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260 lapua brass runs .014-.015 neck thickness so lets say your brass is on the thick side...015...that would be .030+.264=.294 so with your .293 bushing your only going to have .001 neck tension....not enough IMHO after you factor in spring back. ive had my best results using .002 to .003 neck tension so if i was you i would order .292 .291 .290 bushings as well...or better yet just get a lee collet neck sizing die and a few extra mandrels and polish the mandrels down to the appropriate sizes. the reason i say this is because unless you ordered a tight neck chamber for your 260 a fired neck is going to be about .297 .298 so youll be sizing down any where from .005 to .008 and the bushing may cause doughnuts...it did in my nosler brass and my lapua brass...i just started using the LCD and will most likely never use my bushing dies again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy13
Hotolds, thanks. I'm trying to keep as much local as I can.
Good to know LongRange. I was wondering about that as well.
Looking all the reamer prints I have seen so far, I haven't seen anything with a tighter neck that .297. So I was a little confused about it too.
I'm assuming you would want about .001 maybe .002 in the chamber for clearance.
The bushing I went with was recommended by many, but I will certainly be ready to try different sizes if needed.
Thanks for the post!
Barrel finally came in.
Working on load development now.
Looking forward to getting out and running this thing on some long range steel.
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2unzbwrg.jpg
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/...ps78fijszg.jpg
Outstanding, great looking stick
Scope just went back to Vortex. It was not holding zero durring recoil. I was loosing a 1/10 or 2 of elevation per shot and some windage. It wasn't consistent enough to predict it. And I chased it a bit thinking it was just harmonics. I would start to shoot a half inch group then erratically throw a flier high or low. I borrowed a scope to test against and finally got to see a <1/2 MOA group.
Now I can work up a load and get crackin!
So far my loading has worked out well. I'm using the lapua brass with a .293 Bushing neck die. I have 200 pieces that I have fired once now. I'm truing the primer pockets and will probably anneal after another firing.
I created a test round by cutting the neck on a piece of brass vertically. So that a bullet can slide in and out. It's tight enough that I can barely pull the bullet out with my hand. I drop it in the chamber then close the bolt and remove. Now I can take that to the Forster seating die and set the exact length off the lands. The Forster die seems to be fairly accurate. The micro dial is nice too. I have tried 3 different bullet profiles. I've taken notes in my notebook for each COAL to the lands using the test round.
I'm planning on doing some more recon on an accuracy node now that I have working glass. I'll post some more pics when I get some data soon.
I forgot to post my build experience.
I purchased the tools and a barrel nut/ accuracy lug from NSS.
My criterion barrel took a while, so I ordered an Appachie Gun works as well.
I started with the action wrench and installed in a vice.
Started the barrel into the action and then closed the bolt on a .243 go gauge. (Speced by forster)
Screwed the barrel in until it hit a hard stop on the go gauge.
Tightened the barrel nut with the wrench and tightened to 40 foot pounds.
I tested with the go gauge and then a piece of new lappua brass after everything was tight.
With the correct tools, this felt idiot proof.
I then took the go gauge to my reloading press and use it to measure on a Hornady headspace gauge to set my headspace on full length sizing.
Although recommended to size the new brass the first time, I was pleased to measure them and find they were all perfect when using this method.
To anyone wanting to build their first performance rifle, do yourself a favor and spend the extra upfront or borrow the correct tools. If nothing else, it build confidence when firing that first round.
So what went on with that scope??? I bought my Viper PST FFP 4-16x50 a while back and so I guess I better get my build done before I find out its bad too!
Definetly right on the correct tools part. I hope you used Moly lube or something on that barrel. Its not coming back off otherwise...or maybe it will and that just applys with SS barrel on SS action. :)
Vortex took great care of me. We found a faulty tube was the issue and they replaced it as quickly as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by lrshooting
Issues can happen, no matter the manufacturer. It's what happens after the issue that defines character.
I don't think any other manufacturer could have done any better. So for that I am thankful.
I finally have a load dialed in, 139grn scenars over 42 grains H4350 in Lapua brass.
Once I shoot some groups, I'll post up some pics. So far my best is about 1/3" at 100 yards and .75" at 300.
