.
The video you posted is also very informative. I recall someone blasting a similar video because they put the pin in from the "wrong" side. I have my own ideas on that. Sometimes the pin will "walk" away from home position while in use and eventually stop when it encounters the stock. If the pin is inserted like in the video one that walks that direction would stay in place. The opposite would be true if the walking was the other direction.
If no walking out is evident then the pins head should be on the spring side (as in Billpa's pics). This is because if it walked to the left it could possibly release the sear spring.
Don't worry about changing it if you went with the video's direction. But keep an eye on it next time you remove the stock to see if the pin is moving.
Also the video mentioned the bushing he lost. I can only remember seeing one or two. I am not sure but I don't think Savage even uses them anymore. Someone who tears apart new guns will know.
Good shooting if you get out this weekend.
I had been at first tring to place pin starting on the spring side, but got it in from the other side. I believe that is the way it was when I removed it. I did have a bushing in the spring and it was giving me fits tring to keep it inside of the spring eye.
I will keep an an eye on it. Make sense what you say about it walking.
Got her all back together!
First I resurfaced the action face.
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After
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Sanded with 500 grit.
Then I went to hobby lobby and got .039 music wire and replaced the triger spring. I works great. I do not have a pull scale, but it is noticeably lighter. Gonna cancel the ordered timney. $99 price difference. Wire was $1.07 and have enough for 20 or so triggers..
Here is a side. Y side of the spring wire
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The only thing I might do right away is bed the dmz grim reaper one piece scoope base. The rubbing suggest to me that it is not quite solid in connection. What does the nut club think?
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Here is the finish product. Looks like I might to get to shoot her tomorrow!
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weighs in right at 8.25 pounds.
Good luck Doug. I hope it shoots as good as it looks.
That looks fantastic! You might bed the base, can’t hurt.
She shoots too
50 yards.
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