I'm looking forward to some long range action to see how she fairs.
Were sorry you lost the race due to our faulty tires. To show how serious we are were going to give you a whole new set for the next race.
And if those fail we will stand behind them also. Maybe its just me, but i just dont get that logic.
Got to take this thing out to a PRS Match this week end and it was incredible!
Any time I had my sights where they were supposed to be, I got my hits. There were some challenging shooting positions and time constraints that kept me a little humble...
But the rifle performed better than I had ever hoped. I have been shooting competition with pistol carbine and shotgun for a while. It seems like I always have some gun issues to work out before it proves to be reliable.
I did learn a valuable lesson about trigger being set too light. Trying to engage a spinner, I was slamming the bolt home and locking out the trigger. (I guess it's a feature of the accutrigger to prevent ND's) So now I have that adjusted and besides forgetting to dial my DOPE I have nothing else that could have prevented getting my hits.
yobuck, I guess I don't quite understand your point of view either. If my steak isn't cooked correctly I am certainly not going to through a tantrum and demand that someone fix it right away.
I would be as respectful and polite as possible and if they didn't jump at the chance to resolve my issue I would keep my trap shut and just not return.
In regards to my scope issue, I approached in a similar fashion. My intention was not to slander or impune the reputation of vortex but rather give them the opportunity to make things right.
I have first hand knowledge of Leupold mark 4 optics as well as US optics having similar issues. So to expect perfection while admirable is not realistic. It is my humble opinion that it is how someone acts in a crisis is what defines him. My statements about Vortex were geared toward my satisfaction with their action.
Now to complain about the product choice? I believe I am still out of options for the criteria I wanted and the price point I get with this optic. My next best choice to stay with a Horus style reticent is 150% the price to start and over 200% in many cases. and Bushnell on top of that. Nothing against Bushnell but I doubt I would get the same customer service experience, not to mention better. Again nothing against Bushnell. I have actually used their customer service before and everything was adequate.
Now don't for a second thing I wasn't disappointed or even upset. But me crying over spilled milk was not worth the time. Regardless of who spilled the milk, Vortex was never pointing a finger or even insinuating that it was my fault. They just wanted to fix the issue.
I could also talk about my negative experience with Jim at NSS. but I'm not sure what good it would do, and I will most likely order another barrel from him. So just complaining for the sake of hearing my head rattle is not a top priority of mine.
So to summarize, I don't really think complaining to everyone about Vortex's product line would have solved anything. I really don't have another option in that price point so I feel like it is worth the effort to see it though. You may have other feelings and are entitled to them.
To everyone here, I thank you for the assist over the last few months. This has been a very positive experience. I promise to get some groups posted.
Well try to see my point of view. Its not a question about somebody taking the steak back and making it right.
Anyway tomorrow or next month you can go get another steak. If you have an equiptment failure at your weekend shoot well
theres 51 more weekends this year. My bag isnt going to a range with my homebrew gun seeing how small a group i can get.
I have 2 weeks out of an entire year to do what i like to do. I have no control over what mother nature decides to do within
that 2 week season. I have no control over other things that might affect my missing an entire season thereby forcing me to wait for another
whole year to do what i own guns for. I also have no control over wether i will even see an animal to shoot at during the time i have to hunt or if so, will it be within range.
What i do have control over is the equiptment i use. Some nice guy telling me he will stand behind a scope that just failed me wont cut it for me.
If it does for you well thats fine, we all have our own way of dealing with things.
So what is your point exactly yo? Do you have a anti-Vortex post somewhere he didn't read. There are a lot of guns out there with Vortex glass on them. Mine has Leupold and recently found it's turrets are'nt calibrated well. Am I sending it back now? No. It's good enough for this hunting season, but I will call and see what their answer will be. I never received a single email back from Burris about a faulty set of mounts. Never using them again. I think the OP has a great point, let the company decide its fate with the response.
Yes i have made my feelings about Vortex known here on several occaisions actually. Admittedly they appear to be a very nice scopeQuote:
Originally Posted by 2scars
with all the bells and whistles of far more expensive brands. Which is why my son bought one.
But the experience has shown thats where the comparison stops.
They (might) be ok on guns with less recoil than the 338x378 this particular scope was used on. But weve not had similar issues with others
including Leupold. Id never owned or needed an inch pound torx driver untill we got this scope. And id never heard about using 2 sets of rings
untill we got this scope. And in my many many years of using scopes id never needed to talk with a factory rep in order to just bore site a scope.
Which led to the purchase of the torx driver by the way. The new normal isnt normal unless we allow ourselves to be convinced that it is.
Its junk, in my opinion at least for our needs. But apperently others feel a lack of quality is fine as long as the warrenty is good. Or the server acts sincere and appoligetic.
My Razor 5-20x50 has been great to me. Tracks with my Dope to the .1 Mil. Been on a number of rifles, has been dropped here and there and worked hard in competitions. Still functions like the day I got it. I'd love a GEN II 4.5-27x56 if I could find one!
Several of us continue to assert the gambling nature of buying overpriced Chinese optics named Vortex. You might win you might not = gambling.Quote:
Originally Posted by yobuck
Due to the agreement in the TPP, my comments have enabled China's Vortex Optics to sue the American taxpayer for millions of dollars for lost revenue.
Thats a whole nuther subject which could probably lead to me getting kicked off this site.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robinhood
But id be handing them an iou explaining that id rather owe it than just plain screw them out of it.
.
Alright guys, I'm at 800 rounds down range and everything is really coming together. I just pushed my scope a little further forward and got rid of some parallax I was chasing.
I decided to upgrade my trigger as well. The accutrigger just isn't reliable as light as I would like to go. The rifle shot a solid 1/3" group at about 100m including the cold bore.
Once I get the trigger installed I'll make it a priority to post up some groups. (Basix Sav-2)
This has been an incredible learning experience and I really appreciate all the support and comments.
100 yards with a cold bore shot 1" circle dot.
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1qhvihhs.jpg
300 yard with a cold bore
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/...psmgvo9pqi.jpg
300 yard about 5 minutes after the above group.
http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/...psbguhcrn5.jpg
I wanted to get out to 550 yards but there was a bit of fog. Visibility was fairly poor.
I'm still getting a little bit of parallax, so I am going to borrow a leupold Mark 6 tomorrow and try some more groups. We shall see how it works out.
I'm currently at 900 rounds and shot another PRS match last week end. This thing hit everything. In fact the only targets I missed where because I had slung up to walk stage to stage and didn't check my windage knob before starting a stage... It had moved almost 2 mils. I'm not sure what other rookie mistakes I have yet to learn, but excited to get them crossed off the list!
Another limitation I had with my Vortex PST was at 900 yards, I could see the target very well, got my hits, but could not call hits for myself or other shooters. The plate was swinging but to me it appeared to be stationary. I'm starting to get the bug for better glass... We shall see how that plays out.
Scope, I personally have a March I am going to sell. If interested, PM your email and I will send pic's and spec's.
Dennis
Jim definately knows his stuff; Northland was great with me. Looks like your build turned out a successQuote:
Originally Posted by CriterionBarrels
***Disclaimer. My intent with this thread was to glean correct information, document the build process for others in my position and document and report on the performance. Hopefully for the next guy that finds himself in the position I was in.
My intent is not to bad mouth any vendor or sell equipment or product for any said vendor or private party.
This thread had been smatteted with comments taking away from my original intent.
Any build choices I have documented have been based on my opinion and I have made every attempt not to deminish other products or vendors.
Please keep this in mind when replying. I understand you may have a pet vendor or a scope your fond of. But please do not try to sell it here. It is not the appropriate place.
MODS, if I have overstepped my place, please see fit to modify this thread anyway you see fit.
Thank you for the opportunity.
At 1200 rounds down range. I just change to a bushnell XRS 4.5-30x50 optic. It has a 34mm tube and seems to be very bright and crisp. I have been playing with some extended range targets, 6" colt speed plate at 1200 yards was fun. I could easily see the dirt kick up on misses as well as the steel target move when impacted.
I'm looking forward to some more groups to see how it performs. I'll post up again when I have some more data. The season is just getting going, so once the nice weather hits, I'm sure I will have tons to update.